Heavy Weight Hanging + Heat Applied During Hanging = Faster Gains?

I haven’t been around here for awhile but it’s nice to be back. :) I’ve still been PE’ing a bunch just had to take a zen approach for a while to see what I could figure out on my own…

Anyways, I was thinking a lot today about what my latest plan of attack will be for the day with PE and eventually thought of and imagined the possible benfits one could get from using heat while hanging heavy weights (despite the hanger type for the most part as long as the internals are being stretched). So I did a little expierment today and I at first took a heated rice sock and applied that to my shaft moving the rice sock around the sides and ventral and dorsal sides of my shaft hoping to weaken and loosen up the tough tissues like the tunica as I hanged so I could get a max stretch.

The results of my expierment are what one would think. It did cause the tissues to loosen a little and I could of sworn I even felt a little more pull from the hanging set as if the tissues were giving way and allowing the bungee cord (dynamic hanging tension) to adapt to the weight being applied at a mere 5 pounds to hang with over the edge of my bed while sitting up straight on the bed.

Now my thoughts are could this have any real benifit for people who have strengthed there penile tissues up from lots of hanging and it would seem logical that this would lead to quicker gains. Also another relevent fact I’ve read is that if permanent deformation has anything to do with PE and hanging that maybe this would help to achieve gains quickwer because for any type of material (living or non-living matter) permanent deformation is acheived much quicker (and sometimes only I believe I’ve read) if enough heat is applied to that special material, which in our case would be what we here at TP seem to think is the biggest limiting factor for length which is the tunica (logituninal layer I think).

I don’t mean to blab on to much but also think of how in PE it seems for length gains with hanging we are not trying to force the tissues to grow we need to encourage them (traction type stretching, low weights, for long periods of time, ala plastic deformation theory) so might this idea of using heat correctly as you do PE hanging sets help to bypass this saftey mecanism the body apparently I’m guessing tries to do when you hang really heavy weights? When I hang low weights compared to heavy weights if feels like the low weight is encouraging growth of a long period of time and it feels like the higher weight is FORCING the stretch of all my penile tissues more which means the body’s retration safety mechanism might kick in and hinder quicker growth for hanging. Could it be that using heat with heavy weights (which many people here I see don’t always do) might be a way to avoid the dreaded “turtle” effect that we never seem to want here?

People chime in please, the more posts and thoughts we get here the better for all of us. :)

>When I hang low weights compared to heavy weights if feels like the low weight is encouraging growth of a long period of time and it feels like the higher weight is FORCING the stretch of all my penile tissues more which means the body’s retraction safety mechanism might kick in and hinder quicker growth for hanging. Could it be that using heat with heavy weights (which many people here I see don’t always do) might be a way to avoid the dreaded “turtle” effect that we never seem to want here?<

Do you stop pushing when you see the “retraction safety mechanism” set in? I find the most interesting topic in hanging is the retraction and varying degrees of soreness accumulated. Sometimes, I ponder if it is possible that many are backing off just when good things are about to happen.

Not many enjoy the retracted state, but what if this is a sign of limiting factors failing and the golden opportunity to press on. I’m just speculating, but the last time I hung for gains in ‘04 retraction was pretty common to some degree and I gained well.

I recall Bigger making a statement like it is easier to slice hot butter than cold, makes sense to me.

I find that heat makes hanging more comfortable—especially with heavy weights. Many times I’ve had a completely trouble-free set only to remove my rice sock half-way through and almost immediately feel pain.

There are lots of threads about the use of heat. It definitely helps the tissues to relax and fully stretch out. There is a difference, however, between stretching and growth. Just because something stretches when it’s hot and under tension doesn’t mean it will be any longer when it is cold and loose.

But I think heat also increases metabolic activity, which may tend to promote growth.

I don’t exactly understand what you mean by do I stop pushing when I see the “retraction safety mechanism” set in, but if you mean I stop hanging as soon as I see that happen after a couple sets, yes sometimes I do, I’ll pay a little more attention to that

You make some good points about how the retraction state after hanging might actually be something we want even though it looks bad because you, I, and many others have proven people can gain if we give enough rest to the unit after hanging and retraction occurs. This might be when growth occurs if the limiting factors were broken.

