Question for BIB

Bib,
At what point do you think a hanger should just throw in the towel and give up? I’ll outline my history and perhaps you can judge whether I’m reaching that point.

I spent about the first three months of hanging (using your production starter model) to acclimate to the hanger, experiment with different positions and settings. In that time I worked up to a max of about 12.5 lbs in the straight down, straight out, and over the shoulder angles. I began with 3X20 minutes per day 5-6 days a week then worked up to 6-8X20minutes per day, 5 -6 days a week. This resulted in no gains.

Then for two months I tried hanging solely over the shoulder and worked up to 20 lb max, 10-12X20minutes per day, 6 days a week. This resulted in no gains.

Now I am working on hanging solely BTC and have been on this routine for almost two months now. I have just this week worked up to a max of 15 lb, an average of 8X20minutes per day, 5 days a week. Still I see no gains.

After I got comfortable hanging, i.e. after the first three months, I definitely experienced shaft and ligament fatigue, that dull ache that indicates that the tissues are being worked. I also had to drop the max weight both during the set and after individual sets.

I thought if a hanger experienced this fatigue and having to drop weight, that growth was occurring. Am I missing something? I do notice, however that my girth has improved slightly, maybe by 1/8 to 1/4 inch. No length gains though. I started about 6X4 13/16 and now am 6x5.

Would it be a reasonable plan for me to continue to hang BTC and gradually increase the weight up to about 22 lb and if I still don’t get any gains to conclude that my ligs/fascia are made of kevlar and not likely to stretch?

How common do you think it is that guys won’t gain no matter what until they hit a magic number like 15 or 20 lb BTC?

I can only increase the weight gradually because higher weights put a lot of pressure on the head. I also have a problem with the hanger “flowing” over the shaft until it rests against the head. What’s your recommended setting for this? toe out? toe in? Right now it’s at “neutral.”

Bib, thanks for reading. Although I have yet to benefit from your finely engineered hanger, I still have hope that gains are on the horizon.

Revhangman

RevHangman,

>At what point do you think a hanger should just throw in the towel and give up?<

Knowing what I know now, I would say only when they have reached their goals or the costs outweigh the benefits.

If I understand your amount of time spent hanging correctly, you have possibly spent more time without gains than anyone I have heard of.

>After I got comfortable hanging, i.e. after the first three months, I definitely experienced shaft and ligament fatigue, that dull ache that indicates that the tissues are being worked. I also had to drop the max weight both during the set and after individual sets.<

Have you checked to see if the skin is taking most of the weight? If you have the worked out, fatigued feeling, you should be making progress. Are your measures bone-pressed or NBP? Are you comfortable (relaxed) when you hang, even after reaching fatigue and dropping the weight? Do you ever find yourself “clock watching”, counting each minute till the set is over? If so, you may be pushing too hard. You must be able to ‘let go’, relax, and let the weight work.

You may have to work up to over twenty lbs. for a max weight. Fatigue quickly, then hang in the fatigued state. But always make sure you are able to relax.

>Would it be a reasonable plan for me to continue to hang BTC and gradually increase the weight up to about 22 lb and if I still don’t get any gains to conclude that my ligs/fascia are made of kevlar and not likely to stretch?<

Well, this would simply go against the laws of physics. At some weight, the tissues will fail and it will stretch. I have one question: Do you take a lot of Vit C, either in OJ or a supp?

>How common do you think it is that guys won’t gain no matter what until they hit a magic number like 15 or 20 lb BTC?<

Out of between one hundred and one fifty guys I have heard from, four or five have reported no gains whatsoever. I have not heard from them lately. I do know that everyone has their “magic number”. For many, it is five to ten lbs. For others, fifteen, and others over twenty.

Phat and Dance are two that took a long time before they began to see gains. They had the fatigue etc., but it took a “magic number” before the gains came.

>I can only increase the weight gradually because higher weights put a lot of pressure on the head. I also have a problem with the hanger “flowing” over the shaft until it rests against the head. What’s your recommended setting for this? toe out? toe in? Right now it’s at “neutral.”<

Try toeing out, and use a little more wrap so that you can tighten some more without the top teeth meshing. It is ok for the front thumbs to settle on the sides of the head, but you want the shaft to take as much weight as possible.

I know it can be very discourageing to work that hard with no gains. If I had been in that situation, I probably would have quit before now. That was a long time ago with much less knowledge of PE. Besides the Vit C question, is their anything else you are doing, diet, etc, that may influence the tissues? Any insight might help you and others.

