Venous Leak, Scary Shit!

This whole subject ‘Venous Leak’ is scaring the shit out of me. I know theres only a few cases on here of it happening. But is seems like thats it, your penises life is over if you get one. Just how common are they? What do they entail? Is it purely from PE exercises? Can people get them naturally without PE?

Someone please put my mind at ease. I get more paranoid every time someone mentions it!

There are many threads dedicated to this topic already, no need to start another one. And there is a poll started by me on big PE injuries, if you are interested.

Let me say you one thing: years ago, someone reported nerve damage: loss of sensitivy in the penis, ED, etc.. It became epidemic: more and more people started reporting nerve damage. After a while, this epidemy disappeared by itself.

Some time ago, a member here, (I think it was Invictus) reported a venous leakage (not caused by PE). No one did know anything about, no one was reporting similar problems. Now, people (self)reporting venous leakage is popping out like mushrooms.

Do the math.

To be fair I don’t think people were aware of venous leak injuries until recently. It seems alot of erectile problems in young, healthy men are put down to psycological reasons, even when they are not. We’ve had a few cases reported of guys going to uroogists and being told their problems were all in their minds and then gone on to find they had venous leaks. So prior to Invictus, it’s quite plausible that guys were having these problems, yet they were going undiagnosed. I mentioned in a thread the other day about my friend who’d been to a few urologists and none had even mentioned the possibility of a venous leak. It’s only due to what I’d read on this forum that he finally got diagnosed. Prior to Invictus, it’s unlikley anyone would have had the knowlwedge to self diagnose a venous leak, as half the time it seems not even urologists are capable of doing so.

There are many members here who self-diagnose. Most often it’s a “trombosed vein” even though they don’t show the classic symptoms. Now it’s venous leak.

Most of our members are careful with their exercises and never have any kind of problems. A few people who do have problems are usually quick to blame the exercises. Almost no one ever get’s a doctor’s opinion.

I read Invictus’ post before my golf round today, and it spoiled my entire round because I was scared shitless and worried that I may have it as well. Then I realized that I don’t. Whenever I read about a disorder/disease I immediately think I have it too. But I hope that kid can recover and get better.

Take a thorough penis inventory, get into your PE exercises very gradually and carefully, and watch closely for any negative changes in functioning. Experience shows that this is enough for the vast majority of men to stay safe — although this is little consolation to the few who have sustained serious damage from their PEing. Proceed at your own risk.

The guys above are almost certainly correct that anxiety about particular penis problems helps to “create” them, at least in terms of self-diagnosis. Read up on the Australian epidemic of repetitive stress injury (RSI) in the 1980s for a similar story in the sociology of medicine.

Something that should be kept in mind that has slightly reassured me slightly, is that PE has worked successfully for 1000’s on this forum and there are only a select few (less than 10?) which have experienced permanent damage. Even if 100 had experienced permanent damage this would be 0.3% (10 would be 0.03%).

Can said venous leaks be caused by just jelqing alone? Or will more intense exercises have to be used to injure your penis in such a way?

^ Honestly, I cannot relate venous leaks to jelqing. PE done in a reasonable manner should provide better penile health, not at all damage! But you know, there are 10,000 ways to do things wrongly and some people are very imaginative when it comes to abusing themselves…

Years ago it seems new members were happy to start with the Newbie Routine. They made a rice sock, warmed up, did the routine as written, or quite often began with less and built up. We didn’t have all these stories of ED problems.
In the last couple of years, probably because of porn related expectations, lots of newbies start asking ‘how can I get some major girth, really quickly’ type questions. It’s human nature to think more is better, but it isn’t with PE.

Many of the ‘injuries’ seem to occur very early on in people’s PE practice. It is always possible that a tiny percentage have a weakness, and we have threads warning about that. Those who do would most likely get an injury from sex or masturbation long before they tried correct PE.
But I think the vast majority of guys who get injured ‘just jelqing’ are either doing it vastly too hard, or doing far to many jelqs, to exhaustion, or doing another set of jelqs before their penis has had any recovery time from the last set. Or they weren’t just jelqing; they jumped straight into clamping, realise it was a stupid thing to do, and won’t admit it.

We frequently say PE is not like weight training; it isn’t. But to draw a parallel, if you have never weight trained before and you tried to bench 400 pounds, you will tear something. If you try to do 400 reps in one set, you will strain something. If you try to train twice a day, or even once a day to start with, you will get injured because the tissues are not recovered enough to take any more strain. After a few months of weights, you know what you can safely do, and you can handle more weight, or train more often.

If you prefer a running analogy, you wouldn’t go out and do a marathon if you had been a couch potato for a few years. You would expect to be carrying excess body fat and slamming 3x your body weight through knee and hip cartilage that was soft from inactivity would potentially cause permanently damage.

You have to take it slow and easy to start with, and the spates of injuries correspond to to the ‘gain 400%’ ‘super clamping growth method’ type stupid threads, which occasionally newbies, fall for because they have not read the “read these first” threads that are in huge type across the top of the Newbie Forum.

Forget about fast gains. Function is far more important. A really hard penis feels a lot bigger to a woman, so work on your EQ first, and don’t let it slip much while going for growth. Watch your Physiologic Indicators (PI’s) and resist that temptation to ever push a bit harder than you think you should with your exercises.

