What Benefits does an ADS provide?

Hahaha!

So just for clarities sake: if one hangs heavy enough to produce micro tears and the resultant condition is a turtled penis. I just really don’t have a problem with calling that trauma. I’m open for an alternate word however.

Monty, I don’t have a problem calling it that either. That is exactly what a turtled cock is caused by: trauma. But the turtling is a side effect, not a desirable thing to achieve. That is, your gains do not come from turtling and, in fact, a great deal of turtling COULD have a negative impact on gains. Whenever you stretch at ANY intensity there will be trauma, at least a slight amount. Even with an extender. The goal should be to limit trauma while creating as much elongation as possible, not actively pursuing trauma as a desirable thing. That’s all I’m saying.

Roots

I didn’t mean to imply in any way that trauma was something to be sought after. Although when it occurs it can be dealt with by using an ADS to keep the damaged tissues from healing in the regressive state which will end with the unit returning to its original length and more then likely toughened. An ADS prevents all of that. Turtling is something I think all hangers experience on occasion if for no other reason then impatience causing over work.

I’ve stated this before but the other thing that an ADS will prevent is the cause of a plateau of gains due to interruptions in an individuals routine. Many guys don’t understand that when a period of time elapses between hanging sessions, if it is enough time for their particular healing cycle to complete that a plateau will be established and will explain why their gains either slow down or stop altogether. An ADS can act as a time bridge to provide continuous gains even when a break in routine takes place. My statistical records reflected this. With the use of an ADS my gains were consistent per hanging session even after 3 and 4 days of interruption of my routine. If an individual doesn’t use or have an ADS then the only other means to prevent plateau’s is lockstep consistency on a daily basis, but most humans have interruptions in their routines in some way due to life’s demands.

But, not as pronounced as it once was.

I read somewhere turtling after sex is a chemical reaction in the body, so we can’t continue to have sex with a cave woman who may just want to get away from us. Also, turtling in the cold or when stressed is not caused by trauma, but a natural reaction to conserve heat, or give us extra blood to run away, so there needs to be a distinction as to what is causing the turtling.

Right. Turtling is not necessarily a sign of injury; even if it was, it shouldn’t be fought: if your penis turtles, let it go; next time apply less force though.

I have to say that I don’t think it is even required to break fibers to start gains, a light damage could be all you need to start growing.

Monty, I agree with you. I think the degree of toughening we are comfortable with is a decision every PE’er needs to decide for themselves. Moderate to heavy RELATIVE weights (since I started again a week ago, 5 pounds is presently quite heavy to me!) will certainly produce fast gains per unit of time, but this method will also create the most toughening - and toughening will happen no matter what, ADS might help but cannot prevent it, it is your connective tissue’s natural reaction to stress and damage. So hanging relatively heavy will also require the quickest progressive increase in stress to overcome the toughening of the tissue, which in turn will cause more toughening. This also means heavy hanging is the least sustainable practice if you want to keep receiving the quickest rate of permanent elongation.

I do things like you Monty, or I think I do. I hang a relatively moderate to heavy load for a pretty good amount of time (usually six sets per day) and use an ADS just in case. I have seen really quick gains, so I will keep going this way until I stop seeing them or the weights become scary for me. I keep telling myself that if my tissues become too tough I can always decondition by taking a break or switching my angle to shift the primary focus and load-bearing to different tissues. I don’t know if I’m lying to myself. ;)

Maranera, my own practices aside, I tend to agree that any kind of damage above the absolute minimum amount necessary is probably not ideal.

Roots

Yeah I think we’re talking here about turtling after heavy hanging.
Contraction in the cold shouldn’t be called turtling even if it looks the same.

And as far as turtling “shouldn’t be fought” and to “let it go”. That will definitely create consequences you don’t want.

Healing in the turtled state is just asking for reduction in length and a plateau. Scientific fact, sorry!

‘Scientific fact?’. Backup that, I’m all ears. Show me a study that shows that if you don’t fight turtling after hanging your penis will become shorter.

Wow this thread got bigger. I don’t have time to respond to everything but if 20 minute sessions with an extender are worthless, even if done for a cumulative six hours a day, and if one guy is reporting gains from using an extender once a week for an hour, surely the principle of the more extender time the better is null and what should be stressed is maximum time in an extender possible, don’t wory about the cumulative amount of time. This seems to flip on the head what’s been talked about before.

