Physiologic Indicators (PIs) to help growth!

At it again, eh ys?

:mutley:

Hehe.. In any case I’ll delete those fun posts in 10 minutes, yna :)

Errr yeah right… Me stupid.. Me no good.. ;)
Of course I can’t even delete _my own posts_ when ten minutes are gone since I posted them… *sigh*
Sorry sparkyx

/me <= shuts up for good now and won’t talk here unless the lig injury is fully healed.

hughGRection,

Right! I would take a few days off until morning and nite wood return full strength. Then start back with a minimum routine and closely watch your PIs. Sounds like you’ve been doing too much!

I wonder if the “growth spurt” is really a “doing the right thing spurt”. When you saw growth, were you doing less than usual? Took a few days off? Used less force? Started back after a lay off?

The gains after a lay off may turn out to be that you have finally recovered, and make gains before you push yourself way into overtraining and excessive scar tissue production again!

I find when I get my gym work out dialed in…I make steady gains.

I really wonder if it will turn out to be the same with PE.

Over and over I see guys who are getting progress, arbitrarily up their work out…and gains slowly stop!

How do they respond to the decreased growth…THEY DO MORE!!!!

I think this concept will lead to more information… that will allow us to get even better results.

I really boils down to the scientific approach. As we slowly eliminate the variables, we can begin to see what is actually doing what.

Right now, we have so many variables that it is hit and miss for the most part.

Sparkyx

I’m not really sure. I haven’t been able to nail down. When I started there was a slow period then I just began to grow and I could have probably done just about anything for growth. I believe that growth really began when I started doing JAI stretches. The jump from 6.75 - 7.0 happened after my first 10 day layoff. The 1/4 inch gain between 11/20/2004 and 12/20/2004 came primarily through hanging with my Captain’s Wrench. I only recently began hanging regularly ( 3 or more days a week ). I also still have a high LOT, its between 10:00 and 10:30 so one would think I could pull another inch out of there before shifting the focus to my tunica. I went ahead and posted my change over time measurements along with the routine that I was doing during each phase.

Date BPEL Inches Inches Gained / Lost Workout

6/20/2004 6.5 ( 10 mintue Jelq + 10 manual stretches )

7/20/2004 6.6 + 0.1 ( 15 minutes Jelq + 20 min manual stretches )

8/20/2004 6.75 + 0.15 ( 100 5 - 7 sec Jelq Reps + 20 min manual stretches )

9/20/2004 7.0 + 0.25 ( 150 rep 5 - 7 sec Jelq w/JAI + 20 min manual stretches. Capt’s Wrench used once weekly for shock routine )

10/20/2004 7.15 + 0.15 ( 200 rep 5 - 7 sec Jelq w/JAI + 20 min stretches, ULIs and Horse Squeezes )

11/20/2004 7.25 + 0.1 ( 220 rep 5 - 7 sec Jelq w/JAI + 30 min of manual stretches. Hang 2 x 20 ( 5lbs ) twice a week )

12/20/2004 7.5 + 0.25 ( 240 jelq 5 - 7 sec reps, JAI w ULIs, 20 min Manual Stretches aided w/Capt Wrench )

1/11/2005 7.5 0 ( Hang 7.5lbs BTC w/Capt Wrench
2 x 20, w 10 minutes between sets
200-300 5 - 7 second jelqs w/JAI
stretches. I also do 10 ULIs and/or
horse squeezes after each 100 reps )

HJ,

You seem to be making slow and steady gains…this is always the BOTTOM LINE POSITIVE PI!

Keep up what you are doing, just make a note of things like your flaccid hang during the day, and your erectile quality and quantity at nite and in the morning.

When you are making your best gains…those are the BEST PIs to go by.

If you hang a long and heavy flaccid all day when you are gaining, use that as a reference.

If you find you are contracted for a period of time after your workouts , use that.

Increased morning and nite wood is always Positive.

You must observe your own indicators when you are doing good, as well as when you are not…and use those to
guide you as to whether you are on the right track.

Let us know what you find…this is a WORK IN PROGRESS!!!

The more PIs we can get, the more accurately we can direct progress, for us all.

Thanks,

Sparkyx

Sparky, awesome thread dude. One more step in the direction of making PE a science.

Thanks Alrdybig!

I would love to have others add any additional observed PIs…especially making note of if it was observed during growth, a plateau or during a loss of gains period. This would be very beneficial is expanding the data base.

Further, if they add what PE they were doing (pumping, clamping,jelquing… etc) we will move this understanding further forward.

Sparkyx

Thanks for the advice sparkyx!

HG,

Get back to us with what you try and how you respond.

The more we fine tune this concept with us and observation…the more functional it will become for everybody!