That statement BIB said makes sence to me as well. ;)

Now that I think about it, other then the hassle of having to perodicallt move the rice sock around my shaft heat does help for making my hanging sets more comfortable when I’m hanging heavy weights. Interesting.

You bring up some good thoughts. That seems to be the issue we need to focus on and figure out in PE which is what PE excersizes are stretching the tissues and making them permently longer (i.e. plastic deformation) and the other issue is one that deals with biological matters strictly, in other words living tissue, living cells, which react and grow to the force/stress/tension/traction(whatever you want to call it) with certain methods of length excersizes in PE like hanging, traction stretching, ADS, ADH, manual stretching etc… So the question is what length PE excersizes will give us real celluar growth gains (mitosis) and what excersizes will permently deform (plastic deofrmation) and stretch the tissues of the penis for length gains? Lot to think about… ;)

Yes I think I’ve read many times that heat does increase metabolic activity. It doesn’t matter if the matter (no pun intended) is living (living tissue/cells) or non-living (metal, plastic, wood, etc) is made up of molecules which are of cource made up of atoms. When heat is applied to living or non-living matter the atoms start to heat up and they move around a lot quicker making a solid object more visocus and liquididy so this would support the theory for plastic deformation and over stretching the tissues of the penis I think…

I don’t believe that the penis grows through plastic deformation. It is doubtful that the principles of plastic deformation even apply to the penis, as that concept was developed to describe the behavior of solids (like iron).

The penis consists of layers of interlocking fibers. Different principles apply. Also, we have heard many times that collagen fibers have a higher tensile strength than steel. The force required to permanently deform the penis as a whole is probably much greater than anything that could be supplied during PE. It’s all about growth, which is brought about in part by stretching.

Growth occurs by making new meat. That means having the cells upregulate the production of collagen, and having the new collegen integrate itself into the existing tissue matrix in a way that yields extension in the desired direction.

Some good food for thought MM. :)

As usual, I enjoy your post MM.

I think that the “sweet spot” is somewhere in between the contraction reaction.

Some where between the phrase…”Never let it turtle” and “Never MAKE it turtle”.

The theory I’m working with right now is that perhaps, SLIGHT contraction is an indicator of the right amount of damage that occurs when actually pushing collagen fibers just slightly beyond its normal length.

This, for practical purposes should be measured in time of contraction.

I don’t have a range yet, but I’m thinking a few minutes to a few hours.

THEN, I believe that the other mechanism…the one that actually STIMULATES GROWTH…is a lower force, but it has a minimum daily requirement of something like 30 minutes.

Some people can hit the overlap of these ranges, and get great results with little to no shrinkage.

Guys like me, it may well be that those two ranges are not compatible, so it has to approached in two phases.

I have been experimenting with hanging for 2 sets of 5 minutes @ 7.5 lbs, followed by 2 pe wts for 30 minutes then 1 pe wt for several hours.

I have adjusted those 3 wt ranges, and really see a real difference in how I manipulate the force/time.

I believe and am shooting for a force/time range that will allow me to cycle through STRESS-RECOVERY-GROWTH in a 24 hour period…as I believe that is almost necessary for maximize growth (as opposed to stretch).

Anyway, I haven’t gone public yet with my findings, because I want to make sure its not a measurement error, but UNOFFICIALLY I have added OVER 1/2 inch in both bp erect and flaccid length in less than a month (just recorded 5/8 in.), while bringing penile health back into the good to great zone.

But, I’m not gonna totally claim that until I know for sure.

If I’m correct, it would account for why so many guys have a hard time getting sustained gains.

If they go low enough to not cause the damage, it may be to low to gain.

If they go high enough to get the damage, it would be too high to sustain for the required 30 minutes, without pushing deep into the contraction reaction and toughening.

If I’m correct, then two or three levels of force/time may be the answer.

I use 7.5 lbs to slightly “stretch” the tissues, 20 oz to sustain it within the 30 minute zone for growth, then maintain as much as possible while causing no further irratation with 10 oz for several hours.

