Xeno's method - results after my first campaign

Oh yes, I love bandwagons. I love them so much, I’m upgrading this one to a bandtrain. Whoo Whoo.

Modesto…yeah I got BP gains too…I’m in SA so every was measured metric…lemme think…I went from 17.5cm to 18.5cm…that’s a 1cm gain…which is 0.4 inches, if I’m not mistaken.

The fact that you have to think about it makes me worry. You’ve probably heard me rant about how difficult it is to measure a penis accurately. There have been numerous threads about how to measure. I was a bit surprised that your first report was of a NBPEL gain.

Especially if you’re trying to learn whether a specific protocol works, it is imperative that you be absolutely fastidious and consistent about your measurements. Sorry, but your reply did not reassure me that we are dealing with reality instead of placebo.

Hmm, now you guys see what happens when I drink too much. I think I made some good points though nonetheless. ;)

Modesto, you read me wrong. I said “lemme think” because I was mentally converting centimeters to inches while I was typing the post, not because I couldn’t remember my measurements. I’ve been tracking my measurements with an eagle eye, bro.

As for the NBPEL, I reported it first because it’s more relevant for me (I have little fat pad and it doesn’t change. 0.25 inches, always). So NBP for me because it tends to be just as stable as BP for me.

Anyway, just to clear up the confusion: this was NOT a placebo effect!

Measurements before:
Flaccid length = 5” Flaccid girth = 4.5” EL = 6.25” BPEL = 6.5” EG = 5.375”
Fully stretched length = 6.9”

Measurements after:
Flaccid = 5.5” x 5” EL = 6.5” BPEL = 6.75” EG = 5.375”
Fully stretched length = 7.28”

Happy now?

P.S. I just read your last post and realized you asked for BPEL gain, but I gave you FSL gain by mistake. My bad. BPEL gain was 0.25”, just like NBPEL gain (like I said, my fat pad hasn’t changed a micron in the past year.)

BTW, one other thing I forgot to mention - the jelqs I was doing were 4-second jelqs, pretty long and slow. I think it had a significant effect - you can definitely feel the extra stress being applied to your unit when you stroke slower and longer.

PWI LoveMachine?

You usually make good points. Even when I don’t agree with a post of yours wholesale there is always something in it that I can relate to. And your contributions are consistent. You’ve been doing this for a while, so you definitely have insight.

If you hadn’t said anything I wouldn’t have known that you were…well, drinking.

ModestoMan why would you doubt doghound so? You are not usually so uncharitable.

doghound, you and I are in the same boat fat pad-wise. .25” is about all I’ve had for as long as I’ve been measuring. So for me BPEL and NBPEL are about the same degrees of consistency.

The slower jelq method you describe does indeed up the pressure, but I find that I lose the semi-erection faster, so I can’t do as many. Do you have this problem too? If so how do you get around it? Stop and go? What?

Keep up the good work.

I’ve been keeping an eye on people’s progress using IPR training. I tried a first round if IPR a couple of months ago and gained nothing. I actually lost size due to the fact that the time off prevented me from cementing my earlier gains.

I also measured extremely accurately, every day. I carefully recorded both my measurements and any circumstances surrounding them. At one point, I discovered that my 2-ended ruler gave different measurements depending on which end I used. There went 1/8” of my gains.

I’ve also demonstrated that I can easily measure 1/4” difference in FSL based on time of day, warmth, and other factors.

IPR is officially controversial. Before I extend a lot of “atta boys” to my fellow members over their alleged gains, I want to understand the circumstances surrounding those gains. This is part public service and part personal rant. I hate to see guys sucked into some new training regime because a few early adopters optimistically tweaked up their measurements out of an expectation that they should gain. As far as I’m concerned, a NBPEL gain of less than 1/2” is not to be taken seriously without a concurrent, BPEL gain record to back it up.

As for being uncharitable, please forgive me for being a sourpuss. Congrats doghound on your apparent progress. I hope that your gains are real and that they continue.