If enough tension is applied to cause remodelling but not to actually lengthen anything, what happens?

‘1 case proves all cases.’ :up:

Don’t feel obligated to respond to everything , this thread wasn’t started by you neither I’m seeing a crowd of people asking you questions. ;)

Hey root, Your on the same track I was talking about 5 lbs as a start up weight. 6 sets a day is great. Your going to see some great results. Now let me give you a little more perspective that might alter your routine a little.

You mentioned changing angles. That is by far the best way to have a complete successful hanging experience. What I ended up doing was using a Bungee cord and anchored it at crotch level. Then from that position (SO) I was able to just twist my hips and wallah! I had instant OTL both left and right. The surprise that I got was that my gains continued without increasing hanging weight. I only maintained that OTL for a minute or two but the effect was really great. It was really cool to see my gains continue and additional weight wasn’t necessary. When my gains did slow down then and only then did I increase my hanging weight.

Now I’m going to give you another surprise that I ran into. I found that I could place my thumb on the side of my shaft between my pelvic bone and the back end of my hanger then twist my hips left or right and I had a “no extra tools” fulcrum applied to my angles. What this did was a further continuation of gains again without a hanging weight increase. What was neat about that approach was that it focused the hanging weight into a very narrow area pinpointing the fulcrum. What I tended to do then was to slide my thumb back and forth and it spread the force over a larger area without any change in position. So now I had not only left, right angles but also left, right angled fulcrums. Now from the base position of SO I’ve got all these variations of pinpoint loading and virtually no tools needed.
This kept me from increasing weight for very long periods. My gains just continued and continued. It was exciting.

This is turning into a re-run of the long standing argument about the precise mechanism that produces gains.

There’s never been agreement on this and until there is arguments about ADS use and rest days will continue on and on and can’t be resolved, all we’re left with are peoples often conflicting experience.

Monty, that is great to hear! I feel like specifically targeting tissues like that in a controlled, progressive manner is the key to continued progress with hanging. I haven’t updated my stats for a while, but before I took this 5 month break I had already gained just over an inch in 7 months all at the BTC angle - my measuring technique might not be perfect, but it is consistent. Now my tissues are deconditioned and I didn’t really lose many of my gains (less than 1/4 inch) and now the 5 pounds feels really, really heavy on there. This, and your response, shows me (at least anecdotally in relationship to myself) that deconditioning happens more or less normally in the penis, and that shifting our focus regarding which penile structures we target can further prolong hanging gains while keeping weight reasonable.

You always hear about guys like Bib hanging 40 pounds, but I want to avoid that if possible, no matter how “conditioned”/tough my tissues get!

Mem, just from the standpoint of permanent tissue elongation, more time in a EACH extender set would be the most beneficial because it would maximize creep or stress relaxation, depending on your extender setup, which are both time-dependent properties. This would be followed by total time per day as there is a direct correlation between total time under traction and permanent elongation.

But, as I’ve said before, the penis seems to be a fickle beast that likes to break all the rules. :)

Also, if enough tension is applied in constant traction of any type to cause remodeling, there will be tissue elongation. Problems arise when you start to significantly exceed the amount of stress required for remodeling. Namely, in order, excessive toughening, injury, loss of entire penis. ;)

Roots

Capernicus, I don’t know that it’s the mechanism in its entirety that we cannot identify, but rather the nuances of that mechanism. Traction has been studied a lot, even in vivo, but never (well not much, and never with quality practices) on the penis. So we know traction works, and what the process looks like in the body, but we still don’t know all the finer points of the process regarding the penis. I think we know a lot of traction methods work: manual stretching with rest days, hanging with progressive loads with no rest days, extending with maximal time, and they all work.

I think this shows you there is more than one way to skin a cat, and PE is no different. Which one is the absolute best? Well we don’t know. What we know about traction forces on the rest of the body tells us that stress relaxation-based methods for the absolute maximum amount of time are the best to produce permanent deformation of connective tissue. Is this true of the penis? We don’t know for sure, but if penile connective tissue works the same way it could be. But a more important question: is this protocol practical or even possible with the penis when circulation and not being a hermit come into play? Probably not.

So what do we do? Well we find something that works for us, do it, and then argue about it on Thundersplace until our fingers hurt! ;)

I wouldn’t have it any other way!

Roots