Thanks,
Sparkyx

I think the best direction to take this thread in at this point is to follow up with personal experience with this concept and we can further refine the procedure.

This is an open invitation to anyone who is working with this concept to post what they are experiencing.

Lets see if we can use this collective brain to accelerate our understanding.

Let me start with my recent experience.

As I have posted before, I was making really good gains with clamped (actually velcro strap) pumping. That is using a velcro strap as a clamp to get an enhanced erection, then using a pump to further increase the net expansive forces.

I had gained about 1/4 inch in a few weeks… then I remembered my medium clamp.

I used it, and found that it produced an even greater expansion while clamped than the strap. Huge erection! When I added the pump…AMAZING!!!

I got so enthusiastic, that instead of once per day at about 15 minutes…I did it 5 times that day for 15-20 minutes each time!

This, in retrospect was WAY TOO MUCH trauma!

I just did it that one day, and it resulted in a loss of a full one half inch!

This was accompanied by loss of nite and morning wood, as well as a real decrease in flaccid hang length and girth.

This also lead to my putting together the concept of PIs.

So, I have been experimenting with some new PE exercises, while closely watching my Physiologic Indicators (PIs).

What I have noticed as I have been experimenting with different PEs, is that I can start to read a more subtle response from my unit that actually helps me make gains.

As of yesterday, I have gotten back to the length I was before I traumatized my unit with the clamped pumping marathon.

What I have noticed is, when I am in the “zone”, my unit may contract slightly immediately after the exercise, but it will “fluff” out within a few minutes.

If I have stimulated it “right” it will remain a longer, fuller flaccid during the entire day.

Further, I find if I am “in the zone”, I find it is easy to get an erection, not much coaxing is needed.

So being the incorrigible experimenter that I am, I decided to try my experiment of 1 minute of clamping for 5-10 times spaced throughout the day.

I was looking for an PE that I can do easily while at work. I am also working off the premise that lesser force used more frequently, is better.

So what I was doing, was clamp, get up to full erection, then 6-ten second kagel holds, then unclamp and go about my business.

What I was watching for was how long my unit would contract for, how long and full my flaccid was after the rebound.

I was also looking to see how easily I would get erect in the clamp.

What I found was that for the first 2-3 times, all the above good signs were there.

I became erect just reaching for the clamp, stayed contracted after ward for just a few minutes, then had a long, full flaccid.

By the time I hit the 4-5 time, I was having to use stimulation to get erect, it was harder to hold my kagels for 10 seconds, and contractions (shrinkage) lasted longer. Also, my flaccids were hanging a little shorter and thinner.

(If I had a little more discipline, I would have stopped the moment I observed ANY decrease in my positive PIs!)

So, by observing more subtle PI’s I think it is safe to say that for now, about 3 one minute clamping sessions are my starting point.

If, with time I see that I am making progress in size, it will confirm I am “in the zone”. That and of course excellent morning and nite wood, as well continued excellent flaccid size.

Further, I will know it is time to increase when even with the 3rd set, I get easily erect and contraction afterward is almost non-existent. At that point I will go to 4 sets/day.

I will continue to add sets in this manner.

This is an example of how to use the major PI points to get you in the game, then use your own observations of more subtle PIs to fine tune your particular routine for optimum gains.

Sparkyx

Ok, I’m going to bump this thread with an update.

This is my current working theory;

I am starting to think that you must get these two PI’s and you WILL get growth;

1) You MUST see expansion DURIING or at least towards the end of your pe exercise.

2) You must see larger fuller flaccid hang most of the day following your exercises.

What I’m finding is, I can get a fairly nice flaccid during the day, but if I wasn’t getting expansion during my PE, I really don’t see progress.

On the other hand, I may get GREAT expansion during my PE, but if it results in shrinkage that lasts more than 30-60 minutes….it means that I OVERDID IT…and I won’t progress, or even REGRESS!

Adding the requirement of expansion during PE, or at least right afterward to the other PI requirements has gotten me back on track of gains.

The one exception is hanging…when I do ADS, it will thin out my penis during, but when I stop and put on the thera-wrap I get a much fuller than normal flaccid as a rebound effect. So with hanging I think you need to see at least longer length during and fullness as an after effect.

When I pump, if I don’t see expansion during the pumping, I don’t gain. If I get expansion, but shrinkage afterward that lasts more than 30-60 minutes, I either don’t gain or actually shrink!

If I get expansion, but very little shrinkage afterward…gains start to accumulate.

The trick is expand the penis without traumatizing it. I think that is why the low to moderate forces, more frequently done seem to have the best long term gains.

Comments and observations are welcome here, the more PI’s we can identify both good and bad, the more reproduceable we can make growth.

Let me make a few observations of my experiences with the therawrap.

