Low LOTter's any success?

I don’t have much time to read and respond right now, but I’d like to add a couple of points:

First, don’t get discouraged. I actually got sucked into this thread because guys with low LOTs were complaining that they had little potential for gains. My goal was simply to decouple the measure of LOT from people’s idea of how much they can gain. It think that should be encouraging.

Second, the fact that lig gains may be illusory is no reason not to enjoy them. If you personally like how lig stretching changes the appearance of your dick and its size, then keep doing it. I’m not trying to invalidate lig stretching.

Third, stretching the ligs can also cause your penis to grow, which does translate to real gains. The ligs are attached to the shaft. Pulling on the ligs puts your shaft in traction, which might make it grow. So the “lig gains” may in fact translate to tunica gains, which are very real.

Fourth, the simulator is a cool toy but it’s not perfect. You can’t really stretch your ligs to 80 mm in real life. If you could, then, sure, you could see an apparent gain when the penis was pulled straight out. In reality, the ligament can only be slightly stretched, so the gains from simply straightening out the shaft are quite small. Also, regardless of what you do with your ligs, the length of the shaft (or rather the position of the glans with the shaft extended) doesn’t change for angles above about 10 o’clock. Try it and see. That’s normal intercourse angle.

Fifth, remember that some gains are real. I mention the illusory nature of “lig gains” so that people can understand what’s going on. But if you hang SD or BTC and gain 2 inches, you’ve gained some real size. Those aren’t all “lig gains,” no matter what people call them. They are shaft gains. And I’m not saying that SD or BTC won’t give you massive gains. It all depends on the person and what exercises and stresses his body responds to.

Well put Modesto! :) I think that sums all of this up.

Ok, ModestoMan

LOT doesn’t matter in the long run anyway, bogus or valid.

The tunica is the primary focus here.

Ligaments only transfer into gains if there is an inner penis that has not reached beyond the skin exit point. That is why there those who hang admit they get larger base girth from hanging, the inner penis is thicker then the outer penis. That’s the theory.

BTC is pointless if one is not aiming to stretch the ligs, stretching the ligs is pointless if one is not trying to expose their inner penis.

After you stop gaining with BTC you immediatley jump onto a tunica stretch RSDT fulcrum or OTS or SO, if you haven’t already as a secondary stretch.

Low LOT’s just will not have easy gains in the beginning from stretching the ligs with BTC but either way with a High LOT or Low LOT you transistion from stretching the Ligs to stretching the TUNICA. Everyone has to do it. It doesn’t matter what your LOT is at this point, tunica stretching is not affected by it, just the strength of your tunica collagenous fibers. It is their strength that determines the amount of weight or stress one must use to fatigue. Your tunica will fatigue at some stress point.

As for High LOT = More inner penis, well I can’t validate that statement but that’s the theory. It really shouldn’t matter in the long run because you will be stretching the tunica not the ligs for a majority of your length gains.

LOT theory relates to ligaments and inner penis potential. That’s it.

So Low LOT’s do NOT be discouraged, because tunica stretching is limitless unlike lig stretching.

As far as the septum goes, I’ve only read that it was the toughest tissue to fatigue. You of course may be correct, but regardless of who’s right here…

One should stretch their ligs with BTC preferably or SD etc if BTC is too intense. Then once gains stop being realized they should focus on tunica stretching.

Though one may reach plateaus, that they must get through, the tunica is forever stretching regardless of LOT. That is why Low LOT’s should not be disheartened. Ligs are not nearly as important as the tunica, and everyone can stretch it. Just its harder for some then others, but it will fatigue at some stress level whether it is 5 lbs or 50 and deformation will occur. Gains will be realized. It just takes vigilance and a bit of weight.

No one has answered my original question, have any Low LOT’s had substantial gains?

We all agree that Ligs do not contribute to length. Lenghtening those bands has very little effect on realized gains.

BTC only stresses the ligs. The tunica, if at all, is not affected by BTC. If it is, it’s by a very low stress level that would not be anywhere near the amount required to fatigue the tunica. BTC can not fatigue the tunica thus no tunica length gains from BTC.

So how does one gain from BTC if lengthening ligs does not add length, and the tunica is not stressed nearly enough to fatigue.

Exposing inner penis.

That is where those two inches came from, and if he exposed all of it, he will gain no more from SD and BTC.

No.

It’s referring to inner penis potential. Extending the ligs ONLY provides length if there is tunica that resides behind the skin exit point/inner penis. High LOT = Higher potential for a larger inner penis thus more gains from BTC stretching. Once all of your inner penis is extended their is no more gaining from BTC.

It does not refer to elongating the ligs for gains, just stretching the ligs to expose inner tunica/penis. After that point their is no point in stretching ligs.

Low LOTs are believed to have very little inner penis. Though they should still stretch BTC for a few months just to be sure no gains, inner penis, are realized. Then they should focus on Tunica stretching, just as High LOTs will once they have exposed the entirety of their tunica/inner penis.

Why do we want to expose the inner penis in the first place?

Because it remains unaffected by tunica stretching while behind the skin exit point thus hindering our potential gains. However once exposed it is affected by the tunica stretching. Why stretch only part of the tunica when you can access its entirety.

The LOT theory just refers to one’s potential for quick gains by exposing the inner penis. High LOT = higher potential for length gains from lig stretching because you have more inner penis then Low LOTs. However, that’s just the theory.

