Seminal Kung Fu and Crown Chakra Orgasms

Yes; initially…for the first 9.99 years (ha!) it seemed like trying to simultaneously extend the spine (through dipping of the coccyx) and contract the spine (through flexure of the sacral musculature)…which seemed physiologically impossible to my mind…but in that thought was my mind creating the barrier to accomplishing the maneuver….this is the barrier that I hope to help others with in this offering. I instinctively recoil at the use of the word “visualize” in matters such as this, because the subject is real, but, it is also true that visualizing the geometrical configuration of the Jade Palace, i.e. the pelvic cavity, and the maneuver that one is seeking to achieve between one’s sensible, tangible coccyx and one’s less tangible pelvic cavity, is, in my experience, very helpful: the pelvic cavity contains all of the reproductive organs and their connective tissues; these organs, under the influence of sexual stimulation, are excited to exercise their functions of secreting fluids; the excitation of these organs attends a generation of energy, in the case of the sexual organs, this energy, in Taoist practices, is referred to as jing. It is the excitation of the sexual organs and the jing energy which it produces, that becomes the basis for the practice of SKF. One can draw the refined distillate of jing energy, chi energy, a form of energy that is universally usable throughout the body for purposes of nurturing and healing, from the pelvic cavity into the opening at the tip of the coccyx, by means of the wasp sting maneuver…and here’s the part that Taoists guard: while being precisely well coordinated with stroking of the “Jade Stalk”. It works like this: once arousal (the honey is heated) just right, i.e. just starting to give off “vapors” (pre-orgasm feelings), then is the time to seek to coordinate wasp sting coccyx dips and shaft strokes…or more precisely, strokes of the shaft, which will generate jing, which one will immediately seek to capture the distillate of, i.e. the chi, with the wasp sting maneuver…when done right, it’s like dynamo…it propels chi up the spinal column, to the cranial pump, and to the crown…many uses there.

I digress: one will know that they have captured chi with thier wasp sting maneuver by the intense warmth that floods one’s lower back…because one will not be able to contain the chi within their MCO…initially.

That changes with practice.

xeno

Your description of your experience with Jing viscosity, BD, has helped me to offer this:

Here is the key to the door to the MCO that Taoists so closely guard:

The pelvic cavity is referred to as the Jade Palace. In the context of SKF, the Jade Palace should be visualized as a cauldron. Heating of the cauldron is done through arousal, generating heating of Jing within the cauldron. The cauldron has a domed lid with a vent. The vent is connected by a cord to the Jade Stalk (penis). Once one has built sufficient heating of the cauldron, the contained Jing begins to give off a vapor, referred to as Chi. The most closely guarded key to the MCO door: by a practiced, precise, gentle and deftly executed stretch of the Jade Stalk, the cauldron vent is opened, releasing only a parcel of Chi…so one need not contend with the entire contents of the cauldron…this is the critical understanding one must have to control the viscosity of the Chi to be moved. It is far easier to open the vent then it is to close it; closing the vent is done by closing the Iron Gate; i.e. strong flexure of the bulbospongiosus muscle…anyone attempting to execute SKF successfully absolutely MUST develop their BS muscle, as an untrained one will be more like a tissue paper gate; resulting in release of too much Chi…which causes the straw to melt. The parcel of Chi is delivered to a location just below the tip of the coccyx. By a precisely timed wasp sting dip of the coccyx, the cloud of liberated Chi is penetrated by the coccyx, which is like a straw, that up in to, does the Chi move upon being penetrated by the coccyx. The Chi, now in the straw, is then drawn up the spinal column (straw) by contraction of the sacral musculature, i.e. the sacral pump.

The rest is easy.

I doubt this information has ever been written in english.

Good Luck to all who seek SKF mastery.

xeno

Thank you so much for the additional details on the timing. These are the missing links in Chia’s instructions. I hope you don’t mind if I think out loud about this from the perspective of a neophyte, in the interest of the enlightening conversation happening here.

Simmering the jing with arousal seems the easy part. The cauldron to me has always felt like the 2nd chakra, aka the Sacral chakra or Belly chakra or Svadisthana in yoga. Like a ball of energy (intense warmth is maybe a description of the same feeling) just behind the navel and maybe 1-2 inches lower. Now I wonder if what I have felt there is actually the top domey lid and vent of the cauldron, and overheated chi vapor leaking out at that location before ever making it further along the MCO. This “energetic anatomy” of the cauldron is new to me.

