Girth theory: Pumping vs. clamping

If the gains are caused by the pressure differential from the inside to the outside of the corpus cavernosa, then pumping is going to cause a greater differential. Someone commented that the fluid buildup beneath the skin will lessen the pressure within the penis. I disagree. The skin is incredibly stretchy, and it can easily expand to accommodate the CC. If I wanted, I could pump my penis to a much higher internal pressure than I could ever achieve using internal blood pressure.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying that clamping doesn’t work. People have achieved results with both methods, and both of them should, theoretically, have a similar effect on the penis. I use a pump because for me, it is easier.

Sam1966 - I don’t think that you are entirely correct, rather, if you are pumping, the following might occur:

Let us assume that one uses a 5 inch Hg vacuum, and assume that the pressure in the corpus cavernosum is 0 inch Hg, for the sake of simplicity, then there is a pressure difference of 5 inch Hg between the tube and the atmosphere.

My assumption would be that there is a pressure drop from 5 inch Hg to 1 or so inch Hg from the tube to the tissue under the skin. This pressure expands the tissue under the skin and causes swelling. The remaining pressure drop of 1 inch Hg to 0 inch Hg would then occur between the corpus cavernosum and the tissue under the skin. Therefore, only 1 inch Hg would be available to increase the wall stress in the tunica.

The numbers are totally arbitrary, but the idea is probably correct: that only a smaller proportion of the pressure indicated on your pressure gauge is ultimately transformed into wall stress of the tunica. By contrast, every inch Hg pressure increase during clamping is 100 % translated into an increase of the wall stress in the tunica.

Having never pumped or clamped before, my opinion isn’t very reliable. But TTT, what you are saying makes sense. I still see pumping as a technique to try, however, since people have gained with it.

If this is true, why do I still get fluid build up and get a donut when I clamp? If 100% of the pressure is within the walls of the tunica, I don’t think I would have a problem in this area.

Right.

The lymph system is engaged from certain stresses, but it doesn’t really have to do with internal vs external pressure. Either can cause it.

tickers assumptions do not make a compelling argument if you ask me. While lymph build-up may absorb some internal pressure I doubt it’s a significant amount.

The reason donuts are not desireable is not that they will adversely affect gains, it’s because the skin will eventually stretch out and that won’t look so nice.

One can wear a condom while pumping or a heavy duty silicone sleeve, which puts pressure on the skin and holds it down, but the internal expansion remains the same. The lymph build-up is lessened, because the stress is mitigated specifically.

One can pump to the same degree of expansion, though; despite the extra mass. It can actually get fatter and longer in the tube.

One can pump at higher hg levels this way too.

If done without a silicone sleeve, you’ll get the donut effect, but you still get the same expansion.

I don’t see the logic of these assumptions working with thesis, ticker. Just like wad’s assertion that pumping and clamping are the least permanent. Says who?

I’d say the permanence of these techniques, has to do with one’s physiology and how, how well, and how consistently they are applied.

PEforeal got all his gains from the pump. They seem pretty permanent. Mine too for that matter.

Also, overall, pumping is a safer activity, with a wider margin for error than clamping. It’s true that any of these methods can be abused, but the risk of permanent damage is not as high with a pump.

Donuts go away pretty fast, and you can even get hard while you have them. One wrong move with a clamp and you can be in real trouble, and be sidelined from both PE and sex while you recover.

Pumping cause loose skin; clamping doesn’t. This sould proove that significant amount of pressure is absorbed by the space between skin and tunica, when pumping.

I never experienced fluid build-up by clamping; to be honest, I never have read before of somebody having limph-troubles with clamping.

It’s true that you could augment the amount of pressure with the pump at the same levels of clamping, but it would not be safe, as vets advice: I did read of guys having ED by using excessive amount of pressure with pump, but never heard of ED caused by clamping. Clamping it’s a dangerous techinque, but with it you will not have that “gum-penis” that pump could cause, if it’s clear what I mean. Clamping will give you an harder penis, not a softer penis - at least if you don’t provoke an injury to yourself.

By what I know, peforeal had fine results with pumping, but the total amount of time needed for that was far higher than the total amount of clamping that even the more dedicated to this method have done. This should means that clamping is more effective.

I like both. They each have their positives/negatives but I feel that both can be incorporated in a routine while maintaining a symbiotic relationship.