Why quick gains, because the ligs are easier to stretch then the tunica.

Again once you expose the inner penis there is no point in BTC stretching.

One should focus on Tunica stretching. High and Low LOTs must tunica stretch at some point. Everyone can stretch the tunica and realize infinite gains because the tunica can be stretched as long as the provided stress is available.

Plateaus are worked through, Bib could have kept going but his wife put a stop to that. If he wanted to he could continue. Not by stretching BTC, he has already exposed his inner penis long ago. But by tunica stretches OTS, RSDT, SO.
The tunica will forever stretch, it is easier for some then others to fatigue the tunica because some have thicker penises/rubber bands then others and some have stronger collangenous tissue then others.

However it will fatigue. It has too, it is not fail proof.

You just have to have vigilance and apply a bit of weight

Thats whats getting me worried Bugs Bunny, I dont see any low LOT’s saying they have had gains.

>>No.

It’s referring to inner penis potential. Extending the ligs ONLY provides length if there is tunica that resides behind the skin exit point/inner penis.<<

Isn’t that a link?

Anyway, if cutting your ligs won’t elongate your penis more than few millimeters (see posts above), this exactly means that you can’t expose your ‘inner penis’. You are not going to gain several inches of penile length “exposing the inner penis”.

Eh? What’s up Doc.

Link?

Ok, Aww you got me. I do not completely understand how the inner penis is exposed just that lig fatigue has something to do with it. BTC exposes it by fatiguing the ligs. How that affects exposing the inner penis, I do not know, except that the two are attached. Does BTC lengthen ligs, eh dunno. I think they can be stretched to a point, that point is where the inner penis is fully exposed. Just speculating.

However, Bib says this works. Why not give it a try. He also says if you do not realize any gains from BTC after giving it a serious effort, few months or more, to move on to stretching the tunica with SO,OTS, RSDT.

Since he is one of the few here who have had any real success, why should I doubt him before trying. I’m curious how Dino approached it, how he realized gains. Did he get most of his BTC or SO/OTS/RSDT.

As for you Gainenhope. Low LOT does not prevent you from tunica gains. Everyone stretches the tunica at some point and the gains are limitless provided enough stress.

I do not believe success stories are chiming in because this is beaten ground. They simply do not care. I’m sure, especially by the cynicism that revolves around this issue, that others see no point in continuing to validate or discredit the theory. In short, just hang. Now if you believe the theory go to bib’s site and read his forum, he offers plenty of information on the way he believes one should approach hanging. If not, well you just have to choose your own hanging style.

If you guys want to see what it looks like to have ligs pulled out due to downward angle hanging, check out my newest picture thread.

I have seen, I love how it looks! Mine are beginning to show.

Hey Bugs. Not to single you out for abuse, but I’m having a hard time finding anything you wrote that I agree with. For example …

No. Ligaments transfer into gains because they pull back on the penis whenever you pull on your glans from the opposite direction (e.g., manually or using a hanger). If it’s true that tension on the shaft stimulates growth, then lig stretching will necessarily apply stress to the shaft at all points along the shaft forward the lig attachment.

It is not clear to me that the “inner penis” is girthier than the outer penis, and I don’t believe it is “pulled out” as a result of PE. The reason hangers see increases in base girth is that the attachment points where the ligaments attach to the shaft (at the base) become stressed and inflamed. The body’s natural response to this inflammation is to lay down new tissue to strengthen them. This causes the tissues to thicken and base girth to increase.

Somewhere on this site is an MRI of my inner penis. At least when it’s flaccid, you can see that it’s much narrower than my outer penis, suggesting the inner penis is thinner, not thicker, than the outer penis.

That’s not what I am saying. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. If you pull from the glans or thereabouts on the shaft, and the shaft pulls the ligs, then then ligs pull back on the shaft. This has to be true (Newton’s first law, I think). This puts the shaft under tension, which most PE’ers think is a requirement for gains. It has nothing to do with LOT. It is physics and biology. The physics says tension is applied to the shaft. The biology says the penis may grow in response to the applied tension.

BTC and SD may be great exercises; they certainly do a good job of stretching the dorsal side of the tunica, which is its strongest part. I wouldn’t dismiss those exercises if I wanted to get some gains.

Another unsubstantiated Bib-ism. You cannot make the conclusory statement that low LOT means anything about the amount or rate of gains. There is just no basis for believing that.

It also relates to tugback distance, the angle of the pelvis, and especially where the ligaments attach along the shaft. LOT is extremely sensitive to lig attachment point. Moving it slightly forward or back changes LOT hugely—much faster than changing lig length.

IA: can you provide a link to that picture?

I can’t find that text on the page you’re linking to. And the text doesn’t make any sense at all.

I think he means this one,
1 year roughly Comparison pics. Big gain

Pay attention to the base of the penis. Compare the old picture to the new one (hard2.jpg). It’s quite a change.
Looks like the whole thing has been pulled out, and you can see what looks like the ligs starting showing at the base in the new picture.

If you have the firefox browser, use the ‘search’ tool, putting the text I quoted. The text makes sense to me.

Here you are a more simple search, Dicko:

http://www.issm .info/vmp/2006c … -19-eardley.pdf

see at page 23:

"There is no procedure to increase erect length.".

I hope this makes sense to you.