The "Thicker The Rope" theory

Guys,

I always see people on here asking for routines and what weight did people see gains. It is hard for me not to feel empathy and sympathy for people because most if not all are making this decision to add what they genuinely feel they need to be happy. They end up copying others routines based on the end result or claim but never stop to consider the variables involved.

I am not a very scientific guy like Kyrpa or Shiver that have made some incredible contributions to this forum. So I will piggyback on their research and hopefully present something you will find useful.

After reading so many threads lately on heat I did find a bit of a golden nugget for me in these threads. FYI,I believe in heat . Not because I have used it but mostly because it seems logical. It also has scientific backing as well as empirical evidence. But that is not the focus of this thread.

The one thing that caught my eye is Kyrpa load calculator. He obviously intended to use it for calculating loads while heating the penis. I saw something else that got me thinking. He made a point about how girth played a huge role on the amount of weight an individual needs to use. A guy with a 5 inch flaccid girth will need to use more weight than say a guy with a 4.5 inch flaccid girth. The thicker the rope the more weight it can handle and the harder it is to break or deform.

This played into another question that has been in my mind for a very long time. At what weight does plastic deformation take place? If there ever was one question, that if answered, would rock the PE world this question would be it. Unfortunately the research out there contradicts itself and at best gives us a ballpark figure. The good news is there is sufficient empirical information to aid us in getting close to that answer. Maybe a few of the real smart guys on this board would take an interest in this and clear it up a bit.

I started to overlap this information and compared it to Bib. As we all know Bib claimed that he started at 6 x 5. And finally stopped at 10.5 x 6.5. Obviously he has never produced any pics to prove this but I will give him the benefit of the doubt and use this information to compare and in a certain way validate his outcome.
We know, according tho his story that he eventually got up to 45 LB. So I compared this and the information from this article below and it kind of fits in perfectly.

Deformation: Intensity, Method and Recovery guidelines

So if we take the following information; "The corresponding girth measurements are 9.31 cm (3.66 inches) for a flaccid penis and 11.66 cm (4.59 inches) for an erect one". from the bellow article.

How big is the average penis? | Science | AAAS

We can assume that flaccid girth is around 20% less than erect girth.

So in the case of Bib when he started at 5 inches or 127 mm erect we can assume that his flaccid girth was around 101.6 mm. Let us round that down to 100 just to make the math a little easy to follow. according to Kyrpa in his load calculator this would make his 0.1 Mpa 3 lb and his 0.5 Mpa 15lb. Kind of makes sense that many guys see gains while hanging start to really show in the 15-20 lb range. (Note: we are using 0.5 Map as the start of the plastic region. The region on the stress-strain curve in which the material deform permanently is called plastic region)

We know, as I mentioned before, that he worked up to 45 LB. And we also know that his final girth was 6.5 erect girth represents 165.1 erect girth that when we make the conversion to flaccid we end up at 132.1mm Lets round that down to 130 mm for the sake of this explanation. That would put him just entering the plastic region at 25.5 LB at that girth.

Once again he worked his way up that entire elastic region that according to Shiver. In fact he worked a small amount into what Shiver considers the plastic region at 40-63 LB. By his own assumption Bib says that he only stayed in that weight for a couple of weeks. He also mentions the majority of his gains came from the 17.5-22.5 LB range.

This would give a very clear picture, thanks to Kyrpas load calculator, of the amount of weight that should produce results. Kind of almost guaranteed results.

What do you think??

Bib targeted his ligaments and says he thinks his gains where all due to ligament deformation. The load calcultlator etc is about stretching the TA to give permanent length.

Two different things

He has actually said half came from the tunica. I think at best he deformed the ligaments and pulled out the inner penis.

So are you saying the load calculator can not be applied to somebody hanging straight down or BTC? Why?

Bib has mentioned many times he has always had weak collagen tissue . He’s always gotten injuries more so than most guys. On a scale of 1-10 , his collagen tissue might be a 2-3. Most men fall into average , which would be 5. Some have 7 which would cause it to be quite a bit more difficult to gain like bib did, with the weight he used.

Basically he hit the genetic lottery for penis enlargement.

That might be so but then how do you explain the empirical evidence presented by so many on these forums that show gains in the goldilocks zone of 15-20 LB?

Check bibs website forum he says he thinks all his gains came from ligaments, never seen anything saying it was half and half.