Hogwash. On both counts. Big Girtha - clamping enthusiast extraordinaire - had tons of loose skin on his flaccid. I have hardly any, and certainly no more than I had pre-pumping days.

This is simply not true.

You are hereby informed then. The lymphatic system is typically engaged with a variety of PE practices. It’s a question of degree. Over-pumping just pulls the fluid out to the skin surface more directly. Your lymph nodes are reacting when you clamp, guarantee it. You just may not see it as clearly as with a donut.

Comments like this make me wonder what PE forum you belong to.

Clamping is generally recognized as a dangerous practice - an advanced technique that requires a solid knowledge of PI’s and just the right touch. It is very easy to inadvertently injure yourself with clamp - and yes, make it difficult, even painful, to get an erection. No boners or a boner you can’t use = ED.

Just so you know: pumping doesn’t soften your penis.

Why say “more effective” when you mean really mean “faster”?

I would just like to add that pumping, at appropriate levels and for appropriate amounts of time, is recommended by urologists. Done properly it can promote blood flow and help to flush plaques, etc., and keep the penis healthy. Just as nocturnal erections can. This practice is recommended by doctors to help patients with serious ED.

While it’s true that extreme misuse of a pump at high hg levels can also cause ED, it has to be acknowledged if it is used properly the pump is a versatile tool to promote overall penile health and maybe even a gain or two here and there.

You will never find a urologist who recommends clamping. Anywhere.

Even Big Girtha’s urologist, who watched his penis change as he took up PE and made some significant gains - and improve his EQ - over a year or so, told him that clamps should be used for cables. She had known the details of his practices and obviously had seen all his positive results.

I personally don’t have anything against clamping, and it does seem to be effective for some, but it is -no contest- the more dangerous of the two practices. There’s a wide margin for error with a pump. With a clamp one wrong tear and your tunica is fucked, and then take weeks or months for it to heal - with the possibility it may never.

Used with caution great results are clearly possible with a clamp, but to advance the idea that’s superior to using a pump is irresponsible for a number of reasons.

Particularly when a central theme surrounds faulty ideas about how far hg pressure penetrates based on the obstacle of skin and a little lymph fluid.

That’s just plain silly.

If you like clamping and are careful and get good results from it, then by all means keep it up. But please don’t post theoretical nonsense and half-assed speculation about hg pressure and lymph fluid as a way of bad-mouthing a proven technique that is relatively safe and effective.

It’s just ignorant.

Mr Happy, absolutely everything I’ve ever found on the subject of pumping has indicated that it is *not permanent* (except regarding the literature of pump peddlers).

Dr Joel Kaplan, one of the early gurus of pumping, has had his run-ins with FDA. After years of pressure by the FDA (based upon the extensive research of the medical community), Kaplan finally agreed to work with them…then he backed out (why? because he knows that pumping does not produce permanent gains - or else why didn’t he participate?).

Pumps were designed for guys with medical conditions (usually, but not limited to, diabetes). The men were supposed to slide a custom-sized ring over the penis - down to the base - then pump it to erection. The ring then “pinched” the blood in the penis, trapping it long enough for the man to remove the pump & engage in sexual intercourse.

Of course, it wasn’t long before guys began to “overuse” the pumps (including guys with no medical conditions at all). And nobody denies that the pumps can produce a pronounced short-term enlargement (mostly due to fluid buildup). But one medical study after another has concluded that vacuum pumping does not produce *permanent* gains.

I was not intially biased against pumping (I explored all forms of PE, without reservation). Before I would buy a pump, however, I did a lot of scouring. Several years ago, I poured through several internet forums for pumpers - and the general consensus of even these hardcore users lamented the non-permanence of pumping.

One guy wrote, “…this shit permanent? When? I’ve been pumping for 20 years, and if I stop I go right back to square one.”

That sentiment was the common view. Guys stated various reasons for pumping - the enjoyment of the sensations, the better sex afterwards with their huge liquid woody, etc… but nobody even claimed that they gained permanent size.

Another guy wrote that while his ability to grow in the tube increased dramatically over time, he too had gained no permanent size whatsoever (as evidenced by a recent break from pumping).

So, Mr Happy, the onus isn’t on me - its upon those who claim that pumping IS permanent, which no studies or even anecdotal reports from pumper’s forums would seem to support.

