Thoughts on PE from johndough

Johndoe, would it be possible for you to setup a clinical study within the university you attend? Not sure how doing so would work, but other universities get grants for studies of other topics. Not sure where you are located, but if in Illinois, I would be a participant in your study.

Also, I thought a few members on here have made decent girth gains. Like BigGirtha, PErsian, and Clubber.

That would be impossible, for now. You’d need a group of legit doctors to put together a study, and it’s hard to find legit doctors that care about this stuff.

The side of this discussion (everybody vs John) put forth by the “PE needs no scientific evidence” group reminds me a lot of what the anti-vaccine people said for years about vaccines and autism.

The story goes that a British doctor named Andrew Wakefield wrote about a few children in whom Autism was observed after getting the MMR vaccine. This caused a huge stir among the general population. Celebrities got involved. Parents went wild. The news media ate it up. But in the scientific community, they quietly and methodically set out to confirm Wakefield’s findings in controlled setting. Long story short, doctors and scientists tried for years, conducting about a dozen massive clinical trials, but could not find a link between vaccines and autism. More recently, a look back at Wakefield’s records and the data in his study suggests fabrication and all sorts of ethical violations. His published study was retracted from the medical record because he lied.

Now here’s the statement the CDC released to the Oprah Winfrey show when she was interviewing Jenny McCarthy, possibly the most outspoken anti-vaccine voice:

“The vast majority of science to date does not support an association between [vaccines] and autism…. It is important to remember, vaccines protect and save lives.”

To that McCarthy responded “I have my science. His name is Evan and he’s at home right now” (McCarthy’s son, Evan, has autism and she blames vaccines) The crowd went wild. They cheered for her, they praised her for “fighting back against the arrogant scientists.”

Now a generation of parents are afraid to give their children vaccines because of the nutty Andrew Wakefield and the lovely Jenny McCarthy. Children in the US and Europe are getting fucking measles, a debilitating disease that had been practically eliminated from the developed world.

My point is, the “big PE gainers” may be like the kids that develop autism after getting a vaccine. When you consider the 150,000 or whatever ThundersPlace members, real gainers with evidence to prove it are the exception, not the rule. But they are the Jenny McCarthy’s. They speak up the loudest and make their individual success (or perported success) the facts. And that’s just not the way science works. We’ll never be as loud as you or as convincing to the public at large, but we’ll be eternally fair and loyal to logic. That just doesn’t sell books or get us on the news.

Science method can’t prove anything to be true, it can only falsify theories (simplification, but the essence of it). IMHO this entire thread is a classic example of many people deeply misunderstanding that basic characteristic of science.

Hypothesis - Wikipedia
Falsifiability - Wikipedia

When I hear ‘this study proves.. Blah blah.’ I usually burst out laughing. I do however really appreciate the original poster’s skepticism - that is the basis of all new discovery. However, saying a lack of studies ‘proving’ existence of something conversely ‘proves’ it’s non-existence is really not a valid thing to say for a scientist IMO.

Don’t they make science students read Karl Popper anymore? ;)

I’m not keeping official records for scientific study on myself. But I do know two things via measurement and observation of myself.

(1) At just barely over 5” girth currently, I’ve gained 3/4” girth in 6.5 months.
(2) The vast majority of this gain is in the height (not width) of circumference, and that is specifically my CS (underside).

My routine is composed of overhand jelqs and vacuum pumping, with a very limited dose of squeezes.

So there’s a question I’d like answered. If my girth gains are attributable to “swelling” as proposed by JD, why is the swelling all being focused on the CS area (ie. all below the CC twins)?

As an aside, I’d really prefer to be adding width instead of height at this point. Any suggestions?

Maybe try switching your jelqing grip to apply more pressure on the top and bottom of your unit. This might help force the expansion outwards (to the sides). Also, have you tried dry jelqing?

I’m too afraid of messing up the dorsal nerve and artery. And I’m cut tight, so I just don’t get dry jelqing.

A few things to consider:

1. Have you been accurately measuring the width versus the height of your penis? 3/4” is a lot of added girth and if it’s all being added to the height only, you’d notice a big change from when you started.

2. Maybe the way you jelq only applies trauma in specific locations.

3. Gaining 3/4” of girth in the short amount of time you did cannot be totally due to growth. Trust me, you have swelling (especially because you routinely pump - edema, fluids, etc). A good test: just stop jelqing and pumping for a week or two and I’d bet my life you lose at least 1/4”, maybe more. If you don’t, well, then I call you the girth anomaly :) . Other explanations: your EQ is higher now or your beginning measurements were error prone. I’m inclined to believe it is a little bit of both, but with emphasis on the former.