I have been meaning to bring up a question. I remember from my anatomy classes that inside veins are leaflet valves that are unidirectional. This allows blood to flow in one direction and not come back since the venous system is low pressure due to it’s distance form the heart. Muscle contraction actually greatly helps in propelling blood through the veins. Disorders like varicose veins are actually incompetent valves.

My question is this. I’m pretty sure that mechanical force can damage valves. Could jelqing be damaging these valves within the veins of the penis? Which direction do the veins within the penis flow?

I would think they flow out which would mean jelqing could be putting increased pressure on these valves, in effect blowing them out. I say this not to scare anyone unnecessarily, I just jelqed a 10 minutes ago. Just was hoping to bring this topic up.

An interesting point Damien84. I would tend to agree with your theory although would also suggest that if jelqing is done gradually and in a controlled manner then the valve system would most likely adopt and strengthen i.e. as the penis grew too. I am going of jelqing though. It seems many of the venous leak cases relate to jelqing. But one thing that still confuses me is the fact many of the cases seem to report an immediate failure. Surely the valves could not change characteristically over night. I think as Firegoat states a lot of cases are probably hesitant to admit they went too hard too soon i.e. over training with the more is better mindset.

Furthermore, Firegoat's statement about a harder penis feeling bigger to a women is 100% correct from my experience as I covered in a previous thread The importance of EQ In my progress report I monitor my EQ weekly in accordance with Para-Gooma's penis inventory and furthermore, record any changes monthly for my own personal record.

Slow and Steady wins the race! Keep it light and the gains will come in time. Monitoring is key

I don’t think we should automatically assume that these injuries are being caused by newbies not being careful or doing too mcuh too soon. If indeed these injuries are to do with manual PE, which we have little or no proof of, it is wrong to assume that it’s simply a case of over doing it. Most who have claimed PE induced venous leaks have claimed they were only gentle jelking. The advice of taking it easy to start with is of course good, but there is every chance that it’s not simply the force or duration that is causing the problems. Some people may simply not respond well to the jelqing action. I’m sure there are cases where people get venous leaks from simple masturbation and it wasn’t because they were jerking off any harder than usual. I suspect that venous leaks are simply more common than was previously realised within the medical community. Thanks to the interent now hundreds of thousands of men can talk openly about the penis’s and how they function. One of the results of this is we are going to find out more about erection quality etc. In the past if you had a problem like venous leak, what could you do other than go to a urologist? If he told you it was in your head, you’d pretty much have to accept it.

I think there is a desire to believe that if done correctly PE is perfectly safe. When that probably isn’t the case. But then again nor is it the case with masterbation or sex. Given a long enough time line and enough people, injuires will happen. Thundersplace is close to 10 years old and has over 100,000 members, so it’s not really surpirsing that we are coming across some guys having these problems. The key is not to let venous leak become the PE equivalent of Propecia side effects. In the same way thousands of guys convince themselves Propecia has damaged them (there are of course many genuine cases), it’s easy to convince yourself you have a venous leak.

Koro (medicine) - Wikipedia

Penis panic exists in different cultures, its expressed different ways. To Westerners its obvious that black magicians can’t steal your penis and make it disappear or shrivel, but in Africa is commonly happens, and people get beaten and killed over it. And it usually happens there in groups, not just one guy. It expresses itself differently in Asia, and people explain it differently, but men enter an absolute panic over their penis, and even think they will die if their penis retracts to the point it disappears. They go to the doctor, who tells them there is no problem physically, but they still know there is. So they seek out other sorts of practitioners until they find one who agrees there is a problem and knows how to treat it.

It seems strange that a lot of different cultures have some kind of penis panic, except in the west. Its not known in Europe or the Americas. (It happens in Haiti, Jamaica, and parts of Central/South America where santeria is practiced.) Is that these countries are too smart to believe this sort of thing? I bet its just because we have a society with a long history of not talking about penis. The internet opens things up, men start talking, and all of a sudden, something like penis panic starts happening. We don’t blame sorcerers, we blame jelqing instead.

Some of you guys just got mad at me, but I’m not saying that all PE injuries are psychological. Absolutely you can hurt your dick. Some guys do. But it can also be this sort of thing, where there are suddenly a lot of cases of something that was never a problem before.

Similarities between this phenomenon and asian/arfrican penis panic.
-Usually happens to younger, single men.
-Seek out help, but insist its not in their head if the doctor says it is.
-Know exactly what caused the problem, and hold to that even if it makes little sense to other people.
-Can be contagious - hearing it happened to someone else scares the victim, who later becomes convinced it happened to them too.
-Thoughts of death or suicide
-Physical changes to the penis, or the perception that it changed - retraction, appearance.

This sort of thing happens in other parts of the world, maybe Westerners now get to join in the crazy fun.

northmiami, I used to live in SE Asia and know the problems of self-fulfilling penis prophesy there, and it’s such a problem that I have avoided ever bringing it up here for fear of ‘creating’ a wave of problems.

Suffice to say your post and your link do make some good and valid points.
It’s never been so much of a problem here yet, even when we suddenly get a few cases close together, (I think most cases here are ‘over enthusiasm’ of one kind or another, as I have said above, coupled with a tiny fraction of a percent of natural weakness) but I do believe an epidemic is entirely possible, as it has swept parts of Asia and Africa with very little stimulus. I’ll resist saying any more than that. (: