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Hanging with heavy or light weight?

12

Mod edit: split discussion of light vs.heavy weight out from “Hanging with FIRe” thread

Originally Posted by 32quarters
My understanding:

0.1 mpa is the starting point for adding heat and no heat should be applied below this.
0.17 mpa is the max and is the start of the elastic region and no heat should be applied above this and should try not to apply weight above this. I think his comment was that it is ineffective to work above this point.

0.5 mpa is the start of the plastic region

See post #22:
The characteristics of the tunica albuginea revisited

Hey 32Quarters,

I believe that plastic region is the key. I think that if we can establish that on an individual basis one has an honest, science based shot, at gains. If the 0.5 Mpa based of the load calculator is the start of the plastic region it would make a ton of sense. There are so many old school PE guys that got the 20+ pound and up that made huge gains.

This thread by Shiver actually goes hand and hand with what Bib and several other big gainers experienced with weight. Bib got up to 45 LB (he tested 65 but just to see if the hanger could handle the weight) but that 45 was something he did for a few weeks at best. Let us not forget he used a rice sock as heating source and would heat the first half of all his AM sets.

Deformation: Intensity, Method and Recovery guidelines

The one thing I see that never gets addressed on these boards is that girth plays a very big role in how much weight your penis can handle while hanging. A man with a 140mm placid girth will be able to withstand much more weight than let´s say a man with 100mm girth. So while reading these forums I can understand that it can become overwhelming and in some case misinforming to read the weight disparity from one individual to another without understanding the such a variable. This whole subject needs its own thread.

Now, I think that the plastic region threshold might be able to be lowered but I honestly think that if we base it similar structures such as ligaments and tendons then one can assume that 25% reduction in weight required thanks to heat. I believe there are several articles on this matter on the web.

I think I will post a thread on this subject. See if the smart people on the forum can help us find the girth to weight solution.


Last edited by 32quarters : 04-08-2022 at .

There is a relationship between heat/strain/time etc that we will not be able to derive from a scientific perspective where we can work out what will definitely work ft each person.

If you look at the two scientific studies in

The characteristics of the tunica albuginea revisited

You will see a wide variation between the values calculated for the various regions ( plastic and elastic). The first paper(the paper first posted in the thread which is the more modern one) was used to feed into the load calculator as it matches what some people see here. Though the first paper believes it’s results are inaccurate due to the test TAs being frozen and thawed many times which weakened them, the first paper believes the second papers results are more accurate. The results of the second paper show much higher values for plastic and elastic regions, much larger than the load calculator would give or that would be good to use.

The main point here is there are two studies that can help us and they don’t agree. The one we want to agree with believes it is wrong and the other is right. Which also means we don’t understand how much heat is helping from a scientific perspective.

We just have to adhere to the good principles on here about heat, low weight as possible and time and try to get a balance that works for you.


Measure for accuracy not for gains

Originally Posted by 32quarters
As I understand the theory (The characteristics of the tunica albuginea revisited) there is minimal benefit moving from the elastic region and into the plastic region and that with the addition of heat, we can achieve the same stress benefit while staying in the elastic region.

I am not sure if I agree with the not having to move into the plastic region. If we use empirical evidence of what seems to be 20+ years of PE on this and other forums we can see a pattern that shows a clear addition of stress (weight) over an extended period of time by most big gainers. Something has to trigger the body to adapt to the non-natural pulling of the penis structure. The logic to their approach seems solid.

I do agree that adding heat can lower the weight required.

Originally Posted by 32quarters
As I understand the theory ([thread=200377]

A critical point for me is the idea of staying with as low a weight as you can while still having growth. The practical application of this point is that you may start with too low of weight and not see gains, thus needing to increase and wait for results. So the trial and error aspect may cost time which could lead to disillusionment. However I am unsure how realistic my scenario will be.

I agree 100%

Originally Posted by 32quarters
As I understand the theory ([thread=200377]
It seems a common routine is coming together in that we start stretching with no heat (or turn the heatbpads on) with a weight slightly below 0.1mpa inflection point, then add weight 5 min or so until we exceed 0.1mpa target at the same time the heat pad is heated (~13 min).

