Do orgasms hinder PE gains?

This has apparently been an unresolved issue forever. Perhaps if this was a big issure- if masturbation to orgasm did in fact hinder or help gains- this might have been resolved already. Time after time we hear people tell us to abstain from orgasm for no reason at all, or "because I know it intuitively" or "because your hormones change" but unless this is expounded on it just doesn’t cut it. One wonders if this is our Judeo-Christian guilt-laden upbringing simply telling us subconciously that "abstinence is next to Godstinence", or whatever. I would like to hear (particularly from the big gainers) what reasons there would be to follow abstinence for best PE gains, or not to worry about ejaculation.

I have seen and read many threads addressing this already and here are a few for background reading. Please anyone read before you post.

Question

masturbation

To Jerk or not to Jerk?

A couple thoughts of my own. I like to masturbate often, but if there are legitimate reasons why this will limit gains, I would cut back. But I have not really heard any compelling reasons, except possibly these:
Memento:
…Good question, and a point of contention when it comes to masturbation directly after PE. I doubt it, sounds like more erections and more blood in the penis to aid repair.

My take on this is that masturbation will produce a lot of blood flow into and out of the penis. This will carry nutrients which can aid repair (which we don’t want!) During masturbation blood is flowing, as in Jelqing, but no significant tissue damage is being done to the penis. Hence it results in accelerated healing. However, ejaculation is irrelevant to this argument. By this argument it is the masturbation that could limit gains. If its true, and one feels he must masturbate, a quicky is best. Uli’s are fine because there is not significant blood flow in or out, jelqs are fine because there is tissue damage which is a much larger factor than the temporary increased blood flow in or out. Is there any merit to this argument? How much healing could occur from a masturbation session? Are tissues in the penis like seives, which trap the necessary proteins required for healing as increased blood flows through the penis?

It has also been mentioned that if we don’t ejaculate the penis remains more engorged rather than more flaccid at least temporarily. But by the above argument this is not a good thing! That is, more blood will be flowing to the penis which will result in faster healing. I doubt that the level of engorgement is enough for tissue damage for further gains. Should we ice our penises after working out, to reduce blood flow??

But the engorgement after PE may be enough so that the penis heals in a slightly engorged state, moreso than when we ejaculate, which could result in larger gains?? (Does ejaculation really decrease engorgement significantly?)
Moreover, over what course of time does the tissue heal, and how does that compare to the time it takes our penises and hormone levels to return to normal after ejaculation? I think our penisis heal on a time scale of about a day (or more?) and I think our hormones return to normal after about an hour (give or take). Hence the "extra" engorgement from not ejaculating would seem irrelevant. If someone has these numbers pinned down I would like to hear about that.

People have questioned whether ejaculation speeds healing and I share that skepticism as well:
lil12big1:
If you cut your face shaving does ejaculating slow down [my add: or speed up] the healing process? …This is a question that has often been debated and nobody has yet come up with a conclusive answer. For every guy who attributes gains through abstinence there is another who claims that regular masturbation after a PE session has not affected his growth.

That is, it is hard to believe that the differing hormone levels would increase the healing process, or would be a bigger factor than the mechanical issues of increased blood flow above.

One of the big gainers, cutemikey, regularly Jelqs to orgasm, and has gained approx 3 inches length as well as serious girth gains, from what is mentioned in his posts.

So, if anyone has any scientifically based reasons to contribute as to why masturbation OR orgasm is limiting to gains, or might even help with gains, or are essentially irrelevant, please let us all know so we can help put this issue to rest.

Thanks and keep gaining,
Skinnee

Well I’m no scientist but….

I think that masturbating after jelqing is not so good because after ejaculating the penis loses it’s pumpness (:D ) . So, for jelq sessions, no cumming.

For Stretching, I always masturbate before and during stretching to maintain total flaccid state.

penewbie,
You just did what I mentioned in the 3rd sentence of my post. Please PEers, no dismissive opinions- I am looking for either:

1) Logical or scientifically-based reasons for believing orgasms help, hinder, or have no effect on gains. or,

2) Data that confirm or deny the theory above. i.e. please report your current gains and when you masturbated or didn’t masturbate. For example, the fact that cutemikey has gained 3” by jelqing to orgasm seems to disprove the statement that ejaculation has any bearing on gains. You might say he could have gained more, but how much more than 3” should you expect in 3 years (actually I’m not sure exactly over what period of time he gained his 3” and I hope he posts here to clarify).