When I pushed the 20 oz into 2 hours…I lost nite wood for 2 days, and I took those 2 days off completely!

Even when I use 20 oz for 1 hour, a get a slow, gradual decrease in nite wood.

When I dropped the 20 oz to 30 minutes, I have improved nite wood, better flaccid and better gains.

I realized that 20 oz pushes me into the STRESS phase because if I wear 20 oz for 3 hours…I get contraction!

That is, the 2 pe wts and nothing else will cause turtling all by themselves.

I might even eventually recommend, “never make it turtle”, but it will take some additional experiments with myself and others before I can say that.

I might turn out that “never make it turtle much” will be the guideline, added to “then use mild force to prevent that mild turtling, for several hours until the contraction phase has passed”….it just not a very “catchy” phrase.

:)

Sparkyx,

So 10 oz is really enough for you to not only counteract mild turtling, but also take it into above ordinary FL. What’s your FG?

What kind of force and time were you doing before the 5/8” month? Maybe a part of it is cashing in on hard work, from letting the tissues relax. I saw a last 1/8” gain one full month after retiring last time, and it stuck; but I was in the gaining zone all along, not overdoing it and actually having a better EQ when actively hanging (no healthy jelqs or anything like that). Was your EQ suffering notably before you saw these last rather remarkable gains?

No doubt, if you’re actually hitting this gain rate with only that very minimalistic routine, a naming squad will sort out the catchy phrase issue :)

I’ll be staying tuned for that official report. So far, congratulations on very nice gains!

rm

I am concentrating on length until I hit 9”, then I will use the same type of approach on girth. Right now, bpfl is about 8 5/8” and el is about 1/4 ” behind that.

Before my break of two months, I was using about 5lbs for 2 sets of 5 minutes, with my vacuum hanger, and I swing the wts…this was giving me increased base girth, but no length gains.

Now, 7.5 lbs is my stretching force, way too much for me to use for 30 minutes and not cause a significant contraction reaction or at least really clog my lymph vessels ( I’m very prone to that).

The 20 oz is enough to cause minor stress, maintain the stretch the 7.5 lbs causes, and allow me to hit that 30 minute mark…yet if I go too long, puts me into over training.

[I’m still not sure if maybe we should avoid turtling completely]

The 10 oz would do very little on its own, its really not enough to stretch, irritate or stimulate growth by itself, but when used as a 3rd stage force step-down, seems to not interfere with healing, while keeping me in a near maximum extended state. So, main thing on this stage is not to cause contraction.

The only other thing I add is 1 minute of clamping to improve the vascular system of the penis without causing additional stress, and 1-2 minutes seems to have that effect.

Before I made these recent gains, I had a 2 month layoff due to multiple problems.

I have been getting some sort of pressure induced eczema, and my lymph vessels clog at the slightest provocation.

Since I started 2 years ago, I have run into tons of dead ends and minor problems, as well as ED. I’ve had occasional success, but nothing sustained.

I finally figured out that you must closely observe the Physiologic Indicators of your penis in response to the force used.

From these observations, I discovered that even the newbie routines are far too much force/time for me.

I suspect that many of the “hard gainers” are actually guys like me…very sensitive tissues to force/time.
, who have from the begining used far too much force/time. The common response to lack of gains is to INCREASE IT!

This lead to writing a thread about it.

After numerous dead ends and minor problems, I have finally figured out that there may be three major requirements for growth for someone like me, namely enough force for some stretching, avoiding significant contraction and a minimum time requirement of about 30 minutes/day with a force that doesn’t do so much damage that you can’t repeat the next day.

If you need to go more than 24 hours to recover, it starts to violate the 30 minute/day requirement to stimulate optimum growth. [I’m not even sure how much is needed, but for now my educated guess is a minimum of 20-30 minutes…it may be more.]

So no, I haven’t used enough forces that a decon break was needed.

Besides if you are over-trained, you get gains while doing “nothing”, I had lost about 1/4 inch during my layoff and was at about 7 3/4 ” when I restarted my program…or started to experiment with this approach.

If you decon and grow…you were overtrained. If you decon and shrink…you weren’t.

