DLD says a sad goodbye to Thundersplace

Apparently DLD has what he considers to be some reliable sources otherwise I cant see how he is getting so emotional about all this but the possibility still exist that those sources are just tuning him up and instigating this whole thing way out of proportion. If anyone knows Thunder real well, it would probably be DLD, therefore whatever influence DLD is under must be pretty persuasive. I think Thunder and DLD should switch roles and walk a mile or two in each others shoes and then ask DLD how he would handle it and ask Thunder the same question.

dld wrote:
>>”This means the mods I thought to be my friends are spreading information from the mod forum among the general public in some sort of lynching attempt. “<<

Anybody here been contacted by mods on this issue?? I want to know about it if you have. If you don’t feel like posting about it here, send me a PM or email. But feel free to post your information here if you want to, I would really prefer that you did.

dld, if you have names, post them or PM me if you prefer.

DLD;

I am speaking as both a Mod and an Administrator here. I am not speaking for Thunder or other Mods who can do that very well themselves.

Yes, DLD, your situation has been discussed among the Mods. It had to be because you made the decision to create a pay site. I know for a fact that Thunder gave you his full support and encouragement to create a site of your own and wished you well in that project. A great many members and Mods also wished you great success when you posted your pay site announcement.

There is no conspiracy that I am aware of and I have access to every forum on this board. There is serious discussion, true, about how to approach your decision. Do we make a special exemption of a site rule because we like you? Obviously that cannot happen. Site policy has to apply to all of us.

Do not confuse what you see erroneously as a “witch-hunt” with honest discussion of policy application. I feel it completely inappropriate that you are misleading members with pleas that you are being back-stabbed.

The choice to create a pay site was yours completely. You knew that that decision would inevitably affect your status as a moderator. If I were to establish a pay site and attempt to promote it here, I would then deal with the same consequences as you.

I say all this as someone who happens to be very fond of you. You have always been very gracious in your posts. The tone of this thread really took me aback.

I sincerely hope you will put your decision in the proper pespective. You are the one who chose to create the pay site.

Fortex99, I too am a member of DLD’s site. And I too spend all my time here sharing thoughts and ‘hanging out’ with my Thunder’s friends. Money has some to do with it of course. If people pay DLD and that takes away from contributions here, that makes it harder to make this place survive. Remember that Thunder’s is here only for the people, not about making anyone money. It’d be great if everyone could contribute to both but a lot of people just take advantage of Thunder’s Place.

DLD’s site is great and a wonderful resource for the PE community and I’m so happy for him to be able to do that. In my opinion, DLD has done great job of being a pay site owner and one of the guys here. His thread on discovering the dry jelq is proof that he’s not here to just promote his pay site. What PE Guru, who is supposed to have all the answers and is only trying to promote a product, would come right out and say they’ve just discovered something that others have been doing for a while? I’ll tell you, someone that is just trying to help his fellow man.

Another thing that may have something to do with it is pride. DLD gets a lot of credit for a lot of things and deservedly so. But, there are lots of others giving of their knowledge and time too and that should be recognized as well. Fortunately, DLD is the first to admit other’s contribution to PE. It’d be nice if more members would recognize other’s contributions more often as well.

Just to make sure one point is clear to everybody… I never recall seeing anyone (moderator or otherwise) suggest that DLD should not be a member here. The debate was about being a moderator and what that entails.

One of the great things about Thunder’s Place is that it is supposed to be impartial. I fully expect to see a thread that discusses whether DLD’s new site is great or junk. What if DLD could go in an moderate that discussion? Wouldn’t that make Thunder’s seem not so trustworthy (even if we all trust DLD not to do that because he is not that kind of guy). You don’t have to be a lawyer to understand that the “appearance” of a conflict of interest is a bad thing even if nothing bad actually took place.

Hugeness

DLD,
I don’t know about the politics involved on this forum. I thought it was unusual to see you posting here after MOS was up and running. To me it spoke alot about the unselfishness of Thunder and also of you as you were still giving advice on this forum. To me it was like “never the twain shall meet” and just a matter of time till you had to go. I’ve joined MOS and find the distillation of techniques wonderful. I also continue to visit Thunder’s forum, both with dough(last donation about 5 months ago) and my time. I don’t think it’s a good idea to start your own free forum, it will only dilute this board.

There is nothing in the world wrong with getting paid for knowledge. I’m 51 and make far more now than when I was younger simply because I. Know. More. I certainly don’t mind that you’ve got a paysite and are now charging for what you once provided free here. Of course your site is packed with tons of info, but I like coming here for the exchange.

As for this behind the scenes BS, eff it. You and Thunder have given me something that means the world to me. The means to get a bigger dick(little over an inch in 7 months) and the place to talk about. Is there anything finer than your girl yelling OMG? God bless you both.

larry29

Not true. At least one moderator wanted to ban DLD due to his ownership of a pay site.

DLD, wow where do I begin….

You were always the one that went out of your way to answer my questions. When almost nobody answered my posts, I always saw one reply and I knew it was somebody I could count on… DLD. Thank you for everything that you have done for me. I don’t honestly think your paysite is a bad thing, everybody has to move forward whether people like or not. Good luck to you in everything that you do.

dld

Interesting the things that happen within days. I am not in the position to say what is right or what is wrong. I just can say what I feel.

I have had some nice conversations with you. You have been very open and very giving. I don’t think who you are has even been an issue. I like you. I think you are a very nice individual. Keep that in mind.