I masturbated whenever I liked and I gained 1” in length and girth over the past year to year and half. Of course that’s not enough to settle the issue for me, and that’s why I hoped to hear from the big gainers.

Please post theory or data,
Skinnee

I don’t know if I qualify as a big gainer, but I’d say fuck it. I’ve always masturbated and if I wouldn’t, it’d be impossible for me to do my stretching exercises. Also it’s healthy for your prostate if you ejaculate no other way regularly.

I’ve always masturbated and I’ve gained 3.8 cm of lenght and 2.5 cm of girth. This in the timeframe of 9 months.

I have done it and I would compare it to eating a Big Mac and then going to run three miles. You are still running and exercising, but its just not as comfortable or effective.

LOL! Poor SkinneeD… :D Hey, what do you expect? It’s AWFULLY a lot of text! ;)

Shit… :head:

bluepenguin: I have done it and I would compare it to eating a Big Mac and then going to run three miles. You are still running and exercising, but its just not as comfortable or effective.
While I agree it may not be as comortable to jelq or hang after masturbating or ejaculating, this only addresses the issue of whether masturbation (with or without ejaculation) may hinder gains indirectly via comfort reasons.

For example many runners eat and then run several miles directly afterwards (I did all the time when I was running). They still got in shape or stayed in shape.

If you mean to say that you won’t work out as hard because your penis is more fatigued, its also true that our penises get fatigued by a good jelqing session- that wont stop me from putting in another set. If one runner eats a hamburger and runs 8 miles, he’ll be in better shape than another runner who doesn’t eat and runs 2 miles.

So then masturbating is an unproductive use of 15-30 minutes. If those are the only consequences of it than I have no problem with masturbating. But I think there are other concerns that people have raised before though, and I would like to see those addressed.

Well, as a newbie I get to ask newbie questions.

Can someone please explain to me why we don’t want damage quickly repaired? Seems to me that this is exactly what we do want. This is precisely what bodybuilders and every kind of athlete I’ve ever heard of wants. At the very least, you want to be as completely healed as possible prior to your next workout. Don’t you?

I have this idea that people are thinking of “micro-tears” as things that can be held open and stretched apart as they heal over long periods of time. But this is not the case with either muscle or normal connective tissue. Is the penis somehow different?

And, for that matter, when we stretch “white” connective tissue (by increasing range of movement or increasing muscle size) micro-tears aren’t even the responsible mechanism. It’s more of a physiological response to tension. So I’m not really sure that micro-tears, as such, are what’s going on in PE for the most part. I’m assuming here that it’s the white tissue in the penis that is the focus of PE since the softer tissues would stretch more easily and quickly. But maybe I’m wrong? I need to ask these things.

Busted Bus

That is your priviledge, yes. ;)

We do want damage to be repaired quickly. We just want it to be repaired “our way”. ;)
…that is… I want my dick repaired as longer and thicker. :up:

“Micro-tears” don’t heal in matter of seconds, in real life. Wolverine is different. He’s a mutant.

Since you like to refer in to the world of bodybuilding, why do you think your muscles get sore hours, in some cases even days, after training?

I’m not trying to increase my dicks range of movement, or trying to increase any muscles size by stretching my ligaments. I’m trying to pull my dick out of my body by doing so. If creating microscopic tears in the connectivity tissue isn’t what stretching does, then what is the “physiological response” you are talking about?

The target of the stretch is depending on the situation, either ligaments (white connective tissue from which your dick is attached to your pubic bone) or tunica (your “inner penis”, kinda like your inner child, but more of a physical thing….unless you are pregnant). Ofcourse in tunica, there are several kind of tissues and it’s the most “hardest one”, the part that doesn’t give in that is stretched.

Hey Base,

Ya know, I reread my post and decided that it sounded a little confrontational. It wasn’t supposed to be. Ummmm…. sorry?

In response:

>”Micro-tears” don’t heal in matter of seconds, in real life. Wolverine is >different. He’s a mutant.
>
>Since you like to refer in to the world of bodybuilding, why do you think >your muscles get sore hours, in some cases even days, after training?

Surely you are correct about that! Didn’t mean anything about seconds, or even hours. In any case, I’m pretty sure that the tears don’t hang around much longer than a day. Soreness also results from poor waste removal, cellular swelling (which causes friction), and who knows what else.

Or I could have been taught wrong and the above is nonsense. <laugh>

>I’m not trying to increase my dicks range of movement, or trying to >increase any muscles size by stretching my ligaments.

Well, that’s not the point. I was only pointing out that these are two other ways that we stretch connective tissue, and that “ideally” no kind of tearing is involved in either case.

