Less is more or more is more?

It would; I would suggest that it be qualified as dlm4 characterizes it - on the basis of personal experience, not general philosophy. While I am a "less is more" kind of guy personally, I recognize that there is no "one size fits all" approach to PE, and that some members need more force than others to achieve results.

That, by the way, is the genius of SparkyX’s guidelines on PIs and EQ. With those as evaluative tools, the individual can tune their PE program to their own individual responses.

Physiologic Indicators (PIs) to help growth!

Warning! If you haven’t gotten improved erections:

I am in the more is more category.

Also, in general for gaining girth, I strongly believe more is more…at least for myself.

So I wonder if “more is more” just equals a tougher tunica with possibly more layers(hard gainer), and “less is more” simply means a possibly softer tunica with less layers(easy gainer)? And if that is the case, then I wonder what the percentages are of us that have one or the other. Since some men have only one layer in their tunica and others have two to three. There are men that never experience gains no matter what they do. Could it be that these people have three layers, a simple hard gainer has two layers, and an easy gainer has only one? I know, if it was only that simple right? However, if that were the case, we could develop routines that would be more beneficial to both. Not that these routines don’t already exist of course, but we could get a little more scientific about it. Also, if we new the percentages, we could say that 33% would be easy gainers, 33% would be hard gainers, and 33% will probably not see any gains at all. What ever the numbers turned out to be, it would give us an idea of possible success and failure rates. Of course, the failure rates would vary because of people and their tenacity or lack their of.

So what about ligs? I saw an interview with Carson Palmer a couple of years ago, he is the QB for the Bengals if you don’t already know. He was talking about how he is just not a flexible person. The guy could not even touch his toes! A professional athlete that cant even touch his toes? Well I have been pretty athletic in my life as well, and I have always been the same way. I could stretch and stretch, yet could never seem to be able to become limber and flexible like others seemed to be able to do easily. So do you think that there may be a correlation? If a person is generally a flexible person and/or they have no problem getting that way by stretching, could it be that they may be able to stretch there ligs easier than someone who just isn’t a flexible person all around? When stretching parts of your body, your stretching muscle, tendons, ligs, etc…

There is always the chance that if you are a hard tunica gainer, you may still get gains from stretching your ligs. However, those gains would be limited. As you can only gain so much thru your ligs. Is it possible that you can be an easy lig gainer, and a hard tunica gainer? Or, a hard lig gainer, and an easier tunica gainer? What about those that never gain, are they just hard gainers in both areas? Or is it that the two may just go hand in hand. If your a hard gainer, your just a hard gainer, and your tissues are just more resilient and tougher than those of the easier gainer all around?

My personal experience is I gained about a half an inch in the first 2 to 3 months, and have not had any progress since. I’m sure that first half inch was all in my ligs. I know this is that familiar newbie pop that we all get excited about, don’t you wish it could all just come this easy?! Now getting gains from my tunica as thus far proven difficult at best. Simply stated, I don’t think I have seen any gains from my tunica. However, I’m not negative or giving up. Its all about knowledge and tenacity. My thoughts above are just that, thoughts. I would be interested in hearing your thoughts on this as well.

If I remember correctly I think Iguana or Remek has presented some statistics about the percentage of men having one, two or three layers, with the majority having two layers.

As for flexibility I can say that I have never been able to touch my toes in the way you are thinking about (but I must confess I have never made an effort to achieve it either). Regardless of this I have made newbiegains of 2 cm EL since I started five months ago, must be the ligs.

Really? Cool, I would like to see that. I respect both of those guys. As far as the theory about general flexibility and PE, I will be the first to admit that it could absolutely be bullshit. I am just like you, cant touch my toes, but also got a half inch out of my ligs the first two or three months. However, I think that there are a lot of guys have and can get an inch or much more from there ligs. So, maybe a half inch is something that most of us can get out of our ligs, and the more flexible guys can get more. Provided there is enough inner penis to pull out.

If something is very elastic, it always will return to its original length, right? So, it could be just the adverse of what you are saying, agree?. Just to say…:) .

That’s a very nice post, dlm4. Obviously there’s a whole lot more than what you said to hard/easy gainers, but that a nice 2 cents you put in.

I can touch my toes quite easily, and I don’t practise my flexibility often, so I hope what you said has some truth to it :P.

I don’t think PE will become a science, at least not in the next couple of decades… But you’ve added a nice theory to group of mostly incomplete theories that are PE :) .

So good luck with your tunica gains as well!