Thanks for the nice comment Mr Happy. :) About my post, I just felt maybe I said too much given the context of the thread and didn’t mean to outspeak so much and bother others who I like around here because I was buzzing. I think I’m too sensitive sometimes. Sorry to divert the topic of the thread.

I have always believed in the IP in IPR … it’s the R that I’m not so sure about.
That said, I DO think rest is important but it’s the amount of time that IPR suggests you rest that I’m uncomfortable with.
Cellular proliferation produces a lot of actin. Actin is one of the most abundant proteins in any species of plant or animal as it aids in shaping the cytoskeleton of every individual cell. It’s contracting action is responsible for pinching a new cell into a seperate one after a cell undergoes mitosis (actin filaments also facilitate muscle contractions, hydrolyzation of ATP and ADP, etc.). An actin protein known as UNC-112 links cells to the extracellular matrix, and it continues to have a contracting action for quite some time after its initial production. Consequently it is plausible that such an extended period of inactivity, even after the new cells required for tissue remodeling were formed, would ultimately result in the loss of gains.

Either way, I am anxious to see some more results with the IPR method.

Fair enough ModestoMan, I’m all for healthy skepticism. The IPR thing definitely needs review. I just think it’s a good approach because it has a high safety component and yet seems to have been working well. Perhaps I’m over-excited.

soon2b9 you sound as though you know a bit about biology. How would you modify the R part of IPR? What is your thinking? I must confess I only sort of understand your post, so I anyway, need further clarification and perhaps some concept of the differences you would like to see in this protocol.

My approach would probably be continued ADS use(during the period that is currently used for rest). but at a lower tension. I think that ideally you would want just enough force to defeat the contracting action, but not enough to increase collagen modulus, enzymatic cross-linking, etc. … not that I could tell you exactly what that force would be (hell, too many variables involved solely in estimating the number of new cells formed during proliferation).

I do, however, think that one could approximate the correct tension to do this fairly easily. It wouldn’t have to be exact, you just wouldn’t want to use the same force you would use when you were attempting to make gains. It would be best to use more force than less though as long as you are within a certain margin … given that when you started your routine again you would need to ramp up the intensity. You can be off as much as 12 percent or so and only suffer a 5 -7 percent increase in tissue strength. Personally if I were really going to attempt this I would also cut my Vitamin C intake to 6 mg/day (although that’s not as easy as it sounds) in the hopes of preventing any increase in tissue strength.

So vitamin C promotes tissue strength?

I take a lot of vitamin C. Hmm…

So instead of two months off what? Cut down ADS tension another notch and take, what 2 weeks off? Ballpark?

I can’t remember the threads title, but I remember reading a while ago one of BIB’s old threads where he commented on what he thought about vitamin C and he thought the same thing that it promotes tissue strength and thus slow down gains. There also were other intelligent arguments in the threads against that theory for slowing down gains but I can’t remember who they or he was making the argument(s). No one wants scurvy from absolute zero vitamin C but I think when BIB gives his opinion on something it is something to give a serious consideration too. I think if you search for “vitamin C” for thread titles in the advanced search feature here you might be able to find that thread I’m referring too.

Without getting too deep into Organic Chemistry (for the sake of everyone that may read this):

Vitamin C promotes collagen production. Procollagen (which is produced inside a cell via ribosomes and assembled into collagen after it is expelled through the cell membrane) is made up of hydroxylysine and hydroxyproline. Vitamin C is what hydroxilates the Lysine and Proline, so no vitamin C = no procollagen = no collagen.

I would use the low-tension ADS for 8 to 12 weeks (that’s about the duration of the contracting action of actin), then take 4 weeks off. If I was keeping my C intake low though, I might only take a week. I’ve actually brought this up years ago, but never went as far as to experiment.

Preventing scurvy is actually why I said I wouldn’t go any lower than 6mg/day. It takes about 3 or 4 to prevent scurvy. Scurvy actually does some pretty interesting things to collagen. Actually, it is the study of those things that gave us the term “guinea pigs” … guinea pigs are some of the only animals besides humans (and primates) to which Vitamin C is an essential vitamin (that is, not produced by the body naturally and thus must be obtained elsewhere).