The Jade Stalk here is both the heating element for the cauldron, and the lever for the release valve / vent! That is new info. You specifically used the word “stretch” of the Jade Stalk as well, in relation to its role in venting the chi vapors. This was a missing element in the instructions too. Since I was already feeling chi at the top of the caulrdon, I will have to experiment with whether a deft and gentle stretch of the Jade Stalk liberates a precise amount of chi at the sacral chakra, or moves it to the root chakra (just below the coccyx) or some combination. Or alternatively whether it sets the vent to “open” configuration and starts a flow of chi from the top of the cauldron.

Some of your previous posts have indicated the importance of working with a precise amount of chi vapor. So there may be some importance to opening the vent with the Jade Stalk, and quickly closing it with the BS muscle. It is still some mystery to me how the chi vapor gets from the cauldron vent to the root chakra area just below the coccyx. Perhaps automatically, perhaps a secondary effect of the well timed stretch of the Jade Stalk. However it gets there, if the chi vapor “cloud” is at least momentarily persistent (lasting at least a few seconds at the perineum) then it seems like the correct order of movements is open the vent (turning on chi vapor flow), move the chi, close the vent, dip the straw, suck the vapor, remove the straw, repeat. Alternatively, I will have to experiment with the possibility that sipping on the straw can only happen while the vent is open (IOW the chi vapor is not persistent and required a continuous flow).

The Iron Gate was something I previously considered to be at the root chakra. Closing the iron gate was something I associated with a strong and continuous flexure of the BS muscle. The books led me to believe it should be kept closed throughout the entire practice, and any opening of it would constitute a leak of chi from the perineum. This new information makes me consider two possibilities for the iron gate. One is keeping it closed almost all the time, except for the moment when we are opening the vent to allow some chi vapor out. In this interpretation, the BS muscle is contracted throughout the dipping of the coccyx, and the sacral pumping; and it is released only momentarily for the well-timed stretch of the Jade Stalk. In conjunction with the information in the books, it seems it may be important to immediately flex the BS after liberating some chi vapor to keep it from leaking through the root (anus). In which case we are talking about two vents. One at the top domed lid of the cauldron near the sacral chakra. And one at the bottom of the cauldron at the root chakra. Perhaps it is important to keep the BS flexed and Iron Gate closed only for the time that the chi vapor is at the perineum. IOW the BS flex is initiated once the chi is freed from the vent, and released once the chi is safely in the sacral pump, in which case the Iron Gate is closed about half the time.

Alternatively (2nd possibility of Iron Gate mechanics) one could open the vent using the Jade Stalk, move the chi to the perineum, close the vent using a brief flex of the BS muscle, and then continue on with dipping the straw and sacral pumping. In this interpretation there is only one vent (the one at the lid of the cauldron). And the vent is toggled between open and closed positions by brief but precise movements (Jade Stalk and BS muscle respectively). The BS muscle is not flexed continuously, or even half the time, but is flexed momentarily to toggled the vent closed and control the amount of chi that is released. This interpretation doesn’t quite fit with the books and all the talk of chi escaping from the root chakra. But may be worth testing.

To the wasp sting, sacral pump, and its movements in relation to all the above timings. I spent a couple hours today going over sacral anatomy. I discovered 3 different movement types for the sacrum and tailbone:

One is movement of the sacrococcygeal joint. This is an independent movement of the last vertebrae or two of the tailbone, using the muscles of the pelvic floor. Much like moving only the last knuckle of the finger joint, except for the spine. It is a very small movement of the tailbone ONLY, and no other part of the pelvis needs to move with it. My understanding is that this is definitely a part of the movement of the Wasp Sting maneuver. And it is possibly the entire movement of the wasp sting maneuver.

Two is movement of the sacroiliac joint. The joining of sacrum to the ilium (the point where base of the spine and the hip bones join together). The sacrum can move independently of the hips by about 2 degrees of rotation (called nutation and counter-nutation). Currently I’m not sure whether this is part of the Wasp Sting, or the Sacral Pump, or possibly both. If both, then the counter-nutation of the sacrum would be part of the wasp sting (moving the tailbone further into the pelvic cavity) and the nutation would be part of the sacral pump (moving the tailbone backward “out” of the pelvic cavity).

These first two movements actually move the coccyx forward within the pelvic cavity, and my instinct is that a combination of the two movements constitutes the wasp sting maneuver. Whether or not the coccyx is moved back before or after the sacral pump is going is another thing to experiment on.

