Seminal Kung Fu and Crown Chakra Orgasms

No worries :) I have made some progress in the last few days. The distinction between jing and the sipping of jing vapor (chi) helped. I was previously attempting to move the jing itself, at much too high of an arousal level.

BD,

Obviously the weekend reply didn’t materialize; but I haven’t forgotten your excellent questions and will get to their reply as soon as I can.

Thank you for your patience.

xeno

I understand. I’ve only recently come into the free time to dust off some old hobbies, this being one of them. And it is time consuming to write about since it’s so esoteric and non-material.

My biggest hurdle right now is blue balls.

I have no problem (from a will power standpoint) pulling back from full arousal, even from the edge of the point of no return. However, if I go to that level of arousal, I suffer painful blue balls later on, and the only relief is to release the seed. Rather than forcing my way through the pain or trying to find some palliative for the blue balls, I’m working under the hypothesis that over time my whole urogenital system will adjust to the increased energy, pressure, and arousal levels that come with daily practices and retention. In the meantime I’m doing once daily (aroused) practices with absolute minimum arousal levels, low enough that I don’t run into the blue ball problem. Hopefully over time I can work my way up to higher arousal levels, holding the seed, and with no pain.

Blue balls; yes, indicative of the sipping of vapors not yet being pulled cleanly to the sacral pump. Best offering is to emulate the wasp as it stings, curve your coccyx, dipping into the Semen Palace, tapping chi nectar off of the simmering jing. and then releasing (pulling back your coccyx) to stop the chi transfer; i.e. slow it down.

You’ll find the warmth in the small of your back which is the indication of chi that has been successfully sipped out of your Sperm Palace, moved past your sacral pump and up your spine.

xeno

Based on your earlier comment of finding sipping the jing vapors directly into the terminus of the coccyx, I’m going to presume that this question has been adequately addressed…please correct me if not.

A lot of questions here, also some important misunderstandings that I’m happy to have the opportunity to clear up. The BC flex has nothing to do with propelling jing. The BC muscle flex is important simply for closing the “flood gate” firmly…so yes, the stronger the BC muscle is, the easier it is to access jing vapor (chi) across a range of “temperatures”, such as in dual cultivation…something that I don’t recommend trying until great facility with the method is achieved, and even then there are significant issues that doing so presents…something that I may discuss here at some point.

This subject, along with the absence of a discussion of the real risk of cerebral hematoma, in my opinion, constitute the two principal shortcomings of the book. I’ve spent many months at a time refraining from ejaculating. I wouldn’t be surprised if there have been several periods in excess of a year between ejaculations, during which I was attempting to hand off chi from the sacral pump to the cranial pump. I had, and still do have, an extremely healthy liver due to the abundance of chi that I bathed it in during those 10,000, give or take attempts before successfully making that hand off.

Bottom line, while I do consider refraining from ejaculation to be beneficial IF one is drawing off chi fairly regularly and using it for nourishing one’s organs, if one is not doing that, beyond a certain level of refraining, additional has no further value. There are Taoist guidelines for the frequency of ejaculation based on age…I’ll try to find that, but my sense is that one in their 30’s, who is not performing jing derived chi distribution, a frequency of about one/10-14 days would provide plenty of jing to work with for practice improvement purposes.

Good question, and like much of this subject, unclear in the only text available to refer to. My experience is that immediately upon passing chi past the cranial pump a CCO initiates. I keep my tongue switch open (not touching roof of mouth) before and during the CCO. In my opinion, based on intuition, experience and neurologic modeling, my hypothesis is that the vagus nerve acts as the energy “sink” with the tongue switch open, effectively completing a circuit between the crown and the sperm palace. When this circuit is in effect, just a tiny bit of gonad stimulation generates tremendous churning of the CCO dynamo. When looking to exit the CCO, I close the tongue switch, which has less “resistance” than the vagus nerve circuit route, therefore, energy is routed down the front channel to the Dan Tien cauldron where it may be dissipated, energizing the kidneys, primarily.

I completely agree that there is no appreciable value to be had from focus on breathing. I focus on energy movement. I think that you understand the cause and the means of avoidance of blueballs at this point; one needs to be working with jing vapor, not jing itself…blueballs will thus be avoided…the “steam” is quite literally, taken out of them.

Regarding opening of the MO. It sounds like achieving a CCO requires that the “back channel” or “governor channel” of the MO must be known and open. And the experience of the CCO and the energy flowing down the body would show the path of the front channel. Without experience that though, it seems Chia recommends that we work on opening our MO anyway, by simply moving our awareness along the path that he describes.