Also, keep in mind that sometimes things happen here that some of us will never like. We just have to regroup and move on. But not literally move on if it isn’t necessary.

I respect your decision and wish you a most heart felt luck in all you aim to achieve. Just remember those who have grown to cherish and depend on you. Being a mod is just a title. Being who you are to those you have touched, helped and improved goes beyond that. No matter what the methods were or what other may have thought.

Don’t reach for anything less than the sky, but keep in mind that on your way up, there are people who still need you…here.

Wouldn’t this be better left for Thunder and DLD to work out between themselves? Since they are the owners of the sites, it stands to reason that it would save everyone some heartache if it were left to them to come to a meeting of the minds and everyone else be damned. It seems the adult approach…………Just a thought……….

Even though I have been a member only a short time, I have been reading this forum for quite some time and truly enjoy the information. I would not like for it to become anything other than positive.

And that idea had no support as I recall.

It seems that there is a ready middle ground here if folks want to choose it. More on that in a minute.

I’m not a mod, nor a frequent poster but have been a lurker/site member for over a year so. Like many others, I have enjoyed and learned from DLD’s posts. Sometimes they are a little verbose and over-exuberant for my taste, but that’s part of his personality. With it comes lots of positives —encouragement, repsonsiveness and perhaps most importantly, some killer techniques.

Likewise, Thunder, along with other forum leaders, has labored long and hard to establish a quality site that is based on the principles of openness, fairness and free of bias. He has resisted back of the magazine gimmicks and ads, all in the interest of bringing legitimacy to PE. So I understand his concern, and perhaps the concerns of other mods, that the site could be used as a marketing tool as has been the case with other PE sites.

It seems reasonable to allow DLD to keep moderator position, but under the stipulation that he not misuse the position to directly market his pay site (I don’t think he deliberately has, though a collective reading of his recent posts does provide quite a bit of detail about the new site — at least more than is necessary to alert the PE public of its existence).

We do have a precedent, if one pauses to think about it. Thunder in a way markets Bib’s hangers (I’m a proud owner of one) through a link at the bottom of the page, yet Bib does not otherwise use the forum to promote them. He provides advice freely to Bib hangers, non-Bib hangers, and non-hangers alike and is very careful in providing advice and letting others draw their own conclusions without influencing them in a way to further any self-interest he might have in selling hangers. It’s a very delicate and tricky balance and I think and he and Thunder have managed it quite well.

I think the same approach could work with DLD, if he, Thunder and the mods were to consider it with clear eyes. We could then all continue to benefit from DLD’s advice and particpation, and in return he would promise greater discretion and sensitivty regarding any mention of his pay site.

What do others think?

TT,

Not a very good comparison I’m afraid - two completely different situations. BIB has given instructions on how to make hangers and many have, but others like myself can’t or aren’t able to, and have the option of buying one.

This isn’t exactly the case with exercises. The comparison would be more like telling the exercises and then selling the video if wanted - and there isn’t much market for that. DLD would soon be out of business.

Also BIB offers help here for guys using his hangers. If DLD offered help on his site’s exercises, why would someone have to go to his site?

One of the questions has been what would DLD do if asked about a certain exercise or his opinion on something which resembles something on his site? It would be very difficult for anyone to give good unbiased advice without compromising the pay site, regardless of the good intentions one may have. Let’s just say there would be quite a few moral dilemmas involved.

This is not true with the hangers.

Conductor,

Tension in this thread is thick therefore, let me address your suggestion and add some humor relief at the same time, I think everyone needs it right about now.

Information that is passed and recieved in this forum is the result of a collaborative effort and exchanging of ideas, therefore when its time to make decisions, it only stands to reason that a majority of them are done in a Democratic fashion. This forum is sort of like a form of government whereby Thunder is the President, the Mods are like the Senators and Congressmen and the rest of us are like the common people with maybe some Mayors and Councilmen and whatnot running about for office. Everyone has a chance to be heard and state their opinion.
I would imagine the main decisions will made in the Moderator forums (White house) As President, Thunder always retains the right to veto the votes. However some people dont pay their taxes and still want to vote,i.e.,support Thunders Forum.

Guiri,

I think those potential conflicts apply, whether it’s a product or advice.

For example, if someone asked Bib which of the two, the AFB or Bib Hanger was a better product to start hanging with, how is there not a conflict there? I don’t know if Bib has ever been confronted directly with the question, but I expect he would either not answer the question and state why or provide a thorough and objective answer as possible of the pros/cons of either product and let the individual decide.

The same situation could arise with DLD when asked about a certain technique on the forum. He provides too much information, then that supposedly compromises his site. He provides too little and refers to his site for the full answer, then that compromises the forum.

There is some “damned if you do, damned if don’t” to all this, but if you look at each question or issue that would arise on a case-by-case basis, I suspect there is a way to thread the needle.

While I’m not privy to all the inside details, I do think DLD has reacted, as is his want, in an overly emotional way and his annoucement of his intent to establish a free forum page on his site looks to be a direct shot across Thunder’s bow (DLD may be shooting himself in the foot in the process). I do think there is value to all of us in having DLD remain active on the Board, provided he concur in being more discrete vis a vis mention of his own site. If he needs “moderator” status and a little stroking to bring him back into the fold, so be it. If he spurns the overture, then he has cast his own lot and should go his own way.

Tally