Point at which you feel kegal

Hello Bigger,

LOT 9:00
Angle 11:00 - 12:00
Started 6.0x4.75 (never really measured starting girth)
Gained 1.25x0.5.
Been pe’ing for 24 months (I think).

I used to do PE on and off. Mostly some jelqing, stretching and some Uli’s.
Recently I started more seriously.

30 min. jelq (10 Uli’s after 200 strokes)
5 min. manual stretching

I do this in the morning and at night, 6 days on one day off.

Conan.

Hi Bib,

Been PE’ing on and off for about 6 months. EL gains so far 0.5 inch- achieved solely through jelqing. Stats are 7 x5.5. Erection angle about 11. LOT occurs at about 7.

I have done jelqing, squeezing and manual stretching at all angles. No gains occured while manual stretching.

I have both your starter and standard bib hanger, and was planning to start hanging in the next month or so.

A few questions: given my low LOT should I not bother with btc and start hanging immediately straight out or ots? - so as to hit the tunica.

Also with regard to internal cock.. Am I right in saying that a low LOT is consistent with relatively little cock to ‘pull out’? It is just that feeling back from where my dick leaves my body to my anus I can feel several inches of plump penis tissue. Is this not internal dick? and if it is why exactly does a low LOT mean I can not pull it out?

Are we sure that LOT is not simply related to strength of the PC muscle? The stronger the PC the lower the angle at which you are able to effect a tug? A strong PC muscle could also be implicated in gains being tough…

I thought about this too, because I’ve done some kegels long before I started PEing, and if I recall right my LOT was the same back when I started as it is now. Nevertheless I’ve made some gains (3/4” EL), which of most I achieved from doing JAI stretches. JAIs aren’t that strong in my opinion to make that all coming from tunica stretch/expansion.

I will post my stats soon. I have a question first, though.

Does anyone know the physiology of ligaments within the body? For instance, do the ligaments around the elbow strengthen as the biceps and forearms grow larger? If they do, then we likely have evidence that the penis ligs will grow stronger when the penis is bigger. If this is the case, then it would make sense to take time off from PE to allow the ligs to re-adjust to the bigger dick, possibly focusing only on tunica stretching during this time (although I’m thinking a complete break might even be more beneficial).

I might be talking out of my ass on this..let me know.

AgentD66,

>What can i hypothetically expect? <

A small amount of gain from lig stretch. More gain will have to come from tunica stretch. Work some at lower angles, but soon you will need to work at upper angles.

Conan,

Great potential. You should hit the lower angles consistantly.

dongers, Johan

>A few questions: given my low LOT should I not bother with btc and start hanging immediately straight out or ots? - so as to hit the tunica.<

You have some potential in the ligs, but you are correct. Generally hit the upper angles.

>Also with regard to internal cock.. Am I right in saying that a low LOT is consistent with relatively little cock to ‘pull out’? It is just that feeling back from where my dick leaves my body to my anus I can feel several inches of plump penis tissue. Is this not internal dick? and if it is why exactly does a low LOT mean I can not pull it out?<

Hmmm. I cannot get my mind to explain this in another way. A low LOT does not mean that you cannot stretch internal tunica. OK? It means that the ligs are not a factor in holding in internal penis. Think of it as rolling up a rope. With high tight ligs, there is internal penis which is curved up to exit at a higher point. Lengthening the ligs allows the exit point to lower, and internal penis to come out further.

Also, at an LOT of 7:00, you do have some internal potential. If you can feel a lot of internal penis, try the lower angles for a while and record the results.

>Are we sure that LOT is not simply related to strength of the PC muscle? The stronger the PC the lower the angle at which you are able to effect a tug? <

Your theory is along the correct lines. But the amount of length of the penis that can be ‘tugged back’ by the PC is not that great. I suppose there could be a small amount of error based on differing strengths of the PC. But I doubt it could account for more than 30 minutes of error on the LOT scale. In fact, I would say 30 minutes would be a whole lot of error. Maybe closer to 15 minutes.

In fact, what you are saying is the EXACT reason for the varying strengths of tugback at different angles. When guys say that they “get a strong tugback at 9:00, and little at 8:00, it is the last portion of the flex of the PC that gives that slight tugback, loosening the ligs grasp enough to feel a little something. LOT is never going to be exact, but you can see from the tables that is can be exact enough to draw conclusions.

Further, the correlations are not 100%, but they are very highly negatively correlated for the high ‘gains per month’ PEers. The correlation between gains and LOT is POSITIVE for the low ‘gains per month’ PEers which includes Johan. It appears your stats are dead on for the conclusions drawn.

>A strong PC muscle could also be implicated in gains being tough…<

I don’t think so. The only reason that a strong PC could effect gains is in flexing or not. If the PC is not flexed, it should make no difference, right? As with the DLD blasters, assuming a stretch below the LOT, when you flex the PC, the tunica is tugged back, and the ligs should receive less of the stress. If you reverse kegal, assuming a stretch below the LOT, the tunica should be expressed, and the ligs receive more stress.

The PC is muscle, and we are stretching collagenous tissues.

Bigger

dave134,

>Does anyone know the physiology of ligaments within the body? For instance, do the ligaments around the elbow strengthen as the biceps and forearms grow larger? If they do, then we likely have evidence that the penis ligs will grow stronger when the penis is bigger. If this is the case, then it would make sense to take time off from PE to allow the ligs to re-adjust to the bigger dick, possibly focusing only on tunica stretching during this time (although I’m thinking a complete break might even be more beneficial).