Great dis-service from Chia here; I can’t tell you how many people think that they have opened their MCO by “moving their awareness” or similar…uh, no. The MCO is opened by chi moving through one’s cerebrospinal fluid. As long as the mobilized chi is maintained within the MCO, i.e. not lost between the Sperm Palace, the sacral pump and the cranial pump, it is not detectable during it’s travel through the MCO. It is only detectable when it is released from the MCO. The first detection that I made was when I first passed it by my sacral pump and, as would of course be the case for the first instance of this success, I didn’t know what to do next…so the chi was released from my MCO, warming my back and bathing my liver in chi. I continue to do this fairly frequently as a means of preserving a healthy liver. Once this success was realized, I was giddy and positive that I could accomplish movement of chi beyond the sacral pump, reaching the cranial pump. I forget how long after that success with the sacral pump it took before reaching the cranial pump successfully, but it wasn’t long, a few months I’d say. It was maybe the 3rd or 4th successful movement pass the cranial pump that resulted in my first CCO.

End of Second Section.

Thank you for your patience BD.

xeno

Hey xeno,

Between reading Chia and your responses, my understanding is growing quickly. But experientially, I’m still mostly guessing and experimenting.

I’m seeing now that it is about drawing, sipping, sucking the energy upwards. Ejaculation is a forceful outward push, with the force exploding from within the pelvic cavity. SKF is a gentle inward draw, with the force pulling from the cranial cavity. Previously I was trying to do an action step between the perineum and the coccyx - some kind of BC flex paired with a tailbone squeeze that would somehow hand off the energy to the spine. I was trying to push the energy into my spine using the pelvic force. Now I’ve shifted my paradigm so that the “doing” is at the crown and cranial cavity. I pull with the crown, remaining aware that the spinal cavity is acting as a straw whose opening is the coccyx. Currently I have some very limited success with just pulling with the crown. Sometimes I feel “something” going into my coccyx, but that’s the extent of it.

I don’t yet know how to pull with my sacral pump, or how to pull with my cranial pump. It would help a lot if you could clarify whether these pumps are pulling energy upwards or pushing energy upwards. IOW, does the sacral pump pull energy from the coccyx, or does it push energy toward the cranium?

Going back to reply to your message from last week:

I found an account online of another practitioner, although it’s not clear whether he mastered it, he does describe a similar continuous orgasm experience with a churning of the energy. He worked mostly with the cool draw method.

— See “My History with Master Chia” section about 1/3 of the way down.

I also found Co-author Michael Winn’s Healing Tao USA forums. Semen retention and SKF are unfortunately not very common subjects from what I could find. They focus more on other Qi-Gong methods.

That’s quite interesting, and reminds me of a deep closed-eye psychedelic trip, my first trip. I fasted for 2 days before eating psilocibin mushrooms. My awareness was ripped away from my body and mind, and into a vast interconnected energy web. A multi-verse in which I was smaller than an electron. I believed myself to be dying briefly, and then dead, and then I forgot that “I” ever was. It was certainly a step that was not re-traceable, and I experienced panic attacks for a few years following the trip, as I gradually integrated the new understanding of reality. However, I also certainly lived through it.

I’m also reminded of my most powerful chi energy experience. It happened six years ago after I first found Mantak Chia’s book. I practiced retaining the energy for about a week, and recirculating it to the navel after each arousal. After a week of that, one day I meditated on the energy stored at the navel, and maintaining focus on it there, I moved it to the sperm palace, and then to the perineum. This all took a few minutes since I was focusing very intently on not losing the energy as I moved it.

I intended to move it all the way around the MCO in this fashion. But when it got to the perineum, it felt like a trap-door opened at the perineum, and all the energy leaked out and down my legs in a matter of a few seconds, like water spilling down. And when it hit my feet, it rebounded back up a thousand fold! Through my perineum and up my spine like a bolt of lightning. Like a raging river of liquid white electric fire, flowing through me like a column that gripped my spine. Straight from my perineum to my crown, this river flowed for about 45 minutes, during which time I couldn’t move, and my heart was racing like I was sprinting at full speed. It was flushing me through and through, the edges of my body were the banks of the river, and I was just one giant overloaded pipe. The energy was spewing out the top of my head and face like a fountain. My awareness was nearly swept away, and I was trying to shut down the energy flow, I was in survival mode, and not in control of my body or energy.

When I finally did shut it down, I was in a bit of shock, and I felt like I had been electrocuted, like all my nerves from head to toe were fried. I bring it up because you reminded me of the overwhelming desire for female connection in that experience. I’ve never been able to re-create anything even remotely close that experience despite years of trying. The “trap door” that opened at my perineum was not in my control, it just happened on its own.

So that’s my motivation behind these practices. It also makes me think that the channels for the upward energy movement are already open, and I just don’t know how to use them intentionally. If I could find some way to harness that energy, it would be amazing. In the book, Chia says that each ejaculation contains the raw spiritual potential energy equivalent to a nuclear bomb. And my few experiences of getting in touch with the energy confirm that. It’s truly amazing, and unfathomable.