You could be right, but I don’t think so. If a person does not continue to stretch they will usually lose a portion of there flexibility, so a maintenance routine is needed. However, a person who has that natural ability to get flexible with a good exercise and stretching routine will not normally tighten up like someone like me, that does not have that natural flexibility. And in the case of PE I think that’s why we have maintenance routines. Look at Wadzillas post, he is starting to lose size after not doing any PE for a very long time. So it sounds like if we have no maintenance routine in place that we will eventually lose at least some of our gains. The same goes for general flexibility as well, but a person who is naturally flexibly will probably always be able to become more flexible than someone that is not.

I would also like to point out that I think that we ALL agree that when starting PE, it is ALWAYS best to start with a less is more approach. That’s why this question is not directed towards newbies. In an earlier post it was asked “less or more than what…the newbie routine?” I would say that is probably a good place to start actually. There are people that can do less than the newbie, or just the newbie routine, and gain for years like this. Yet there are others that have to modify. So if a person is doing an excessive amount of jelqs, higher intensity jelqs, stretching longer or harder, clamping, or hanging…I would say that you might be in the “more is more” camp, but not always. You may be an easy gainer, yet just choose to do these types of exercises.

So let me post another question:

Do you consider yourself to be an easy gainer, a hard gainer, or somewhere in between? And what works for you, less is more, or, more is more?

Wad beliefs he’s loosing gains exactly while recovering elasticity. He could be right or not, but this makes more sense than believing lack of elasticity is the cause of no gains, IMHO.

I am just presenting this as a possibility, not a probability. So basically its just a thought, not a new theory or anything like that. When I am talking about the flexibility issue, I am referring more to lig stretching and not really tunica stretching. Although they may go hand in hand, I really don’t know. I know when you are stretching for flexibility and health you are stretching everything from ligs, tendon’s to muscle. I don’t know, makes sense in my head. Doesn’t mean I’m right though.

I have a lot of respect for you Marinera and I always pay close attention to your threads and post. One thing that I did realize about you along time ago though, is that you always like to play the devils advocate. And honestly that is ok because it very needed. So thank you for responding to my thread. Maybe we can all learn something from this,

Just trying to help, dlm4. And yes, I like to play devil’ advocate. “It’s a ugly job, but someone has to do it.” :D .

Hey no problem!

So let me ask you then, what do you think is the cause of no gains? And Im not neccessarily saying its the cause of no gains, but that it may make gains harder, and take longer to achieve. However, lets face it, there are guys out there that just cant seem to gain anything…why?

These are just guesses, and my beliefs have the same validity than anyone else’ beliefs. I think the most probable causes of no gains are, in lower order of frequency :

a) too much work/intensity;
b) lack of consistence;
c) mistakes in execution of exercises;
d) specifics physiological reasons;
e) psychological/emotive reasons.

Let me explain a bit. The point c) could surprise some of us, but I’ve seen posts here, from people doing PE for months or years, surprisingly also. You can imagine why I’m not doing any example, but the point: too many guys jumps on exercises without reading near anything. Basing on that, what should surprise us is that gross injuries are relatively uncommon.

Points a) and b) are linked: often I heard somebody saying: “I had no time to do my Monday and Tuesday PE work, so today I’m doing the work I missed”. This is summing a mistake to a mistake.

With the point d) I’m referring to unkown illness or such; but also some not illness-related specifics could have a role : in example, a very large amount of elastin in tunica albuginea could means that no matter how much you pull on your penis, he always will return to it’s original shape. A very large girth could be the reason why stretching is ineffective for some (I’ ve a girth of about 6.5”, so I know what I’m speaking of).
On the other hand, I don’t believe multiple layers could be the reason why gains are not coming (this would require some space to explain, so for now take it or leave it).

About the point e) : have you never read: “I measure every other day and gains are not coming”? More generally, anxious people seems to get gains way harder, and this makes them more anxious, and so on….
Neuro-physiological reasons are involved here, that’s my guess. In the group e) I’m also including lack of good sleep; I firmly believe a good sleeping time is one of the foremost pre-requisite for gains.

What do you think about, guys?

I think that A, B, C, and E are all givens. A lot of people will not gain because of these thing, we all know that. I would like to focus more on D. There are people that do well with all the above issues, A, B, C, and E, but still do not gain. So I think this would probably fall under your D category. I have a girth of 6 inches, and I do believe that’s one of the reason that I am having a hard time gain length, but there are people who don’t have a ton of girth and still don’t gain. Interesting what you say about the elastin though. I don’t think I have heard this theory before.