Reasons for SLOW gains and NO gains

It’s Sunday :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by firegoat

I'd probably try alternating a week of hanging with a week of clamping. Plenty of heat. 50 light jelqs just for tissue fluid exchange after each session, followed by firegoat rolls to to avoid discolouration after each clamping session. Hang 7 days a week unless you feel you need a day off. Clamp 3 on 1 off.

I avoid the ‘scientific’ explanations because I come here for fun, and doing this makes it seem too much like my work, especially on a weekend! But I said I’d explain it when I had time, so here goes Audacia:

The penis needs to resist both tensile (linear stretch) forces and compression (lateral stretch) forces.

There is a great deal of cross-over between the physiological effects of hanging and clamping, but for clarity as to the reason for the unusual routine I proposed, I will separate them rather drastically, and not entirely the way it works in real life, but it will make the theory and reasoning clearer.

So:

The hanging tackles the linear tensile requirement and the clamping the compressive (if that doesn’t sound logical at first reading think about it this way; when thrusting during intercourse the penis is compressed, forcing the CC’s and CS to expand outwards).

Hanging relies on a combination of relatively light force (less than is often generated by manual stretching) and time.

The relative proportion of elasticity and plastic deformation varies according to the relationship of those two variables; that is the amount and duration of applied force. The time component of hanging is the more important part, because a constant low load applied to soft tissues over a prolonged period demonstrates the phenomenon called creep. With hanging the aim IMO is to cause creep.

Creep is not what you call someone who’s checking out your wife’s tits. It is steady deformation that occurs over a period of time. Creep causes the fibres within the collagen matrix to slide over one another. When creep goes beyond the tissue’s elastic capability into its plastic range, permanent plastic deformation is the result. This can quickly accelerate into total creep failure, which we certainly do not want, so we have to learn to understand our ‘fatigue’ levels. But it’s also why hanging can (even should) be done every day as long as the tissues have not been taken too close to the ‘danger zone’ of failure, in which case they need recovery time.

Heat before hanging assists with the relaxation of the elastic components in the connective tissue, and creates greater ‘slide-ability’ between the connective tissue fibres.

Clamping targets tissues with a less elastic nature; you get to your full erect girth and most guys come to a dead stop. As I said; there is a lot of cross-over, and creep etc. still applies, especially if you use sub-maximal pressure levels and longer time frames, which is my preferred option. But for our purposes, I’m going to assume most guys try for that last click on the clamp and take big risks. Because although it’s not perhaps the best way to clamp, it’s what most guys seem to describe when they talk about clamping.

The high pressures create sub-failure (we hope!) tissue damage, which heals, creating an adaptive response. We certainly don’t want scar tissue to form, as it contracts causing shortening, has poor bloodflow etc. Because we are keeping to well sub-failure pressures, we do not create tissue ‘gaps’ (that includes higher grade cellular inflammation in this case) so we should not get type III collagen (scar tissue) forming. The fairly mild ‘damage’ to the collagenous matrices results in an extracellular matrix remodelling which relies on type I collagen. The body suppresses this response for a couple of days after the damage, but it increases over the next few days and tapers off as ‘recovery/healing’ completes. Or to simplify that a bit for the non-techies, new healthy type I collagen is not laid down immediately or for the first day or so after clamping, but is then laid down for the next few days until complete recovery at a cellular level is complete.

So you need rest days for the process to take effect. But why still do PE 3 on 1 off then, if no new type I collagen will be laid down over the contiguous days? Well, my theory is that 3 days on gives time for a ‘suitable’ amount of strain to have been placed on the tissues, whereas trying to do it all in one session would necessitate going at it too hard and causing a level of inflammation (at a cellular level) that would cause type III collagen (scar tissue) to be laid down excessively too. The one day off in the middle followed by a further 3 days teaches the body that it does get a break in which to begin the laying down of type I collagen to repair the areas placed under strain, but by only giving it one day rest, it learns, over time, that it has to get on with the process quickly.

After 7 days, the clamping stops and the body has a full 7 days to under go the full adaptive response and lay down all necessary type I collagen to be fully healed, while you get on with hanging, which stresses the tissues in a different way, and which can be done at appropriate fatigue levels for 7 days or so before cumulative creep becomes potentially excessive if you happen to have over-done it a bit or don’t know your penis inside-out.