Also, you did not say whether you used heat during the first half of the first sets. If so, can you tell of any positive effects?

Bigger

I get that feeling too,you know discouragement, but on the other hand, if I were to quit 5 months later I might kick my self, or at least wonder how big I’d be, now I do a little BTC, but mainly straight hanging, that is where I lie in my bed with 15 to 20 lbs connected to a pulley and weights, the BTC is where I lie on my weight bench, with the 10 to 15lbs and my feet up on my dresser, thats more of a hassel, and that too I found really fatigues you at first, but then not so much, I used to get really fatigued with straight hanging, I only usually do 2 or 3 set at a time one or two times a day, I guess I get between 6 to 10 hours a week, I hope that’ll the growth will just sneak up on me in time, that’s what I hope, is’nt that what happens for most, the reason I do a lot of straight hanging, Is I think the comfort rule is Bib rule No 1, plus here I’m doing 6 to 8 hours hanging (stretching) , then you hear about these guys just doing a few minutes of manual hanging a day and get great results, should’nt my ship come into

GetGrowing

BIB,
Thanks for your timely and detailed response.

***Have you checked to see if the skin is taking most of the weight? If you have the worked out, fatigued feeling, you should be making progress. Are your measures bone-pressed or NBP? Are you comfortable (relaxed) when you hang, even after reaching fatigue and dropping the weight? Do you ever find yourself “clock watching”, counting each minute till the set is over? If so, you may be pushing too hard. You must be able to ‘let go’, relax, and let the weight work.

I don’t think the skin is taking most of the weight. After I switched to BTC, I quickly stretched skin and also developed stretch marks.

My measurements are BP.

I do find myself “clock watching” a lot, especially at the max weight, but even frequently at the lower weights. I would not say that I am “relaxed” when hanging. Sometimes I’m sweating a bit.

**Well, this would simply go against the laws of physics. At some weight, the tissues will fail and it will stretch. I have one question: Do you take a lot of Vit C, either in OJ or a supp?

I take 1,200 mg of vitamin C divided in two doses, once with lunch and once with dinner. Does Vit C, “toughen” the ligs and therefore should I abstain?

**Out of between one hundred and one fifty guys I have heard from, four or five have reported no gains whatsoever. I have not heard from them lately. I do know that everyone has their “magic number”. For many, it is five to ten lbs. For others, fifteen, and others over twenty.

I don’t know if this is relevant, but I am strong for my weight. Granted there is no equivalence between muscle and penile tissue, but strength is not comprised solely of muscle fibers, but also tendons, ligaments, and bone. Some years ago, after about a month of progression I could bench press 200lb and squat 305lb 5reps each numerous sets. I was 140-145 lb; 5’10” I wonder if the various tissues of my body are in general “tough” and strong.

**Try toeing out, and use a little more wrap so that you can tighten some more without the top teeth meshing. It is ok for the front thumbs to settle on the sides of the head, but you want the shaft to take as much weight as possible.

I will try this. What wrap would you recommend on top of the theraband? t-shirt material?

**I know it can be very discourageing to work that hard with no gains. If I had been in that situation, I probably would have quit before now. That was a long time ago with much less knowledge of PE. Besides the Vit C question, is their anything else you are doing, diet, etc, that may influence the tissues? Any insight might help you and others.

I am an optimist by nature, and though I am disappointed, I’m still looking forward to the next workout and thinking, “Maybe today…” Getting a bit impatient, but not depressed about it :)

One thing that could influence the tissues is that I have severe respiratory allergies and numerous other food allergies. Currently, I am undergoing immunotherapy, “allergy shots” for the problem. My body seems to have a strong and immediate inflammation reaction. I don’t know if this has any relevance to hanging. Also, I seem to be a quick healer, with cuts and such; a few weeks ago I developed a hard, thrombosed vein which disappeared on the fourth day of non-hanging; that seems like a fast recovery.

**Also, you did not say whether you used heat during the first half of the first sets. If so, can you tell of any positive effects?

I apply heat on 90% of the sets. It seems to make the tissues more supple and stretchable than if I started cold.

Thanks for reading, BIB. You sure have my appreciation. Hopefully, with your thoughtful advice, I will soon see the light at the end of the tunnel.
Revhangman

Getgrowing,
Thanks for the words.
Now that I think about it I think the comfort factor is something I haven’t focused on enough.