The third movement is pelvic tilt, which moves the tailbone and sacrum forward and backward in space, but not relative to the pelvis. To further confound this already complex series of motions in SKF, the relation of the lower spine to the pelvis is actually the primary determinant of nutation and counter-nutation as well. IOW while the sacroiliac joint CAN move independently of the pelvic tilt, it also moves dependently on the lower spine and pelvic tilt. When the lower spine is straightened (decrease in lordosis), counter-nutation occurs, and the coccyx moved further into the pelvic cavity. When the lower spine is arched (increase in lordosis) nutation of the sacrum occurs, and the coccyx is moved backward. So this third movement could also be involved in the wasp sting maneuver in the sense that it could be the method by which counter-nutation is achieved.

In the books, and with this new information, the sacral pump sounds a lot like nutation of the sacrum by way of increasing spinal lordosis (which was decreased as part of the wasp sting maneuver) but I will have to experiment a lot to verify this. One thing I wonder about is whether this movement is to be executed only once per “cycle” of chi movement. IOW, after the wasp sting, is only one nutation of the sacrum required, or is it kind of moved back and forth (nutated and counter-nutated repeatedly) until the chi has been sufficiently sucked up the straw.

My best interpretation of the whole thing, putting it altogether, is getting to the right arousal level, simmering the jing, gently stretching the Jade Stalk to release an appropriate amount of chi vapor from the top vent of the cauldron, somehow moving the vapor to the perineum, strongly flexing the BS to close the Iron Gate and prevent the chi vapor from leaking from the bottom of the cauldron, flexing the sacrococcygeal joint while counter-nutating the sacrum by means of moving the lower spine - both in order to move the coccyx closer to the perineum and penetrate the chi cloud there, relaxing the sacrococcygeal joint and nutating the sacrum to move the now chi-infused coccyx away from the perineum and simultaneously pump the chi above the sacrum into the lumbar spine, and releasing the BS muscle now that the chi is safely away from the lower cauldron vent - in order to allow more chi to be vented off the cauldron. Then repeating the whole cycle in periods of about 10 seconds each.

Sounds easy ;)

Many parts I’m still unsure of, but these two excellent posts have vaulted me from “shooting in the dark” to making educated guesses, having a plan, and many ideas to test out.

Again, much thanks to you xeno.
BD

Xeno,

Have you ever experienced any loss of semen in the urine while retaining for a long time? It seems to have an energy loss with it, but not nearly as much as an ejaculation. It also seems to happen beyond intentional control. Any thoughts on this part of SKF? Thanks.

First time poster here.
A big thank you to Xeno, LBM1 and BeardedDragon! I was able to achieve what I think was a CCO last week, and another one last night.

Here is a description of my experience in case it is helpful for others.
I stumbled across this thread in early June this year while looking for some info on Karezza. Went through the entire thread in a couple of days and managed to get a copy of Mantak Chia’s book, and read through some of the pages at meditationexpert. Com suggested by LBM1. I started with the testicular breathing mentioned in the the book, and in a couple of days, was able to feel the energy move up to my sacral region. Then, on a long drive one night, with nothing much to do and needing to stay awake, I practiced testicular breathing continuously, and finally felt the energy move up past the sacrum - it felt like an electrifying/tingling feeling up my spine. After this, I sort of jumped the gun and started trying to do testicular breathing along with masturbation for a few weeks. This did not lead to much progress. It was pretty much similar to edging, and though I did not have any blue balls, I did develop some prostatitis and didn’t feel much energy movement.

Which was when I read through the posts on AYP Home Page - Lessons in Meditation, Pranayama, Kundalini, Tantra. I think the technique mentioned there is basically the same as Chia’s, but there are some subtle differences. Chia talks about tilting the sacrum, but I could never get the hang of it. AYPsite mentions lightly contracting the anal sphincter and holding it contracted throughout breathing practice (pranayama). Also, AYPsite does not talk about the MCO and moving energy down to the navel region - instead the technique calls for moving energy up the spine while breathing in and moving it back down while breathing out, until the energy finally reaches the crown chakra and results in a CCO (or bliss). I tried a combination of Chia’s and AYP techniques - lightly contracting the anal sphincter (and not all the muscles in the pelvic region) while breathing in and moving energy up the spine; and then trying to hold my attention at whatever point on the spine that the energy had reached while breathing out (rather than trying to move the energy back down while breathing out as suggested on the AYPsite) - and again started seeing some results in terms of energy movements, and all the chakras on my back used to feel really warm/tingly during practice. I also stopped masturbating entirely, and did not have an erection at all during practice. I should mention that I wasn’t really consistent in practicing - usually tried to practice while lying in bed, before going to sleep and after I woke up. The energy movements started getting really pleasurable, but also resulted in day-long headaches if I moved too much energy to the head and left it there. I tried moving the energy down to the navel region, but couldn’t really get the hang of that either. Also sometimes during practice, the anal sphincter used to sort of convulse almost on its own (again mentioned on the AYPsite) leading to especially pleasurable energy movements.