I assume “tug” in these excerpts is referring to genital stimulation here and not to any kind of pelvic muscle flex?

Also, counterclockwise from which perspective? Is this referring to the churning of the MCO?

I ended up doing an 8 day retention last time, with daily arousal SKF training, and a gradual building congestion and blue balls. Then the congestion became too great and I let it fly. Despite not having the greater channels open for smooth chi movement, I believe that the jing chi steam from the practice rises anyway, through whatever minute pathways available. On the 7th and 8th days, I noticed myself to be in great spirits a few times. Laughing and enjoying mundane things that normally wouldn’t even interest me. So I did get some chi benefits anyway.

Longer retentions seem like a necessary step on this path. You mentioned that you retained up to a year, and in that other account I posted above, Jacobus retained for 6 to 9 months several times. So I am faced with a few choices in how I want to practice. I’d appreciate some advice on how best to go about learning to sip the jing chi vapors.

1. Path one is what I’ve already been doing. I can practice drawing up the energy each day in a very low sexually aroused state. Simmering the jing, and performing the “warm draw” if you will. The advantage of this choice is that I get to work with warm jing, the easiest and most recognizable energy to move. The disadvantage is that until I learn to more effectively sip the jing vapors, I will suffer congestion and blue balls, and ultimately will have to release the seed more often to avoid pain or urogenital injury. My first cycle lasted about 1 week. If I never learn to sip the jing chi vapors, I could just spend much time running a fool’s errand with this path.

2. Path two is to avoid sexual arousal in order to achieve longer retention cycles. SKF practices would consist almost entirely of the “cool draw” of sipping unaroused jing vapors. This path has more jing, but since it’s not simmering, perhaps less jing vapors. In the past I’ve gone up to 20-30 days of retention in this way. And I imagine I could go quite a bit longer if I’m dedicated to conserving the chi and opening the pathways. The advantage is that I could retain much longer, and that larger build-up of jing could mean more vapors rising. I could learn to sip the jing chi in its cool form, and once I have mastered that I could return to path one. The disadvantage is no sex for a long time, with no guarantee that I will learn to sip jing chi vapors anyway.

My current understanding is that the pulling is done with the crown, and possibly also the base of the skull (cranial pump) and the sacrum. The BC flex, and positioning of the lower back in the seem to make sense to me now – emulate the wasp, as you say. To me it feels like the position of being fully thrusted during sex. The way I understand it, this positioning of the back and pelvis facilitates the drawing of the jing chi, but doesn’t actually propel it. The way I currently think of it is that the spinal cavity is sipping the vapors, and the back/pelvis positioning effectively moves those vapors closer to the coccyx, so they are more easily sipped.

Thanks for clarifying that about the BC muscle. Definitely a misunderstanding here. I’m still not clear on the concept of “floodgate” although I certainly remember Chia talking about it. He calls the perineum a door, through which life force leaks out. So far I’ve personally felt more likely to get the energy to the coccyx when I relax the pelvic floor, but perhaps I’m just feeling the energy leak out which makes me think I’ve done something right. If I flex the pelvic floor, I don’t feel much at all. I have noticed that flexing the pelvic floor is very good for “sealing” the energy in. IOW when doing SKF training with light arousal, sometimes I just want to ejaculate, but by flexing the pelvic floor, I feel like the energy doesn’t want to escape so powerfully (through ejaculation). So far that’s all I’ve found it useful for, and I suppose I am really missing out on a key part of the process here.

That’s amazing. I know I already asked about it above, but I notice you say these longer retentions happened after you activated the sacral pump. So would you advocate working on a 14 day retention cycle with aroused jing until I activate the sacral pump, and then after that working with much longer periods until I get to the cranial pump?

Your description of the tongue switch was excellent.

Can you sip the jing vapor without arousing the jing? The only way I can currently avoid blue balls during a longer retention is to avoid arousal entirely - otherwise the congestion just gradually accumulates.

Ok, so it’s smooth sailing after the cranial pump. What I’m most surprised by here is the idea that the chi is undetectable while it is maintained in the MCO. Up until now, I have been regarding the feeling of the warm electric energy as a successful energy movement. I can feel it so clearly between the cauldron, sperm palace, and perineum. I spent a couple years doing AYP pranayama, essentially breathing with the attention moving back and forth between the perineum and third eye. My third eye is quite active, with daily energy pulses and movements, and since starting up SKF I have felt similar pulses, pings, pressures, and warmth at the crown. So something is going on, it’s just not quite what is intended.

Well, sorry to write you a whole ‘nother book to read, but my curiosity has gotten the better of me.