I might be talking out of my ass on this..let me know. <

No, you are exactly correct. The fact that collagenous tissues become stronger over time when placed under a consistant load, exercise, is well documented. It perfectly explains the ‘strengthening’ of the penis, as well as the weakening after PE is stopped.

But that is a different topic.

Bigger

Okey. The big gainers like DLD, RN and others have gained over 2” easily. But what about us who must streth the tunica… What kind of gains can we expect over time? Anyone who has changed their routine to tunica stretch and gained over an inch, tuly from that thecnique?…

By the way, very nice thread!

LOT: About 6:30. It is pretty strong until 7 pm.

Erection Angle: 9:30. When I started I was about 10:30.

Time in PE: 9 months.

Gains: Started 6.5 BP (5.75 NPB) x 4.75 G (mid-shaft). Now 7 BP (6.25 NBP) x 5 G.

Routine: For the first 6 months 30 mins-1 hr a day, 5 days a week of manual jelg, stretch and squeezes. My gains in that period were 1/4 L and 1/8 G. For the last 3 months, I’ve been hanging with the Bib hanger 5 days a week, 1 hr a day, exclusively BTC working up to 12.5 lbs and mixing in sets of DLD blasters. For the last month, I’ve been doing squeezes with tightly wrapped theraband acting as a primitive uli device. My gains in this period are 1/4 L and 1/8 G. I attribute my first 6 months as mostly experimentation. I now believe that the proper type and amount of hanging, plus these intense squeezes, are what are going to show more significant results.

Comments/Questions: I have a long suspensory lig (it reaches about 2/3rds of the way to the head) and it is quite pronounced too. That, plus Bib and other vets general advice to target the ligs first, led me to the BTC approach. Instinctively it made sense too — I generally have very tight muscles and ligaments in my body so why not down below as well. I definitely believe that my ligs have stretched with this approach. That seemingly explains the lower erection angle. I made gains though not big ones. But Bib’s findings now suggest that it would be more beneficial for me to focus on the tunica rather than the ligs. My question though, is that by doing the DLD blasters BTC, I know I strengthened my kegel muscle quite a bit. Could this account for the tugback, particularly since I was working the kegel in a below 6 o’clock position while hanging?

I would suspect DLD would be a prime example for what you ask. He had a number of months at a plateau, then came up with the A stretched blaster. When I analyse how I envision he performed this stretch as relayed in his posts, I believe he started highly concentrating on tunica stretch. He gained very very big from this point forward. I believe he was plateaud around 9.5”, and is now close to 12”? In about 6 months, dammit!

Based on the correlation that can be made of his experience and Bib’s theory, I am freaking stoked. I feel fully confident that my length goal can be attained by working smarter, not harder. Thanks Bib!

Moo,

Refer to my answer in the tunica thread please.

tally,

>. But Bib’s findings now suggest that it would be more beneficial for me to focus on the tunica rather than the ligs.<

Correct.

>My question though, is that by doing the DLD blasters BTC, I know I strengthened my kegel muscle quite a bit. Could this account for the tugback, particularly since I was working the kegel in a below 6 o’clock position while hanging?<

I do not believe there is any evidence that a stronger PC could effectively tugback the shaft enough to significantly change the LOT value. I do not think the angle of hang while doing the kegal would make any difference. I know of no way it could.

Bigger

First time in this thread, sorry guys.

Time: just over 2 years
Start: 6.5X5.5 erection angle 10.5
Now: 7.5X6.25 erection angle 10.5
Lot: 7

Routines: Everything, concentration in multi-part manual stretches and hanging.

Currently: For the last 1.5 months straight down manual stretches with a variety of 1 handed bends and twists. I do these whenever I have the privacy to stick my hand down my pants and average 1 hour minimum per day.

Opinion: slanted. Obviously, with my current routine, I have come to some similar conclusions. Over the last month I have started to feel my left nut pulling up into my body. I associate nut riseage with shaft growth, but do not plan on measuring for some months.

Thanks, Bib. Of course, every time you answer a question another one, two or three pop up.

I know you and other hanging vets generally recommend BTC as the best or most intense way to target the ligs. I also know that SO or OTS are cited as better tunica stretches. Is there a preferred option amon those two techniques when first focusing on the tunica? I know both hit in a little different places. Is there value to splitting the difference, so to speak, between the two and hanging at a 45 degree angle over the back of a high-backed chair, or should one focus on one or the other?

Tally

>Is there value to splitting the difference, so to speak, between the two and hanging at a 45 degree angle over the back of a high-backed chair, or should one focus on one or the other?

When I first changed over to hanging out and up instead of down, I felt the most intense stretch from OTS. It really nailed the bottom of the shaft. I didn’t feel much work from SO unless I hung slightly to one side or the other. Swivel chairs are handy. :)

Oh, I should add that I didn’t feel any extra stretch from reverse kegeling when hanging SO. Is there a connection? Does this somehow relate to LOT angle? See this thread.

I think it’s important to hit as man angles as possible, otherwise the angles you don’t hit can become your limiting factor.

I’ve been fulcrum stretching straight out left and right over a plastic pipe, and even just dead pulling like towards 10:00 and 2:00 (assume the clock face is tatooed on my body with my penis in the center).

Today at lunch, my wife was gone so I was pe’ing away while watching tv. Out of the blue, I pulled straght up towards my chin, then a little left and right. Holy Chit! I did this for quite some time, and can still feel the effect in my tunica all the way up into my body…

From this point forward, I hit every angle every day. I have noticed in the past that if I concentrate on one angle for even just a few days, stretching ability stagnates, and as soon as I switch to another angle I get a great stretch. So I guess the visual would be keep all angles advancing on the front line of growth, with none lagging behind…