Hi guys.

Let me try and contribute to this topic. It has interested me for a while. First, the quotes:

Cracked me up.

Very true my friend. Unfortunately (as I too would like a bigger dick). Only one thing is missing: the incredible and very underestimated incidence of injuries in PE (soft glans, etc.).

Now, the pumping studies and opinions.

The first study did show an increase. The increase may be small but, as Computerguy once noted,
a. they had little to begin with - the percentual increase is not as negligable
b. the program was really tentative and not intense.

There was also one informative study on pumping for guys with Peyronie’s disease posted in the sexual health section of the forum. The sample was extremely small but it was conducted by dr. Tom Lue. Now for those of you that don’t know, he is considered probably the world’s best urologist. The two to follow him are Irwin Goldstein and Laurence Levine (the one who endorsed FastSize!). When uros don’t know what to do, they send you to these gentlemen. They are the rockstars of urology. They are not just practicioners, they are also in the frontline of research. Just do a seach on penile stuff and you will see.

Now while this study showed very good increase in length, I saw dr. Lue on another occasion say that pumping can only give a temporary swelling - and that’s IF used regularly over a long period of time. Now please don’t underestimate his knowledge and interest in this matter. He deals with Peyronie’s disease sufferers and PD frequently causes shrinkage. A common treatment for PD (and numerous other instanes of ED) is pumping. Regular. Over a long period of time. I think he’d know if permanent increases are possible. They obviously aren’t.

Here’s the actual quote:

Scary if you ask me.

And finally, please take a look at this link: . This is the International Society for Sexual Medicine. They do discussions regularly any I have seen both dr. Levine and dr. Goldstein participate in them, as well as some other great urologists and andrologists from around the world. So creme de la creme of the profession is here. They are discussing - you guessed it - penile augmentation. Read it and you will get a very accurate picture of the state of the affairs.

I will just quote the aforementione dr. Levine:

I would certainly prefer to enlarge my penis. But I would not like to spend a good deal on my life on something that will not give results or will result in a decreased erectile function.

So guys, either give us the facts (scientific proof or logical reasoning) or STFU. Even pictures are not proof because, as far as I know, it could just be temporary pumping swelling. Comments like “doctors know shit” don’t count (even if they don’t) because you gentlemen, know even less.

Easy there Owen, you don’t want my foot up your ass.

So basically you’re saying the 1” of length that I’ve gained in past 13 months is false even though my ruler, my girlfriend and I see it, but it hasn’t been documented by camera? Right, very valid argument.

Even if you had the photos he’d say you shopped them. Guys like this aren’t going to believe you because they dont trust anyone. We shouldnt be wasting our time trying to persuade them. I’ve almost gained an inch, I’ve got no photos to prove it. I dont have to prove it.

The title of this thread is “thoughts on PE …”, thoughts arent real, if they were the thought police would have locked all of us up years ago.

I’ve mentioned before that I think a large portion of my gains is actually restoration to my former self. I ended up here at TP due to a messed up inguinal hernia operation. Fifteen months after the surgery, my dick was very noticably smaller, very darkly discolored underneath, and my EQ was terrible. I also stated that my first measurements were done with bad EQ, bad enough that I doubted the validity of the measurement. The only validity is this: bad EQ was in the full package I started with.

I measure with a string carefully pre-marked off in 1/8” increments. I personally think that’s the best way to measure girth.

I’ve refrained for 10 day periods as recently as last week. No significant difference was seen or felt, but I didn’t actually measure. I grant you that 1/4” girth reduction could pass this inspection undetected. I also grant you that some quantity of swelling is always present during an active PE training period, and some residual swelling may be present for longer than 10 days.

I did not intoduce vac pumping until the 4.875” mark was achieved, so things have actually slowed down since then. I pump between 3 - 4 inHg.

FWIW, I’m not expecting to gain nearly as quickly from my current level.

I think JD’s contentions are mainly concentrated on girth gains, not length.

Like I’ve said, even my doctor all but told me that it’s quite possible to stretch your penis to a new length. The only thing he questioned was the possibility of losing sensitivity.

Of course thoughts are real. Everything begins with thought - an idea.

I think both of you need to calm down and quit bashing johndough. He’s not accusing people of anything. He’s simply pointing out that there is a massive discrepency among the number of people claiming big gains who also document these gains with photos. Nobody has ever told you that you had to post a picture of your dick. But, in all fairness, there really is no substantial reason to believe you without a photo. I’m skeptical of a lot of people, because you do see trends - whether it be measuring errors or simply the attempt of a bored person trying to get attention. It happens, although I’ve noticed not as much here as it does on other PE forums.