P.S., I’ve posted about this before, so I’ll refrain from details. My assertion is based upon the physiology of pumping; and while clamping is not exactly the same, the fluid retention is similar (as are the faux boner measurements).

I believe that the ONLY Pe that is *permanent* is Mechanical PE (i.e., “manual,” “hanging,” or time-based extender/stretchers). So, I never mislead anybody otherwise.

I understand your point of view, Wad. The same point of view is expressed all over the net, along with a lot of general negativity to the effect that pumping is completely dangerous.

However, how do you explain that I got an inch of L and significant girth increase after 5 months of pumping only, measured at least 24 hrs after a pump session? - no other mechanical or manual work. At that time I didn’t even know about stretching and jelking, or the rest. Further, the only injury I ever sustained in PE occurred after I tinkered around with Horses and extreme Ulis. None from pumping except one donut experience and some red spots when I exceeded my self-set rule about vacuum pressure limits.

Even my urologist, btw, said before I started pumping (for ED), “Don’t be surprised if your penis gets larger.” :)

One more thought: I really WISH that pumping produced permanent enlargement!

Hell, that’s the easiest thing in the world to do…it’s easier than manual (which can be grueling on the hands), it’s easier than hanging (you have to fiddle with the hanger - which I could never get right, you have to usually sit upright, and have weights dangling between your legs, you have to remove the hanger every 15-20 minutes, and hanging requires a lot of total time).

But if a guy could sit on his lazy ass (or even lie in bed watching TV), stick his dick in a tube and let the vacuum do all the work, then every guy in America would be swinging a 10- to 12-inch dick….even if the setup costed $1,000 - it would be worth it.

Some guys combine pumping with mechanical PE - but how to separate the wheat from the chaff?

With gains from mechanical PE, a guy could take off cold turkey for 15+ months (like I did) with absolutely minimal losses [and not continuing losses], provided the gains were “cemented.”

Let a pumper or a clamper take off 15 days…then take a measurement. (the proof is in the pudding)

avocet, just saw your post, lol.

Have you done exclusively pumping? If so, have you quit & retained your gains?

If you say yes, I’ll abide by your word……..and regard you as a rarity.

Okay, wad, but my belief is different. My experience tells me otherwise.

Just like this: there are those that say all PE is bunk, too. Our experience tells us otherwise.

It also seems, if one thing only is clear, it’s that there are different people responding differently to different things. So as to what defines “effective” PE technique - who’s to say. You? Forgive me, but I don’t think you are qualified. You know why? Because no one is.

The safety angle is a different story. There’s plenty of evidence right here on this forum as to the dangers of each techique. The clamp wins the most dangerous award (well, except for the ballpeen hammer, or the guy who wanted wasps to sting his dick - you gotta admit, those were beauties.), it just does. Of the more typical PE practices it holds the most risk.

It’s also clear that knowledge of the risks can make clamping into an effective means of gaining. If the requisite care is taken.

In my experience, pumping offers good temporary gains, which quickly recede on the way to smaller gains which are permanent, but incremental. It seems to me consistent, but consevative hg levels with it offer the opposite of risk, but concrete aid to the health of the penis.

It’s an overall helpful tool with smaller risk. Used properly there is no risk.

With the clamp there is always an element of risk, even if used properly.

To me that’s a tangible difference.

Perhaps the pump and the clamp are as you say: capable of only granting faux gains of limited duration. I think more people than just me will disagree with that assertion, or I should say ‘those assertions’.
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I know you read a lot. You’re entitled to your beliefs, certainly. Thanks for spelling them out so clearly. You’re very generous in that regard.

Merry Christmas! (:

I am a clamper and have taken 15+ days off with no loss in gains. I think clamping is a different animal from pumping as it is working from the inside out instead of the outside in(pumping). Clamping forces EVERYTHING to engorge with blood and those that are experiencing lymph build up are clamping too tightly and need to back off a tooth or two and work on engorgement only. And I really don’t see how clamping isn’t considered a modified manual exercise as you can build up more pressure in the structures of the penis than just jelging alone. I clamp to AVOID lymph buildup and the only build-up I get and it’s minimal at best is in my foreskin (uncircumcised). The rest is firm, solid and usable after a session. I’ve gained more than an 1” clamping over the last 1.5-2 yrs and haven’t lost any gains to date