We continue to add weight while under therapeutic heat (30 minutes minimum) until we reach our target weight which is less than the 0.17mpa point. We rhen turn off heat and add 20% weight for the cool down period.

For me, there is about a 3lb spread from 0.1mpa to 0.17mpa.

This is where I start to doubt a little and mostly on one point. I just don´t think enough weight is being used. I am not questioning the way the routine is structured. Maybe I am saying something that most have yet to say or others want to say on this subject. It just seems that it is a waste of time unless the structures are shocked into adapting.

Example; Lets talk about braces. Unless you adjust them every so often during the treatment the teeth will stay in the same position. The body says “why should I change?” if you never add to that stress. It becomes a game of add stress body adapts and that cycle must repeat.

Braces are a good analogy. Every 6 weeks or so, you’d come back to the orthodontist to have them adjusted or tighten to close the spaces between the teeth. Teeth moving takes time and can’t be rushed. In PE hanging, all experienced gainers recommended adding weight incrementally and slowly so the penis has time to adapt safely. From what I’ve read, many gainers got the most length increase at around 15-20 lbs, but it’ll take awhile to get there when starting from 3 to 5 lbs, as the consensus is adding 1/2 lb weekly or less, depending on individual circumstances. Adding weight too fast results in injuries.

I agree with using heat to warm up prior to hanging, and I also use heat during hanging as mentioned by Bib, although he only used heat in his morning sessions, I recalled. There was no mention of cooling down but he’d gained nevertheless.

Originally Posted by Ssdpr89
Right, yes I have read through it a couple times still wondering if it stretched the lig even though that was not his goal and if it changed erection angle. I remember him saying that methodology of BTC to target the lig was an outdated method from the dark ages. Just wondering if hanging straight down still had some effect on the lig

I do both BTC and SD. Definitely much more stretching on the lig during BTC than SD, so I ride the fatigue by switching from BTC to SD at same weight, or remove 1 lb for next session of BTC.

Originally Posted by gomitadelimon
I am not sure if I agree with the not having to move into the plastic region. If we use empirical evidence of what seems to be 20+ years of PE on this and other forums we can see a pattern that shows a clear addition of stress (weight) over an extended period of time by most big gainers. Something has to trigger the body to adapt to the non-natural pulling of the penis structure. The logic to their approach seems solid.

I do agree that adding heat can lower the weight required.

I agree 100%

This is where I start to doubt a little and mostly on one point. I just don´t think enough weight is being used. I am not questioning the way the routine is structured. Maybe I am saying something that most have yet to say or others want to say on this subject. It just seems that it is a waste of time unless the structures are shocked into adapting.

Example; Lets talk about braces. Unless you adjust them every so often during the treatment the teeth will stay in the same position. The body says “why should I change?” if you never add to that stress. It becomes a game of add stress body adapts and that cycle must repeat.

GD,

I think you may have some points, but I do think that coming to a thread (several times) that’s about hanging with light weights is a distraction and can be confusing to new guys. Can we move the “plastic region” conversation out of here? This was supposed to an easy to read summary of my progress log.

To be clear. My objection to hanging heavy is mostly about compression hangers. I’ve described those things as torture devices from the dark ages.
We both know that there is a fairly new guy active on the forum now who has injured himself following the hang heavy routine.


Retired: NO PMs; BPEL: 5.5" --> 7.9" ; BPFSL: ~5.6" --> 8.5"

Progress log summary: Hanging with FIRe

"Going hard, fast and heavy is all against the scientific knowledge of tissue expansion or elongation." - Kyrpa

That’s precisely how this routine is structured.
Using less weights/stress to achieve maximum gains.
If we look the things through the Bro-science and anecdotal evidence of course going fast and heavy as hanging low weights with FIRe are 2 working regimen.
One is still bringing more issues regarding injuries, time efficiency, strengthening the unit and it makes perfectly sense.

