Girth theory: Pumping vs. clamping

Pudendum, I appreciate your knowledge of erectile physiology. I don’t pretend to know that much about it and don’t intend to question what you say. You provide good references. Blood flow in the penis during erection is apparently very low, or zero, but there is a big difference between zero, as stated in your first reference, and almost zero, as stated in your second.

Sure the penis can withstand low oxygen for “some time” but how much time is that? How much flow is almost no flow? I would guess that even very miniscule flow through the penis during marathon sex can do a lot to prevent oxygen deprivation.

Well, you answer your own question in your next sentence.

There you go. That doesn’t happen with the balloon. Actually it is more accurate to say that blood is forced into the penis by the heart, facilitated by less external pressure on the tissue, allowing it to expand.

I would modify your statement as follows:

Look at it this way: you connect a hose with 60 psi water pressure to a metal tank. there is a pipe on top of the tank with a valve on it. You fill the tank until water is coming out of the pipe, then shut the valve.

The water is still turned on, so there is 60 psi in the tank and hose, but there is no flow in or out.

Now, you magically turn the tank into a rubber walled tank that expands 5% due to the 60 pounds of pressure on it.

The tank has grown in size, water flowed to fill the additional space, then stopped when the system reached equilibrium. The pressure in the tank is still 60 pounds.

That is your penis.

Put a giant cylinder over this tank and pull a vacuum. The tank will grow more, water will flow into it, it will reach equilibrium, and the pressure will still be at 60 pounds.

The balloon full of water is much different:

Take the same example of the full tank.

This time you shut off the hose first with a valve at the tank where the hose connects to the tank. ( a knot in your balloon!)

Then you magically turn the walls in to rubber as before.

The tank grows due to the internal pressure, and as the tank grows, the pressure drops. It reaches equilibrium at some size smaller than the tank in example one, and the pressure is something less than the original 60 pounds.

Now put a giant cylinder over this tank and pull a vacuum. The tank will not grow more as in the first example.

The difference is the pump. The heart in your body, or the pump at your city water department. The balloon is a closed system, and the penis is not, because it is connected to your heart, even if there is no flow, there is pressure applied from the outside, just like that hose connected to the full and closed, tank.

I get your point.

But let us look yet from an other angle, or from two other angles.

The negative pressure outside of the penis would increase it’s volume and increase the pressure inside of the corpora cavernosa. This is true but irrelevant for dick growth. The tunica is only interested in wall stress. Wall stress depends on volume, not on pressure.

The other point I made already some time ago is that in pumping the cavernosa are open towards the remaining circulation. Therefore, if the volume increases in the corpora because of tunica expansion there is a net influx of blood into the corpora. The pressure will tend to remain constant.

Sorry - I didn’t see that the master already spoke on the subject.

I noticed the same phenomenon, so your explanation is probably right.

However, what exactly happens at the place were one places the hanger. There is local compression but no shape deformation. Or is there such a thing? (I am mostly using a vac hanger, I cannot speak from experience).

Mrvag,

Thanks for your clarifications, I was hoping someone with a physical (rather than physiological) background would chime in.

Coming back to the question originally asked in this thread: difference between pumping and clamping.

Would you be so kind and try to come to some sort of preliminary answer if not a conclusion?

Mrvag’s example of a metal tube vs. A condom (with the penis somewhere in between) is a very good concept. All our (sofar often incorrect) use of assumptions and formulas regarding pressure are distracting our view from the essential common point between clamping and pumping:

The V O L you M E effect.

I may be repeating myself, but it is the total volume of blood and the consequently stretched volume of the tunica and related structures that is relevant, because it is the volume change that is transformed into

A W A L L E X T E N S I O N and

A W A L L S T R E S S effect.

I would hypothesize that it is the increased wall extension and increased wall stress that ultimately causes physical deformation and biologic effects, which, in concert induce penis growth.

The volume effects are ultimately consequences of pressure effects, as described quite convincingly be mrvag.

An important difference between clamping and pumping is that the “balloon” is open to the rest of the circulation it the case of pumping, but that the balloon is closed (clamped) in the case of clamping.

Doesn’t this concept violate the concept of incompressibility (=inexpandibility) of fluids? (Is the compliance of a fluid really zero?).

Fascinating information (poll) regarding our topic:

To what do you contribute most of your girth gains?

My feeling is that mravg is right on this specific point. Even when clamping, seem to me that a minimal flow exist in the penis.

A 100% erection could maybe cease any blood-flow, but a 100% erection is near an ideal thing. Erections we have the most of time are under 100% of intensity.

But, returing on the topic of this thread, there is any difference in pressure effects on tunica, when pumping Vs. clamping?

Good catch. I envisioned a very very small amount of tank growth due to the softening of the walls which would drop the pressure to zero. You are actually right, the fluid wouldn’t grow. The pressure might drop due to changes in stress in the tank wall, but really that wouldn’t be tank growth.

I agree, although the technical knowledge is great, how does this apply to the question or help us get better girth gains?

Thanks for asking, but as you can see, I am an engineer who thinks in terms of pumps, tanks, and pipes. I have never pumped my penis, so I’m not sure how good an answer I can give.

A couple of general things which were probably already mentioned earlier:

1. It sounds like we have a general idea of how much pressure differential is created by pumping (200mm Hg normal erection pressure + 150 mm Hg caused by the drop in external pressure (6 inches Hg). So the force on the tunica may be close to doubled from normal. I think Pudendum gave us these numbers. But how does that compare to the pressures involved in clamping? I expect clamping creates more pressure, but it would be nice to have some data.

2. A lot of the nerves, veins and arteries (and I suppose lymph vessels) in the penis are external to the corpora. When you put the penis inside a vacuum, the pressure in those vessels causes them to expand, their walls to get thinner, and this appartently leads to leakage and probably harmuful effects.

On the other hand, when you increase pressure in the corpora, the vessels outside of it are compressed, not expanded, and that apparently is less risky.

Therefore it seems to me that the stress you can apply to the tunica by vacuum pumping is limited by potential damage to other structures in the penis caused by the vacuum. The stress you can apply with clamping is probably greater because there is less of a negative effect on the other structures from the internal pressure, and the pressure is mainly just effecting the tunica.

One caveat I would add is that when clamping at full erection, the capillaries in the skin are stressed to the max as well. There are harmful effects caused by the clamping that is not caused by pumping.

Yes, good point. You can tell from the bruising that clampers get that the pressure in those vessels is high and can be damaging.

So my thought on the differences is not an adequate explanation. I’ll have to think about it some more.

Hi,

Sorry, I’m e lazy guy, so I only managed to read the first 3 pages. But really interesting thread.
I’m not an anatomy expert. So I only can tell how it worked for me.

I gained more from clamping than I did from pumping.
I get little fluid build-up from pumping, and none from clamping.
I had no injury with pumping. I got 1 thrombosed vessel from clamping.

Even if I could use a little more length and girth, I’m now really satisfied and proud of my size.
So I nearly stopped all exercises that can cause me injuries ( I only talk for my dick ).
So now I only do pumping, followed by a moderate pressure clamping session, and from time to time, a little jelq.

So, for me :
Clamping at high pressures gave me the best results, but I find it more dangerous.
I do really prefer pumping, even if it less effective for me, and I do like the feeling.

Happy new year!