I had never gotten over 8” bpfl EVER, and now I pulling 8 5/8”…and that’s in less than one month, and that’s while manipulating the parameters…I believe if I was doing what I am currently doing for the entire month….my gains would be more.

I am still slightly adjusting them.

I believe, for the first time, I have found my “sweet spot”.

If I’m correct, I should see sustained gains for a while.

If I’m correct in my concept, others should also be able to make gains that haven’t been able to in the past.

I intend on writing a thread on this, but first I want to work on it some more with myself and a few others that I am working with.

I probably have room to mentor a few more guys who want to work with this concept. [pm me if you want to try it].

I would like to do it on the forum, so we can let everyone else see the approach, fine tune and test it publicly…and fall on my ass publically if it is all wrong! :)

>If you decon and grow…you were overtrained. If you decon and shrink…you weren’t.<

I gained that last 1/8” of mine after 4 weeks off from having steadily gained and regularly seeing my best ever flaccids when actively hanging. Which indicates I wasn’t anywhere near seriously overtrained; possibly even closer to undertrained, yet still in the gain “zone”.

What’s your reasoning on correlation of decon and growth with overtraining? How much decon growth do you think is at all possible?

When you guys speak of contraction, are you meaning a flaccid hang that looks like you have drank 3 gallons of coffee or a suffering BPSFL measurement? Or is it both?

Have any of you recorded a smaller BPSFL reading because of pushing too hard?

I’m not sure what that 3 gal reference means…but the contraction I’m refering to is usually shrinkage of about 1/2 your normal flaccid hang…sometimes even more.

I think serious decrease in flaccid girth also qualifies.

Have I ever recorded a smaller bpfl…ALL THE FRIGGIN TIME!

Anytime I make a change, one of the criteria as to whether it was a good change or not is bpfl.

For example, yesterday I increased the 3rd step of force/time ( the 10 oz) from about 1-2 hours to about 7 hours…its just 10 friggin oz. right?

Well, today I’m measuring 8 1/4” barely! Thats down from 8 5/8”!

But this is how I adjust the force/time. Change one perimeter at a time and watch the changes in PIs.

Thats how you fine tune it.

So, actually, the shrinkage due to INCREASED force/time warrents a day off or at least a decreased force/time day.

Shrinkage after a DECREASE of force/time indicates that you went too low in force/time.

Thats why for guys like me that are so friggin sensitive to force/time…even if you jacked off that day, it could totally distort the PI feed back the next day…or two.

I added two hours of edging a couple weeks ago…and I had contraction for the whole rest of the day.

For some guys, jerking off doesn’t bother their progress at all (zero contraction) for others, it may be the difference between progress and no progress.

The way to tell for you is consistence observation and recording of force, time and PI responses.

If you don’t do that…you are just using the P&P method…pull and pray!!! (pull your dick and pray it grows :) )

It may have been your best ever…but that 1/8 inch indicates it could have been even BETTER!

You might be surprised at how little pe is needed for many of us to gain, and how easy it is to do too much.

Decon growth ( in my view) is the result of the tissues either fully relaxing or catching up with the stimulus (stress) that you have applied, but not given the chance to fully grow and recover from.

Its been my experience that if you are right in the “zone” growth stops quickly, and shrinkage begins within a day or so.

This isn’t loss of real gains, its more like returning to normal tone, or tissue tension that had been coaxed into a relaxed state.

Even slight overtraining leaves the tissues in a slightly “tight” state, that releases with some time.

That slight tightness or even significant tightness (I consider 1/8 ” slight) indicates (to me) that you could have done even less force/time and had better results.

This is all based on my observations and experience…so basically, my opinion.

This is a very interesting thread guys and some really cool theories brought to light. I personally feel that I fall into that category as a “hard” gainer, I am not really sure but may be over training myself. I mean it’s pretty tough to tell. I have been PEing for about 2.5 months and have seem no gains in either length or girth. I hang lower flaccid but that’s it, no gains in erect status. I really want to start hanging soon. I will decon for a month at the end of August and then start to hang. Possibly using sparkyx’s routine that he posted above. What do you guys think ?