You just made that up.
Read the information about the load calculator and the paper where some of the data comes from, it is all to do with the TA. It is trying to calculate starting points where people will see gains with stretching their TA, not their ligaments. Stretching ligaments would have different data as it would have different values for when it reaches elastic and plastic regions etc. The TA can be stretched in many angles the load calculator doesn’t care, it is a good first guess. The load calculator has information about the TA in the calculations and nothing about ligaments. Two different things.

>The more I read the more I think 80-90% of gains come from the ligaments and only 10-20% from the tunica. Am I assuming wrong?<

Yes. Outer tunica gains are made at any angle, and technique, over the life of a hanger’s career. I estimate that I made almost half my gains from tunica stretch. I wish I had actual measures, but prePE, the tip of my penis was below my navel. Well below. Now it is above my navel. So, close to a couple inches gained in tunica. Only tunica gains can do that.

Bigger”

Hope that ends that part of the discussion.

As far as the load calculator and your insistence that it can only be used for the TA I would like to remind you that all angles will have an effect on the TA. Just like you said. Obviously some are more direct work but even those angles have their disadvantages. For example you will find very few people that have gained in the SO position on this forum. Take a sec and search this forum. The reason is simple, at the 9 O´Clock position (SO) your TA, ligaments, internal anchor points, and skin are all working together to resist. Just to add, there is no way you can hang and separate or isolate only one structure. In other words even in BTC you are going to pull on the TA. The big question is to what degree.

Just a reminder that the TA is much tougher than ligaments. The use of the calculator, in my thinking, gives me a load that not only cover the TA but by logical thinking more than cover the ligaments in the BTC position. Why not kill two birds with one stone?

I really don’t think you understand what I am saying.

First off there is a quote on bibs fourm stating he thinks all is gains where form lig stretch. If he changes his ideas over time, nothing I can do about that.

As for the load calculator you have an uncanny knack of taking what I am saying completely incorrectly. I am not talking about angles and what they are used to target, the load calculatot itself is angle agnostic. You want to talk about angles, we don’t need to. In fact we don’t even need to have this conversation if you read the derivation that came along with the load calculator. It gets its data on TA strength from scientific paper, the whole things is based on the TA, I am really struggling to see why you don’t understand that.
You could do a similar thing for ligs if you wanted but the load calculator is for TA.

Edit. I hange SO and got loads of gains from that position

I believe the point G is making is that any weight that is attached to the penis with focus on the TA will also have some impact on the ligs. It may be that 4# weight will sufficient for the TA but may not be enough to have much impact on the ligs, but I don’t know how to calculate what impacts which area.

Yeah. I am trying to say that is a side point which is irrelevant to the point I was making. I am saying the load calculator is concerned with calculating weight to get the strain correct for getting permanent gains from TA stretch. If you want to calculate similar for ligs then you should use or create something else.

This is interesting. I know folks used to say target ligs first and TA second as TA is harder to get gains from. As we talked about on other thread light weight hanging has been shown to get good results from target the TA with heat. Which could turn that argument on its head.

Folks may have struggled to get gains fromTS if they hung heavy weights on their docks first looking for lig gains, they would have tuffened the TA before trying to gain from it.

I’m all for gaining from both at the one time, whatever works.

You just made my case.

This thread is about using the calculator for the whole purpose of calculating the 0.5 Mpa based on your particular girth. Note I don´t care about the .1 or .17 Mpa. I want to have a calculated weight at what just might be the the bare minimum weight needed to see some result (without heat).

There seems to be enough empirical evidence to suggest that what the load calculator gives as a 0.5 result as the starting point of the weight MANY have seen started giving them results (results = gains).

For example a guy with 100mm flaccid girth should start to see gains at 15 LB if not using heat. I also think heat will lower that weight by 25%.

See I don´t care about the TA, ligament or angles (even if BTC is king and that is a fact).

The only things that I care about is that girth plays a huge role in calculating the amount of weight needed to stretch or deform the penis AND that there is a suggested weight that can be calculated by the load calculator. This result seems to fit very well with the empirical evidence that many have mentioned as the weight they started to see gains.

Did that help you understand?

Just two questions.

When did you start?

How much have you gained? (assuming that you have only used SO)

I am aware you are trying to compare empirical data that people reported when targeting their ligs, I am going off what bib said recently on his forum about his gains, with derived data that is derived specifically for TA.

No need to do that. We already know that the TA is harder to stretch than the ligaments. Whatever the calculated load will more than surpass the required load for the ligaments.