>If creating microscopic tears in the connectivity tissue isn’t what >stretching does, then what is the “physiological response” you are talking >about?

Ever grown cucumbers or similar fast-growing vine in a garden? (Hopefully the answer is yes. If not, then the following is a nifty experiment you can try sometime.) Did you ever watch on a nice warm day how touching the vines several inches from the end would cause them to bend?

My brother and I used to go out and rest pencils against them and after about 20 minutes of constant pressure the vine would have wrapped around the pencil three or four times. Let go and the vine has grabbed ahold and will hold the item up in the air. Do this with about 25 pencils and pens and it looks like it’s growing them instead of cucumbers! It also annoys your mom.

So anyway, cells have ways of judging pressure and tension. And connective tissue will make an attempt grow in the direction of tension in order to relieve that stress. No tearing necessary. It just wants to conform to the environment.

The above are defenses of my reasoning, but I’m not trying to make an argument based on that reasoning. I was really just asking if the same things apply to a penis, or if a penis really is somehow different from the other things I’m familiar with.

Hope this wasn’t too long,

Busted Bus

I’ve always thought about masturbating around a PE workout to be like running a 40-yard dash, or for some people, doing the 110 m hurdles, and the PE workout itself to be kinda like a leg workout. I know this is oversimplified and it doesn’t translate directly, but bear with me.

I would think running that proverbial 40-yard dash after you work out would just tax your recovery ability beyond what it already has been through, thus slowing down the recovery process. Can I prove this with numbers? No, and I doubt that anybody has done any actually research on the matter. And does ejaculation make your dick deflate after a workout? Yes it does. Does this adversely affect gains? I don’t know.

Peace,
Taz

skinneeD,

Thanks for the quote (bastard),

I’m with base and here is why.

Firstly what are we talking about when we are talking about micro-tears:

Cells will distend to a degree but I think in PE we are getting over that and actually pulling cells further apart creating small tears.

When a large breach is created and regeneration takes prohibitively long, the resultant tissue is scar tissue and this cannot be vascularised and has less strength than normal tissue, so if further breaking occurs it would seem likely to happen along the scar tissue creating yet more scar tissue. Over time it would seem that if this occurs the penis would end up with large amounts of scar tissue and lots of areas poorly served for nutrients.

If large breaches were a good thing I’m sure the PE market would contain devices to slash multiple holes in the tunica through pinprick incisions in the skin and PE would be a case of slashing holes, popping your todger in an ADS device, waiting a week and doing the same again.

So I think good PE is about keeping up good circulation and repairing tissue quickly so that you can carry on growing.

An almost entirely different subject is the strength of the bonds between cells.

I can’t say that my thoughts are terribly scientific or indeed that they qualify as thoughts but [insert appropriate excuse].

memento:
skinneeD,
Thanks for the quote (bastard),
Anytime mem ;)

My reasoning was based on another debate where which was never really settled to my knowledge: The Experiment
But which I came out on the side that many frequent workouts were better than one long one.

My opinion is that a half-hour workout morning and night will be better for your gains than a 2 hour workout every other day. Taking the extreme, an hour a day will get you gains, a 7 hour workout on Sunday will get you injured. I think gains come when your body is healing microtears, which are always there under any considerable stress, while the penis is continuing to be stressed. So the healing never fully recovers but the body still has an enhanced blood flow to the area and is still thinking it has to keep repairing and growing cells (in contrast to bodybuilding).

This may be bollocks, but nearly all big gainers PEd regularly, put in many hours (with the biggest gainers putting in several hours each day), and rarely took extended breaks.

So I think good PE is about keeping up good circulation and repairing tissue quickly so that you can carry on growing.
So you would say that masturbation is likely to be good for gains, by bringing blood and nutrients to the penis? I guess I misquoted you earlier, sorry bout that :)

I’m not sure we want to accellerate healing to the area. But I could see the whole process of stress and healing being accellerated by masturbation, which I guess would be OK if you plan to PE again soon. I don’t think we want the ligs/tunica to heal completely before we stress it again. I think we want to stress them again in a semi-weakened state.

Skinnee

bustedbus, hope all this is helping to answer your questions, please feel free to post more here- particularly on masturbation/orgasm and whether they hinder/help gains.

Taz:
And does ejaculation make your dick deflate after a workout? Yes it does. Does this adversely affect gains? I don't know.
The time-scale on which tissue heals is much longer than the time it takes your penis to deflate/inflate after orgasm, so I have serious doubts that this adversely affects gains.

Skinnee