After a few weeks of practice, the headaches became less common. I also used to try to contract the muscles on the back of my neck as Chia suggests, during practice - not sure if this helped in moving the energy past the cranium or not. Finally one night after a few weeks, I felt a tingling/ electrifying sensation in my forehead, similar to the one I felt in my spine in June. My theory is that this particular feeling occurs the first time energy moves into a chakra, but I could be wrong here. That was around 3 weeks backs. A few nights after that happened, I woke up in the middle of the night with all the chakras on my back feeling really warm, and feeling like I was about to have an orgasm. I hadn’t ejaculated for over 45 days by this time, and was a bit concerned about losing whatever ‘energy’ I had saved, but decided to let go and experience whatever was going to happen. And surprise! I did have an orgasm, actually a series of orgasms, but no ejaculation and no contractions in the pelvic muscles. They felt sort of like ‘bubbles’ of pleasure moving up the spine and exploding at the different chakras with each breath. I was able to continue this for a few minutes, and have these orgasms at my heart chakra, until they gently tapered off. Repeated a couple of times that night and a few more nights after that. One thing to note - I had to lightly clench the anal sphincter at the beginning of each practice session to start the energy movements which resulted in these orgasms, but once the orgasms started happening (and maybe as a prerequisite to getting them started) I had to relax all muscles completely (including the pelvic/ anal sphincter, muscles at back of neck) and just concentrate on breathing in and moving energy/pleasure up the spine. And one other thing - I had to allow myself to let go in order to experience these orgasms - this statement probably doesn’t make much sense, and I am unable to find a better way to phrase it, but I guess a practitioner would understand it once he gets to this stage.

Then while trying to replicate this last week, while sitting down, I finally felt the ‘bubble’ of pleasure move up to the crown, and felt the tingling feeling inside my head starting from the crown that Xeno had described in his initial post. It lasted for only a few seconds since I felt the urge to ejaculate (I had in the past ejaculated while practicing sitting up, which is why I preferred to practice lying down - might have something to do with all the internal organs pressing down on the prostate while sitting up) and had to stop. Tried again later that day, but unfortunately it resulted in an ejaculatory orgasm before I could move the energy up to the crown (again, I didn’t masturbate but I did get an erection during this second attempt). And even more unfortunately, I gave in and jacked off a couple of times after that (hey, it had been almost 2 months!).

Had to wait a few days to again build up enough energy and last night was able to again experience the buildup of orgasms at each chakra and finally what I think was a CCO - had the feeling of "warm honey [being] poured over the inside of your head and is running down the inside of your skull". I am not sure if there was a release of nectar/amritha, but there was some sort of feeling/contraction up on the roof of my nasal cavity. I don’t think I tasted anything sweet, but there was some fluid running the back of my throat, which I couldn’t really taste. I don’t think it is mucus, and there was a sort of metallic taste which one of the sites I read (could have been aypsite) mentioned happens initially.

Hope my post would be helpful for other seekers. Let me know if anyone has any questions.

Thank you again Xeno, LBM1 and BeardedDragon!

Congrats on your CCO, and thank you for sharing your experience. I had a single one when I began practicing it years ago, but it happened on its own (probably bhakti fueled) and I have never reproduced it. It’s truly mind blowing :warp: and I’m glad for you :) . Blessings.

Thank you!

The part you wrote about staying with the energy at each chakra point on the MCO reminded me how important that is. The one CCO I had happened when I waited for the energy at each chakra, as long as it took. As opposed to moving the attention through the MCO, but “leaving the energy behind” so to speak.

Bump for a great thread. I read the MMO book a few months back and have been practicing, and just now got the recommended book from this thread.

Heh just to let you all know I am at Mantak Chia seminar in UK and he has just been going through a lot of the sexual stuff.. It was streamed live yesterday and today

Bump, because I’m doing that stuff as well and others might be interested.

Good work Phoenix!

Woah!! I’m jealous, does he still have the touch ? He has been teaching for a very long time. Lucky you man, how is the seminar ?

Interesting thread. I have been having male multiples for many years, It takes practice. I edge and allow my balls to get super tight and hang out at that level for a very long time. The orgasms are different than a normal one. I can feel it coming and it washes over me. I have had dozens in one session. The great thing is you keep your load and your hardon.