BD

This is very interesting reading guys, please continue.. I have had some limited success with these practices however not anywhere near the levels you are both discussing..

BD, wonderful questions and insights; gratitude for the opportunity to help…honored to be able to offer assistance in this matter.

oz, thank you for the kind words; yes, more to come…likely at some interval…as always, trying to be of service.

xeno

Holy shit!

Recently my wife and I separated. She in one room and I in another. This went on for weeks and drove me crazy. Our relationship had declined since last april to the point were we avoided eachother in bed, and the move to different rooms was the next obvious step.

I had met another woman and had been seeing her occasionally, and one night I was getting ready to go out with friends and my wife told me to go out and have good sex for a change. This comment shocked and hurt me because I was still frankly hopeful that we could reconcile, but this made me angry.

I ended up in my girlfriend’s bed that night and we made love for what seemed like hours, to the point where I became almost out of my body at times and lost in this woman’s perfection. I realised afterwards that I never ejaculated while having sex with this woman which was strange, and more so because she never asked about it.

To make a long long story short, my wife and I are together again and she is saying she knows now that she is as responsible as I am for the breakdown of our relationship and wants to do all she can to make things right again, which I’m all for.

And making love to her was exactly like being with the other woman, even to the point where I didn’t ejaculate for what must have been at least a half hour deep inside her.

And my wife’s kisses tasted like honey, and I felt heat rising across my tailbone and itching repeatedly.

I’ve never experienced anything like this before in my life.

Glad to hear the fire’s burning again in your marriage a-unit. You could be in a ripe situation to quickly learn the Taoist practices.

I’ll be away from the computer for a couple weeks, a much needed break. I’ll continue practicing though, and look forward to continuing the discussion when I get back.

Couple more questions xeno, on the energetic nature of blue balls. Can you even still get blue balls now that you’re able to do this? Perhaps by arousal while intentionally not sipping away the jing chi? And if you did get blue balls from doing that, could you immediately then relieve the pressure whenever you choose by sipping the jing chi, or must it be done during the arousal and not afterward?

And does it matter if I use porn or erotic photos for the arousal? I assume it’s OK since you recommend practicing solo cultivation, but Chia repeatedly advises not to engage in sex without love, so I’m wondering if the blue balls are a product of that.

Talk to you all in a couple weeks.

Excellent question; yes, blue ball syndrome is avoidable by means of the MCO…and yes, sufficient arousal is required for chi to be evaporate off of the excited jing, thereby relieving one of an over-abundance of jing energy. I like to direct the chi that I pull off to the lower-middle portion of my back, i.e. letting go of it there, allowing it to flush my visceral organs…longevity is the theoretical result of this practice…I am ridiculously healthy and appear to others to be far younger than I am…I think this is why.

Another good question; in my earlier practice, I found porn helpful during early arousal. Once chi passes the sacral pump, it became a distraction to me and I would turn it off. I don’t use it all anymore.

Thanks. I’ve had the flu and wasn’t in a mood to practice it for a couple weeks, but now I’m back to it.

Glad you’re feeling better BD. Hope that you stick with your practice; you have all of the essential information and, I perceive, the requisite mentality, to realize CCO.

xeno

Thanks. Now it’s just a matter of taking thousands of shots in the dark at it. Ever since I first experienced this bio-electricity, I’ve searched for some meaning, or understanding, or control of it, or use for it. But so far no dice. I’ve read a lot of amazing things about it, but to me it’s always remained simply a bizarre and sometimes fun curiosity. I’ll keep an open mind, a spirit of experimentation, and see what happens over the years. I’m grateful for the experience you’ve shared here. Extra pieces of the puzzle.

You’re very welcome BD; it’s been a source of joy for me to be of use in this way.

Last little unsolicited insight: the key for me was learning how to arch my lower back, pulling up my coccyx, like a wasp prior to stinging, in order to increase the distance between the “tap” (i.e. coccyx) and the “source” (i.e. Sperm Palace). A small positive displacement of the coccyx relative to the Sperm Palace yields a great cooling of the exchange of jing vapor from the Sperm Palace to the coccyx and prevents “over-heating” of the exchange, which cannot be controlled, resulting in either loss of chi into the lower back (i.e. before encountering the sacral pump) or ejaculation; the former is a much better outcome…a strong BS muscle will help close the “iron gate”, thus preventing the latter…it is then but a matter of mastering the dipping of the coccyx into the jing vapor in a manner that maintains sufficient control of the chi thus drawn from the Sperm Palace. Once you pass your first drawn chi past the sacral pump, you’re 90% of the way to experiencing CCO.

For you, I think CCO is but a matter of when…

Know that I’m always happy to help and…

Good Luck!

xeno