The braces metaphor is great you are right and again hanging with fire replicate it. When things are moving you don’t touch anything, if things are slow or stagnant you raise stress level incrementally and slowly.

When we look at the hardy study, or burnt units in hospitals, that’s the repetition which is important not going hard and fast.

If you go to the 0.5 Mpa threshold where would you go after gains stalls?
In my opinion hanging heavy like heavy hangers advocate has only one advantage and it’s more about psychological ease than anything else : just feeling that a ton is hanging from your unit and then knowing you are hanging. Still you don’t take into account the biological rhythm of your tissues as this is a result oriented approach until injury arrive or gains are no longer possible.

Last couple of years we have seen people hanging low weights whether using FIRe pads or Ultra sound. And it’s working like that, if you would like to cement gains you just have continue your routine to add internal scar tissue (collagen formation).
I just don’t understand why someone who is actually gain by hanging 900 grams would benefit to instead hang 15 or 20 kilograms…

I don’t expect an answer, i just don’t get what you are trying to achieve here and you should just open a thread to discuss it i think.

Originally Posted by scienceguy
There is a relationship between heat/strain/time etc that we will not be able to derive from a scientific perspective where we can work out what will definitely work ft each person.

If you look at the two scientific studies in

The characteristics of the tunica albuginea revisited

You will see a wide variation between the values calculated for the various regions ( plastic and elastic). The first paper(the paper first posted in the thread which is the more modern one) was used to feed into the load calculator as it matches what some people see here. Though the first paper believes it’s results are inaccurate due to the test TAs being frozen and thawed many times which weakened them, the first paper believes the second papers results are more accurate. The results of the second paper show much higher values for plastic and elastic regions, much larger than the load calculator would give or that would be good to use.

The main point here is there are two studies that can help us and they don’t agree. The one we want to agree with believes it is wrong and the other is right. Which also means we don’t understand how much heat is helping from a scientific perspective.

We just have to adhere to the good principles on here about heat, low weight as possible and time and try to get a balance that works for you.

Scientific, no but empirical data, yes.

While I understand your point lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater. The idea of keeping the weight as low as possible for as long as possible is all well and good but at what cost? Months, if not years, of doing too little weight with no results? I don´t believe in going up in weight very fast but I also don´t think that you should stay at a “comfortable” and only increase with what might be considered insignificant amounts. There has to be a middle ground.

When I hit 15 LB, I started to work up in 1/4-1/2 pound increments because I could no longer go up a pound. I am sure some will say that going up too fast will diminish your future gains. But let´s be clear, this organ is made to withstand a 100+ pound woman bouncing on it, what makes you think it is going to get harder to extract gains? What we do know, and is logical, if gains do stop then you need to add more weight.

Originally Posted by Wayne1985
Braces are a good analogy. Every 6 weeks or so, you’d come back to the orthodontist to have them adjusted or tighten to close the spaces between the teeth. Teeth moving takes time and can’t be rushed. In PE hanging, all experienced gainers recommended adding weight incrementally and slowly so the penis has time to adapt safely. From what I’ve read, many gainers got the most length increase at around 15-20 lbs, but it’ll take awhile to get there when starting from 3 to 5 lbs, as the consensus is adding 1/2 lb weekly or less, depending on individual circumstances. Adding weight too fast results in injuries.

I agree with using heat to warm up prior to hanging, and I also use heat during hanging as mentioned by Bib, although he only used heat in his morning sessions, I recalled. There was no mention of cooling down but he’d gained nevertheless.

Funny how history repeats itself. I could not agree more.

Originally Posted by gomitadelimon
Scientific, no but empirical data, yes.

While I understand your point lets not throw out the baby with the bathwater. The idea of keeping the weight as low as possible for as long as possible is all well and good but at what cost? Months, if not years, of doing too little weight with no results? I don´t believe in going up in weight very fast but I also don´t think that you should stay at a “comfortable” and only increase with what might be considered insignificant amounts. There has to be a middle ground.