Hope that explains the logic behind my slightly unusual routine.

Have to try this next time I’m on holydays. Thanks Figo.

So I’m confused.
At the beginning your advocating 1 week on hanging and one week on clamping but in the 4th paragraph you say “hang every day” Seems like if you are after growth in both length and girth that might be OK but in general the time duration for results would lengthen considerably and then the consequence of plateau in length development would be rather high even when remaining under the plastic deformation point.

Your theory about clamping is also something that could stand looking at because your not really stating what amount of expansion would be appropriate. Seems like the door is open for inadvertent over stress due to impatience or aggressiveness which would lead to a plateau in girth gains. Girth is one of those areas that we just really don’t have a good handle on because unlike length work where we can apply an ADS, girth work has no equivalent. To think that healing even when sub-deformation is maintained doesn’t lead to a plateau during relaxed states is questionable. Wish we had some way to maintain low level pressures on the corpus cavernosa between clamping sessions. Unfortunately we just can’t maintain a semi erect state and circulation at the same time.

I, for one, have never bought the completion of a healing cycle as a benefit unless we’re looking for cementing of gains. I and many others have found that days off regardless of girth or length work has worked to the detriment of gains. Others have not found that to be the case so I think we should leave the book open.

It’s corpus cavernosum (one) or corpora cavernosa (two or more). Corpus cavernosa is wrong.

Just to say.

Yeah, I was looking at that and knew it didn’t seem right. I let the spell checker think for me. Sorry for the distraction

When would type II collagen tissue be made then and what is it? Is it really full necessary to have that full week off. I’d assume you’d do 3 days of clamping have a day off then do another 3 days. Which is a week long then take the next week off and repeat. Would it be okay to not that that week off? Since I do my length work 5 on 5 off. If I just do 3 on 1 off I could easily do that. I’m really looking to change because I’m just not gaining girth doing it everyday and am now slightly worried about doing hardcore pro lounged clamping after hearing about the scar tissue.

Girtha I know and others have done tons and tons of girth work. It did seem the case there the more the better. Is scar tissue so bad, It’s harder to deform correct? In which case I may already have some of it thanks to things I’ve done in the past just like doing 2 hours of clamping in a row really long sets for weeks non stop which I gained through. Then I stopped clamping for a few weeks, the gains went down and they don’t seem to be coming back doing 3-4 sets at 10minute.

I’ll probably go onto some not so hard 15 minute sets. Doing 4 of those a day possibly 2 in the AM and 2 in the PM. If I did that 3 on 1 off. Does this sound like a routine I could gain from?

Not sure if I should buy a book to help in program.

Lmbjless

A quick update. I apologize for my post to UFGatorGuy. I have been a member since 2009 on this site and have been a member at a couple other sites since 2008. I just now read this post, as I’ve been gone for a few days and haven’t been online. In post #53, which was a few hours before my reply, you mentioned your stats were (about 6" NBP and about 6.4" BP).

I read the criticism about my posts, and I agree that I did not come across in the most positive light. I felt a sense of camaraderie since I go to UF also and know about the Hippodrome, Tim Tebow, 8 seconds, Ruebar, the Hub, Turlington plaza, the gatorone ID card, etc..

I totally behaved as if I already had a sense of connection with you. Other than the fact we both go to UF, there is nothing more we have in common than any other two people on this site, unless ur Korean and spent summer abroad recently in China. I meant no malice and I apologize for acting as if we’re friends already or if we know each other from another site.

I sincerely apologize because I realized that if you tried as hard as I have tried at PE (and who says you didn’t, right?) then my post would have came across as very discouraging when I only tried to lift you up and give you moral support. I want to thank user:Persian because his post was neither defensive nor emotionally charged. I have re-read my post 3 times, and I was in the wrong. I should have been more respectful and more humble. I came across as very authoritative and even a little bit condescending.

I wish the best of luck to the OP and to everyone else in this thread. Most importantly, I want to re-emphasize what user:p ersian has already stated. I had the best of intentions in my previous 2 posts, and if you forgive me and reread all 3 posts to this thread (which now comprises 50% of my contributions to this site, since I have only made 6 posts) I hope you understand my point of view.

