Understanding force thresholds for growth
I think it’s fair to say we don’t really KNOW what exactly is happening when we PE.
On either macroscopic or microscopic level.
We really don’t know if we are getting cell growth, scar tissue build up…any of that.
We have educated guesses…but we really don’t KNOW!
What we do know is that we can achieve larger dicks… and we observe apparent tissue changes (toughening, discoloration, injury, etc.)
I have been using the terms cell growth for low level prolonged forces, and plastic deformation for shorter term medium to high level forces.
The truth is…its merely speculation and an attempt to explain what’s happening.
So, lets just put aside what we are speculating on and lets discuss what we DO know…and let us see if using what we do know,if we can apply some logic in order to be more effective in out PE routines.
I think we can say that when we use modest forces, for longer periods of time…we can see penile expansion with little apparent toughening of the penis.
It seems this approach allows longer periods of expansion before plateaus set in.
I think we can say that when we use moderate to high forces to produce gains…it can allow relatively rapid gains…followed by tissue toughening…then slowed or stopped gains.
When this occurs…usually increasingly higher forces produce little or no additional gains.
It appears a prolonged deconditioning break is the only thing that will allow gains to resume.
What has occurred to me is that it is usually counter productive to mix high force methods with low force methods…or more accurately, it CAN be done, but you must apply reason and know what you are trying to accomplish.
Lets use an example here;
lets just say that I am getting slow gains pumping.
I was wise enough to listen to the Vets like Avocet and I kept my vacuum force under 5 in hg, and did about 3 sets of 10 minutes.
3 in of hg translates to about 5 lbs of hanging wt, so if I kept my vacuum under 5 in hg, it means I kept the force below an equivalent of 10 lbs.
This is low to moderate force.
Lets just say my gains slow after 6 months, and I decide to try Avocets recommendation of adding jelquing.
Now jelquing force, depends on your grip and stretch, but lets say I went by the advice to keep it pleasant.
Probably I am producing moderate forces, MORE than that of pumping…but not enough to produce significant toughening…and as a result I started gaining again.
Lets say I made slow but steady progress for another 6 months, at which point I hit another plateau…or at least slow to the point I become impatient.
At this point, I saw that many hangers are getting good results…so I try hanging.
Because my pumping is already producing a hanging force about 10 lbs…I find that hanging wt under 10 lbs does no good.
I continue to up my hanging weight until I hit about 15 lbs at which point I begin to see gains again.
I believe that at this level, it is beginning to go into moderate or even heavy wt and you can get additional stretching, but I believe you can also begin to get tissue toughening.
So, I make another quick 1/4 inch gain…and then my progress comes to a screeching halt!
Why? Because you now pushed past that magic point on penile expansion with out toughening…to a more rapid mechanism of gain (stretching?)but pay with tissue toughening (protective reaction?).
Now no matter how high I go in wt, I get little to no gains.
Lets just say I go all the way up to 30 lbs and still no gains.
Maybe I pursue this for 6-12 months…can you imagine the tissue toughness I have developed?
I try other PE methods, but if they are less force than the 30 lbs…chances are that I see no changes.
Yet it is enough irritation to prevent deconditioning.
OK, so now out of desperation, I try clamping.
I personally believe that clamping produces some of the highest forces we use in PE…I think the high rate of injury backs up my assumption.
So, lets say, despite my beef jerky like condition of my dick, the high pressures of the clamping does produce some additional expansion.
At this point, do you think that there is any other PE routine I can do that will produce additional gains?
I think you can either continue with high pressure clamping with increasingly longer times, or you can go on a DECONDITIONING break, which is probably far healthier and safer than to continue up the escalating force/time road.
If we look at the different PE methods in terms of forces…then it begins to make sense why some changes in routine produces gains…and some not.
Lets take a second example;
We have a very enthusiastic newbie who saw a soda can sized dick on Thunders, that was produced by clamping…naturally, with his gal being hooked on diet Pepsi…he decided to go the clamping route.
So he starts off sensibly with one or two minutes of clamping for the first day…before he jumps in head first with 3 sets of 10 minutes.
Our newbie is a lucky man, and he doesn’t cause any major injuries (there’s a little discoloration, hes willing to live with that) with his routine.
He probably even gets some expansion…but because he moved to such high forces so rapidly, he stimulates a survival reaction in his unit, causing a rapid toughening, and soon his cock is very resistant to further growth.
What method could our friend possibly resort to that will result in growth for this penis that out of the need for survival, toughened very well and very fast…probably nothing!
Because he STARTED at the highest pressure levels…every other method will not have the force needed to produce further changes.
So, out of frustration he tries pumping…nothing. Jelquing…nothing…maybe even heavy hanging…if he’s lucky he gets nothing… instead of an injury.
And that’s if he is wise enough to not overdo any of these methods and cause ADDITIONAL tissue contraction/reaction!
I’m creating scenarios here out of my imagination, but they are pieces of stories from Thunders we have all read.
My point is… I think it would allow us to put together a PRODUCTIVE routine, if we look at the force levels we are using and use them in the proper sequence.
IF you wish to go the high force route, understand combining with low force PE methods will probably not be very effective (not including ADS and ADC…that’s another discussion).
And when you run into a plateau with high force PE… it is a waste of time to go back to low force…probably the only option is a deconditoning break.
If you wish to go low force…then be very observant to make sure you don’t cross that threshold and are getting toughening and contraction.
If you plateau with low force…you STILL have the option to go to a high force routine and make gains.
Just be aware that the price will be a lengthy deconditioning break once you plateau again.
I think that it may turn out that a low force plateau may also benefit from a decon break, but I suspect it would require a much shorter break to allow you to begin to make gains again.
So in summary, each methodology has force ranges.
Take the time to decide what type of approach you are choosing, then use the appropriate plan when you hit a plateau.
The more we understand what we are doing, the less time we will waste in improper use of methodologies and counter productive additional tissue toughening… and the sooner we can get back to growing that 9X7!!! :)
Happiness begins where selfishness ends!
Physiologic Indicators for Growth (PI's) Force Thresholds
Last edited by sparkyx : 04-16-2006 at .