When I hit 15 LB, I started to work up in 1/4-1/2 pound increments because I could no longer go up a pound. I am sure some will say that going up too fast will diminish your future gains. But let´s be clear, this organ is made to withstand a 100+ pound woman bouncing on it, what makes you think it is going to get harder to extract gains? What we do know, and is logical, if gains do stop then you need to add more weight.

I would not recommend doing months of a PE method with no results. The beauty of starting light is you can get gains from it with little to no other penis trauma or injury risk. Use as little weight as possible to get results. Though as the two studies mentioned above show the strength from TA to TA varies wildly so light weights with heat won’t work for all but the good thing is you just move up in weight. Every approach has its place just pick a method and try it out. Starting with light weight is Ideal as it has shown to give results and it if doesn’t you have gained knowledge and conditioning in your penis to start pushing the weight, if you think that will work for you.

I don’t believe there is one method to suit all but there are so many approaches on here most people can find one that works for them.

Heat is the key but how much it helps Vs weight is a big unknown and it’s going to be different from dick to dick.

Originally Posted by 5.5Squared
GD,

I think you may have some points, but I do think that coming to a thread (several times) that’s about hanging with light weights is a distraction and can be confusing to new guys. Can we move the “plastic region” conversation out of here? This was supposed to an easy to read summary of my progress log.

To be clear. My objection to hanging heavy is mostly about compression hangers. I’ve described those things as torture devices from the dark ages.
We both know that there is a fairly new guy active on the forum now who has injured himself following the hang heavy routine.

Agree, this is the wrong thread.

Originally Posted by 5.5Squared
GD,

I think you may have some points, but I do think that coming to a thread (several times) that’s about hanging with light weights is a distraction and can be confusing to new guys. Can we move the “plastic region” conversation out of here? This was supposed to an easy to read summary of my progress log.

To be clear. My objection to hanging heavy is mostly about compression hangers. I’ve described those things as torture devices from the dark ages.
We both know that there is a fairly new guy active on the forum now who has injured himself following the hang heavy routine.

I am sorry if you feel I derailed the thread but if this was meant to be a personal progress log I believe you posted in the wrong section.

Your objection to compression hangers is ok. I am not here to debate if they are good or bad. Believe me there are just as many PE advocates that find vac hanging the work of the devil. I do think that you will eventually make it to a weight that will be very difficult for a vac hanger to hold up.
Criticism, is healthy as long as it is not done with intent to harm. If we want to grow we need to question and debate as well as base our opinion on facts not emotions.

As far as injury, there is a reason most devices have a disclaimer. I am sorry but I come from the generation that did not need to be told that drinking Clorox is bad for you and can kill you. Common sense must be used at all times while practicing PE.

Anyways, sorry for going off on a tangent. Let us get back on track. So far everyone is good with the heat.

Originally Posted by scienceguy
I would not recommend doing months of a PE method with no results. The beauty of starting light is you can get gains from it with little to no other penis trauma or injury risk. Use as little weight as possible to get results. Though as the two studies mentioned above show the strength from TA to TA varies wildly so light weights with heat won’t work for all but the good thing is you just move up in weight. Every approach has its place just pick a method and try it out. Starting with light weight is Ideal as it has shown to give results and it if doesn’t you have gained knowledge and conditioning in your penis to start pushing the weight, if you think that will work for you.

I don’t believe there is one method to suit all but there are so many approaches on here most people can find one that works for them.

Heat is the key but how much it helps Vs weight is a big unknown and it’s going to be different from dick to dick.

This is in the hanging101 thread that should be a must read for all.

“Maximize your privacy time then begin adding weight. Move up in .5lb increments, adding no more than 1lb per week early on. Remember, avoid sharp pain, increase in 1/2 lb increments. Once you’re past 10lbs, 1.5lbs or 2lbs per week might be ok. Don’t add both weight & more sets in the same week. Also, split sets are important & help growth a lot. If you’re really riding the fatigue, your max weight will go down sometimes.