I misunderstood how it worked at first. I was expecting it to maintain my erection, or at least part of it.

I thought that the area that is compressed would not benefit.

Here’s what I have found.

The PRIMARY benefit (for me) isn’t in MAINTAINING an erection. It seems I lose most of it initially, sometimes quickly, sometime slowly.

What seems to be the primary benefit is the longer term response.

Because the pressure of the arterial system is higher than the venous system, you get a slow inflation of the penis when it is under constriction with the therawrap.

It seems because it is fairly wide, the forces constrict, but does not occlude the blood vessels.

This constriction combined with the pressure differential leads to the blood in the penis building to much larger volumes than normal.

This leads to an inflated penis, but still allowing enough circulation to maintain good color (oxygenation).

I will have what appears to be 70% of a full erection, but no hardness…
I will be walking around with girth as big as when coming out of a good pump session, but it is soft…?

To me, this is a way of expanding the tissues (and causing cell growth) with little to no stress to your penis.

This strikes me as a near ideal way to use the long time, minimal stress approach. Kinda like ADS.

I don’t think this will in of itself cause a larger erection, rather an almost ideal method to CEMENT the expansion you have achieved with more forceful methods.

The way I have been applying this with some initial impressive results is to pump then wear the wrap tightly while the penis cools.

I then wear it more loosely during sleep, and then tight as I can without discoloration all day.

Doing this, I have seen a 1/4 inch gain in just a few weeks (in girth) erect, and much more flaccid.

The biggest variable I have to deal with is HOW MUCH pumping! It is starting to look like (after observing my PI’s) that 20 minutes daily…IS TOO MUCH!

I know that sounds wrong, but thats what I’m seeing.

If I pump daily at 20 minutes (under 5 in hg) I will start to shrink and lose erectile quality.

If I skip a day, I start to expand again.

It may turn out that 10 minutes daily is best (for me)…I will find out.

I still think that daily stimulation at the lowest level that still causes expansion is best.

I think it is maintaining this expansion without over-traumatizing the tissues is what causes best growth.

I think the longer you can maintain this expansion while not over-stressing the tissue the better. This is where the therawrap is ideal.

But getting back to my previous post, here are my theoretical perimeters for sustained progress….first of all;

I must achieve EXPANSION during my pe. I don’t know if I can do that under 10 minutes without using too high of a pressure (which can overstress my unit causing shrinkage).

Secondly, the expansion cannot cause any real significant rebound shrinkage. This is backed up by erectile quality. Loss of erectile quality or quanity is another sure sign of over-doing the stress.

This is partially helped by therawrap, but if you traumatize the tissues to the point where you are NOT recovered by the next pe session…you will see no growth and probably shrinkage.

I’m still searching for the holy grail of pe, which I believe now to be just enough force to cause expansion, but not so much that it can’t be repeated productively the next day. (It may well be that for some, the time needed for expansion may be extremely close to overtraining, hence for those, the therawrap may be the best way to bridge that gap).

This then would be complimented by the therawrap, to maintain most of the expansion in a non-traumatic way (may even aid repair).

The third, and HIGHLY important factor is HEAT!!!! I find that heat before and during PE, allows greater expansion with far less irritation to the tissue…hence greater net gains (if you allow recovery).

I still believe that newbie like gains can be had by even veterans IF they can nail that very small, precise window of growth.

I have seen it myself, but not yet nailed it down…but I’m getting closer.

Others that have achieved excellent rapid growth also seem to obey these parameters.

For example, heat, short jelquing daily, and having a fairly heavy flaccid hang all day. They almost always report that during the jelquing, they are rather expanded, with usually a healthy redness.

Those that have gotten great gains seemed to have hit the magic amount of stress.

They usually start with fairly short periods of time. Many times they end up will significantly longer times…but almost ALWAYS it was a gradual progression.

They then, during growth periods, seem a heavy flaccid hang almost all day…further indications that they didn’t over do it.

Many times I believe growth stops because they exceed their ability to fully recover before the next session.

The heavy hang during the day also serves to allow the stressed tissues to heal in a mostly expanded state. This then acts as both an indicator of being “in the zone” and stimulation of growth.

Hey, your post really helped! I suffered a little setback in my early PE experience, and your thread about physiological indicators really helped my learn what had happened. I also feel it prepared me for potential future foibles I might experience in PE. Again, Thanks!

Just to add my 2 (Euro-)cents to this:

If you’re looking for your PIs even while exercising you can get good results pretty quick..

As someone else once said (referring to jelqing IIRC): “If it’s not enjoyable you are doing something wrong.”

My interpretation: If exercising is not enjoyable (without much of the sex part of the feeling while eg. jelqing) you are probably overdoing it.