Revhangman

RevHangman,

>I do find myself “clock watching” a lot, especially at the max weight, but even frequently at the lower weights. I would not say that I am “relaxed” when hanging. Sometimes I’m sweating a bit.<

Ok, this is bad. Try to lower the weight or increase the comfort to where you are able to forget the weight completely while you are doing other things. Just make a note of the set start time, then do something else. No pain.

>I take 1,200 mg of vitamin C divided in two doses, once with lunch and once with dinner. Does Vit C, “toughen” the ligs and therefore should I abstain?<

I have long had theories about this, and decided to bite the bullet and do some investingating. Please go to the main section and fill in the information on the Gains, Vit C, etc, thread.

Vit C is absolutely essential for the repair and manufacture of collagen, which is the main building blocks of ligs. I do not want anyone to change their dietary practices because of this, but there might be a link between high C intake and no gains. Tissues repairing so quickly there is no time for additive effects from the work. Groundhog Day.

I have a fear that everyone on this board could have foot long dicks and scurvy. “Yes ma’am, I don’t have any teeth, but you should see my dick!”.

>I don’t know if this is relevant, but I am strong for my weight. Granted there is no equivalence between muscle and penile tissue, but strength is not comprised solely of muscle fibers, but also tendons, ligaments, and bone. Some years ago, after about a month of progression I could bench press 200lb and squat 305lb 5reps each numerous sets. I was 140-145 lb; 5’10” I wonder if the various tissues of my body are in general “tough” and strong.<

I believe Huge is a slow gainer, and also reports extremely strong tissues.

>I will try this. What wrap would you recommend on top of the theraband? t-shirt material?<

I recommend a soft cloth, preferably elastic, like thin sweatshirt material UNDER Theraband. Try to always put the Theraband on top in order to make a solid wrap.

>I am an optimist by nature, and though I am disappointed, I’m still looking forward to the next workout and thinking, “Maybe today…” Getting a bit impatient, but not depressed about it <

One thing about it, if you quit, it definitely will not happen. I admire your fortitude.

>I apply heat on 90% of the sets. It seems to make the tissues more supple and stretchable than if I started cold.<

Try only applying heat for the first half of the first half of your sets. IOW, if you have 20 minute sets, then only heat for the first ten minutes. If you do 10 sets, only heat for the first five sets.

IMO, too much heat will cause the ligs to constrict when the stress is taken away.

Bigger

RH - I admire your fortitude. You keep it working and when you get gains you’ll have your special place in PE history. Then the hard gainers will mention “well, remember all that RH had to go through..”

Bib - on the Vit. C thing, I understand what you’re getting at. It makes me wonder if multiple sessions (3 a day) aren’t what is needed to constantly bombard those ligs? That, and tractionwrap or ADS usage. I mean, virtually no let up.

RH - yes, I would definitely say that you have some very good strength for your bodyweight. Which can be attributable in part to very tough connective tissue, as you do not have a ton of lean muscle tissue. This probably means you’ll really have to go above and beyond what most hangers do.

BIB,

Thanks for the suggestions. I will make the following changes:
Toe out the hanger for better grip of the shaft and another layer of wrap for more comfort.
Stop taking vitamin C supplements. There should be no health effects since I eat lots of vegetables.
As you mentioned, heat only the first half of the first half.
Try to relax more.

** On a separate issue, I’ve been doing a bit of research on wound healing and found a few interesting things that may be applicable to hanging. Aspirin seems to slow down wound healing by dampening the inflammation reaction which is a critical step in the process. Some doctors are against using aspirin in tendon/ligament injuries because it may slow the healing process (sorry, didn’t take down any references; just read through dozens of google results). What do you think about hard gainers taking two aspirin 30 minutes before they start a hanging session? The hypothesis is that aspirin can slow down the pace of repair of tendons/ligaments.
I think I will give this a try, at least for one month. My stomach tolerates aspirin very well, even on an empty stomach.

I will report on my results after about 6 weeks.

Busterhymes,
Thanks for your support. I hope this discussion, helps other hard gainers in a similar situation.

Revhangman

Still trying all this stuff.

My problems with the hanger moving forward were stopped by tightening it more strongly, and using more Thera and thicker cotton next to my dick. Plus toe out.

I have still not had gains since last August, so I reckon I have to give up — or try something new. Giving it my best shot till the end of June. Then I’m on 2 months holiday around the world.