Sample Routine Progression:
(adjust as needed based on how you feel)

Week 01: 3x sets 2lbs Max @ 20m each
Week 02: 4x sets 2lbs Max @ 20m each (only adding sets)
Week 03: 5x sets 2lbs Max @ 20m each
Week 04: 6x sets 2lbs Max @ 20m each (privacy time maximized)
Week 05: 6x sets 3lbs Max @ 20m each (only adding weight)
Week 06: 6x sets 4lbs Max @ 20m each
Week 07: 6x sets 5lbs Max @ 20m each
Week 08: 6x sets 6lbs Max @ 20m each
Week 09: 6x sets 7lbs Max @ 20m each
Week 10: 6x sets 8lbs Max @ 20m each
Week 11: 6x sets 9lbs Max @ 20m each
Week 12: 6x sets 10lbs Max @ 20m each

Normally you will only reach your maximum weight during 1x set (maybe 2x sets). It’s ok to reduce the weight in subsequent sets if you start feeling pain. Reaching your maximum weight in the 1st or 2nd set then being forced to reduce weight in later sets is called riding the fatigue.

Critical Guidelines:
-Do Not add more than 1lb per week
-Do Not add more than 1x 20 minute set per week
-Do Not add additional sets AND hanging weight during the same week (increase one or the other, not both)
-Do Not spend more than 4 hours on one angle (due to diminishing returns)
(4 hours = 12x sets; if you hang more than 4 hours, choose a secondary angle of attack)

Ignoring these guidelines could result in an injury.

**1lb per week rule: There are substantial attachment point stresses exerted on your penis when you hang. Even if you can theoretically handle 10lbs, your penis might not be ready for the level of attachment point pressure / hanger tightness required. Even if you have a conditioned penis, you’ll still need to adapt to hanging. Give yourself time, and be patient. Most hangers gain little or nothing during their first few weeks. Consider those weeks an investment in a bigger penis. During this time of adjustment, don’t be afraid to take rest days as needed (e.g. 3 days on 1 day off, 2 days on 1 day off, whatever).”

I only posted this so you can understand that I am not advocating strapping in and hanging 20 kilos off your junk. I actually started with this routine (got my 2 inches and 8x6 club card :)

As you can see this is a slow progression of weight. So if your basing yourself solely on injury prevention maybe one should consider the Indian not the arrow. Injury only happens thanks to human error.

I also want to add this little tidbit. You can do just about any form of PE and chances are you will get newbie gains. If that where not the case then how do you explain every guy that has gained by hanging, pumping, and jelling?? This is probably why I also consider one can not use newbie gains as credible results of the efficacy of a routine. It is like free gains. The true test of a PE method is when you are gaining above that newbie gain phase. So I see a few guys claim this method is the holy grail of PE but is it realy?

I think you are misinterpreting what I say and I don’t think people see this as the holy grail, it is an easy way to start that is safe, can help people gain knowledge and it can give good gains. By saying those things about this method I am not saying other methods aren’t those things, it’s just my opinion on this method. Every method, even if it only gives gains for one person, has its place.


Measure for accuracy not for gains

Long hang times are hard unless you are using a vac hanger like Total Man or LG. You can gain from high weight but gains seem to stop faster at a lower overall gain amount than if you hang for more time with less weight.

I think this is because high weight tends to cause scar tissue buildup a lot more than lower tension over long periods of time. I have gained over 1.5”, with pictures to verify in my profile, and still gaining at relatively the same rate hanging at low weight for 3 hours a day in two 1.5hr sets and then using an ADS for the rest of the time. The ADS is so comfortable it is actually more comfortable for me to wear it then to not wear it which is kinda weird to say out loud.

Long story short, less weight, more time under tension.


Start BPEL: 5" Current BPEL: 7" Start EG: 4.25" Current EG: 5"

BPEL Gains So Far: 2" Goal: BPEL 8" EG Gains So Far: .75" Goal: BPEL 5.5"

Getting P-Shots and air pumping my way to 8" BPEL

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