I made a mistake and you suffered for it. I’m sorry you got upset. With all due respect, I don’t seek attention nor am I an attention-monger. If your screenname wasn’t UFGator, I never would have had the courage to post unless I can offer something constructive and non-controversial, such as this post: hondarabbit - Is it possible to increase your height with special exercises

I empathize with your struggle about mental issues and emotional strains, which I may have exacerbated. I have adhd, asperger’s syndrome, and pervasive personality disorder NOS. In my defense, I have a perfect 4.0 GPA and I have lived one year at Hume. I was in CHM 2047 and almost matriculated into the junior honors medical program, but failed interview, fwiw. Everybody has their struggles, but it is up to you and only you to persevere.

Furthermore, I will post again in about 4-5 days about my entire routine. The most important part of my routine, was not the small details. The most important part of my routine was my attitude! There is the "official newbie routine" which is golden, tried, and proven. There are too many routines offered by so many reputed members than you can shake a stick at. The most important, all-encompassing, and common characteristic of a successful routine is not the details and the techniques—it is the persevering attitude which every person on this site who has gained 1+ inches has in common:

It is that inner strive that you will REFUSE to be one of the people who fail. I gave you moral support in the PM and in the posts to this thread. If you are looking for a "magic technique" which eludes you, then you will not find it. You are missing the proper attitude and the proper mentality. Once you refuse to fail, then the only other option is success, agreed?

I hope a few other people back me up on this, because I have gained 1.25" in length from PE and the proof resides not in before/after photos, but the members who read my posts and say "damn! Hondarabbit has the same attitude I had when I gained 1+ inches in PE." This is a free website with free knowledge and you have failed, after 17 months, to do what everyone else has done.

We were all noobs at one time or another. There is no shortage of information. If you were missing a "secret technique" then there would be someone in this thread who would already have pointed it out to you. Maybe it is because I care and I take it personally, that I am going to once again try and convince you that it is your attitude, rather than your lack of knowledge, that is your hindrance to your success.

I truly hope someone or a few regulars can back me up on this, since I’m going out on a limb here. Additionally, the OP has responded hostile once before to my well-intentioned advice. Who’s to say that I am not making the same exact mistake again? I do not want to get banned. If my post, yet again, comes across as "good intentioned yet seemingly belittling" then I will give up after this post. I am truly sorry, and if this post makes the same mistake as the last post, then forgive me one more time. As it is my last post to the thread.

Good luck everyone who reads this!

That’s very gracious but still you’re saying he has an attitude problem with how he approaches PE which he might not take to well. At this stage after 17 months without gains I don’t blame him for being that way. I definitely see you have good intentions though, so I’d like to see your routine/log myself.

I knew the main reason for slow gains but did not use info to the best advantage.

Lmbjless

I think Firegoat is spot on about the heat.

“Tissues heated to 45 C and then stretched exhibit a non-elastic residual elongation of about 0.5 – 0.9% that persists after the stretch is removed which does not occur in these same tissues when stretched at normal tissue temperatures. Thus 20 stretching sessions can produce a 10 – 18% increase in length in tissues heated and stretched.”

This might be a bit controversial, but personally I think low pressure exerted for long periods of time is superior to the kind of short blasts of high pressure you get from jelqing. So I would move from manual jelqing to some other type of PE.

I started out with pumping and got considerable permanent length gains in a relatively short space of time, but nothing in girth, which is what I was looking for.

I’m trying to gain girth at the moment and plan to spend a few months clamping using viagra and a heat lamp.

If this doesn’t work I’m thinking of using topical MSM and topical Verapamil to soften the collagen fibres, which have become quite tough over the course of my PE career and slowed down my gains. I don’t want to hijack someone else’s thread, but does anyone think these meds are a particularly good/bad idea?

DMSO and Iodine is the way to go.

I think the non gainers are mainly non workers. OR they are too careful. They PE 10 minutes a day after 30-45 minutes of hot wraps and warming up and for 3 days per week with way too much off time. Why is it legs can be stretched several inches yet many men find it SO hard to stretch their penis which is MUCH less tissue dense?