Hanging better since beginning of 2002 —in range 20 —25—30 lbs—-but not fully comfortable. I can’t imagine this ever to be “comfortable”, but I’ll try to work on it. If more heavy weights have’t done the trick, I wonder how lighter weights can do anything for me.

Doing ADS every work day— 5 days/ week, and recently hanging more religiously 2 lots of 1 hour a day (2x30 mins + at least 10 min break each “hanging hour” , Morning and evening sessions) Using Heat on first 1/2 hour each session.

It has taken me a long time to fatigue to the point of having to lower the weight.

The commitment here— to do 2 x per day almost every day—- has to be amazingly constant, and perhaps this is the reason for my lack of progress. Perhaps my ligs heal too fast for one sessiojn per day to do any good..

I was taking Vit C for a long time, but have just “naturally” stopped recently. Only read about the “link” of healing to Vit C in this thread.

HEY GUYS— Watch Aspirin intake. Even at 1/2 tab a day, when taken for stroke prevention, it has been linked to very severe stomach bleeding.

Esp true for anyone with acid stomach reflex— “GORD” or any of these afflictions which a lot of over 40 year olds have. My Dr tells me definitely no Aspirin — at least not on anything like a daily basis.

I think perhaps a break from hanging is needed, if you get zero gains. You have a Bib hanger or starter, so hold onto it. Go to Bib’s site and read as much as possible thrice! Then search through both forum’s for postings on hanging. That is what I am doing for my soon to start hang time. Time off will result in a new understanding of this problem. Believe me it works! Thanks! TT

Hi Bib

I have edited my thread above and given more info and some questions / comments on which I’d much appreciate your comments.

Thanks P9 Rob

Pump,

You might try to continue without the Vit C and see if it has a positive result.

After that, and if you are still on the plateau, then take your vacation and let everything settle down. A couple months off should have everything in stable order. Then, you can start back fresh, probably at much lower weights, and see some gains.

I am a little worried about the not hanging comfortably at thirty pounds. There is simply no way to stretch effectively if you are tense and thinking about the weight. Whether it is hanger adjustment, wrap, or too much weight, you need to fix it so that you can totally relax while hanging. You should not have to be watching the clock. No pain.

I can tell you this, there were times when I moved up in weight too quickly or was just too agressive with time and did not feel the stretch because I was tense. One of the first things I learned was; in order to have a good session, I had to be totally relaxed and simply let the weight work.

Perhaps this is because of the small amount of smooth muscle in the penis contracting and limiting the stress on the connective tissue. Beats me. But I do know you can get a better stretch with less weight relaxed, than with more weight and tense.

Bigger

Bigger

I feel like the Reverend at the beginning of this thread. I read all the way through, reviewed your web site and wrapped and had one of the best hangs I’ve ever had with the BiB, working easily up to 20 lbs, an all time best, but didn’t feel any ligament stress to mention. My skin was taking some of the weight, however.

Then I took a break and read some more then put the hanger on but this time things were different - it wasn’t grasping the ligaments as before. I was wrapped in a yard of Theraband Gold and had the hanger’s jaws touching, but with only about six pounds on, the hanger, wrap, and shaft skin slid forward and would have gone over the head if I’d used more weight. I tightened more and adjusted the toe with no effect.

I thought maybe all that theraband was keeping the hanger from gripping properly and tried it commando as tight as I could get it. No difference.

What else can I do?

Tex3

I’ll see what I can do to bring “serenity” to my sessions…..

Tex3,

>I thought maybe all that theraband was keeping the hanger from gripping properly and tried it commando as tight as I could get it. No difference.<

You got it. A yard of gold Theraband is quite a lot. The gold is much stiffer and will not ‘give’ to allow the hanger to grasp the internal structures. Especially not with a yard of it. You might as well wrap with some flat iron. First, do you have any silver?

If you need more wrap in order to get more girth to adjust the hanger, use a soft, at least semi-elastic cloth. I liked thin sweat shirt material. It will also ‘give’ to conform to the penis and hanger alike and allow for a much better grasp. Then, use a layer of Theraband (12-15 inches) over the top of the cloth, silver if you have it. If not, I can send you some.

That is a really wide range between a yard of gold Theraband and commando. The amount of comfort of all the variables between the two is amazing. You have just tried two extremes.

Get back to me.

Bigger