Condom pumping

Avocet,

Here’s my latest. After reading about recovery (I have had diminished erection strength for the past few days), collective wisdom is that either vacuum or time is too much. Took a day off, erection strength much improved. In a recovery article, one of the guys talked about how he has had much better results with 5-10 min. heat wrap, 10-15 min jelque, heat again then quit!!! 5-6 days a week. He found he got much better results then a longer work-out. This goes to my stimulate-then recover questions. So….this morning I decided to do the pumpers version of that workout. Heat wrap, then vacuum for a total of 10 minutes, with the base vacuum at 2-3 in. hg. “Jelque” the tube to a pressure of 5-6 in. hg., for 2-3 sec hold then return to base line of 2-3 in. hg. Gradually over the 10 minutes I increased the peak pressure to 7, then to 8 in hg. Oh yeah, used a condom over the penis to prevent extra cellular fluid migration. Results….ripped my penis clean off! Nahh, just joking. Actually when I was looking at what a 7-8 in hg pull did, it really seems to expand the girth (length is harder to judge because the tube is moved up), as well as producing significant traction force. Side effects, for the first time I noticed tiny red dots on the penis shaft when I finished. No fluid build up, however a smallish red area in the skin of the shaft (previous small bleed) expanded. Conclusions; Jelqing is a tried and proven method for many, it incorporates a 2-3 sec pull (cycle). I has been shown to increase both length and girth. The problem is there is no easy way to reproduce or measure the pressures generated. If we can developed a similar technique with the vacuum pump, it can allow others to almost exactly duplicate a successful routine. I believe that pumping can produce enough traction force for lengthening, as well as girth gains. This routine incorporates the best ( I believe) concepts of wet jelqing, cycling, condom pumping and recovery. On a personal note; I also need to lay off a few days and let the small bleed heal. Pressure was probably a little too high for my level of tissue conditioning ( 2-3 weeks). I will keep the baseline pressure the same but will keep the max to 6 in hg, and then gradually increase it. Also of note, no discoloration. For now I plan on an every other day schedule, keeping time 10-15 minutes, baseline pressures 2-3 in hg, and max pressures 5 to 10 in. hg. max., working slowly up to that 10 in hg max over a period of weeks.

So now that I’ve figured it all out on paper, alls’ thats left is for it to actually work! LOL! I would love to get some feed back from you and other experienced guys.

Thanks!

Oh yeah, here in California, we have something called a 99 cent store. They sell boxes of 12 condoms for one dollar! Great deal and they work fine.

Thanks,

Sparkyx

Sparkyx,

Interesting posts here and on the cycling pressure post. It’s clear you’ve given some thought to this whole process. But I’m not so sure I agree with “the less is more” emphasized in parts of your posts.

I jelqed for 6 months. I jelqed long, I jelqed slow. I jelqed hard, I jelqed short. I jelqed everywhich way imaginable, with every possible grip. The net result — better veination and erections, but marginal gains. 1/8” in length and girth. Maybe. I believed and still do that I have very tight and tough tissues that would require substantial force to get to grow. I would read these posts about folks doing just 15 minutes a day of jelqing and getting an inch gain over the same time period and I would think they either have very soft, stretchable tissue, or they have figured some secret I missed, or they are full of it.

I hung for 4 months. I credit hanging with giving me another 1/8” gain in length and really loosening up my dorsal lig. But with a very low LOT and only about 50 minutes a day available for PE, it was clear to me that hanging while it would produce gains over the long haul, it was going to be a very a long haul indeed and would do little for me girthwise in the meantime. I still have my Bib hanger and will go back to it at some point.

So I’ve been pumping for the last 6 months, combined with cable squeezes and jelqing. I credit this routine for about 1/4” in length and 3/8” in girth gains. I now feel like I’m making some real progress. I use cycling and stroking with the tube, as well as condom pumping, but not exclusively. I will push the pressure up pretty high but keep my time in the tube short (10 minutes). Have a good erection going in the tube and maintaining it through out is absolutely key.

My PE experience is teaching me what Bib and a number of PE vets were saying — that the path to gains is to significantly stress the tissues without injuring them. Its a fine line that I crossed once with hanging and a suffered lig pull that put me on the shelf for a couple of weeks, and now with some bruising from pumping. But I’m careful. I have also learned that to adequately stress my tough tissues and body composition I have had to use weights, pumping pressure, extra cable sessions, etc that others might find uncomfortable or excessive.

To each his own is what I have also learned based on my own experience and what I’ve read from others at Thunders. There are certain principles (like those you intelligently described) that might be universal truths across PE but the best routines in applying those principles for each of us can vary substantially in giving the best results.

Good luck with your routine and keep those thoughtful posts coming!

Tally

Tallythwacker,

Excellent and thoughtful response.

This is the type of dialog that I am looking for. I think that if you start at a baseline of time X force and gradually increase one or both of the parameters until you get a response, it would eventually lead to reproduceble, consistent results. Yes, I think one of the big variables is the “toughness” of an individuals connective tissues. What I like about the approach I mentioned is that it is objectifiable and quantifiable. The scientific approach is to limit your variables, then intelligently change then in a way that allows you to determine changes in outcomes. I have been “experimenting” with strength gaining ( as in weight lifting gains) routines for many years, and have developed some exceptional programs. The main problem is when I am experimenting by myself, it takes at least 1-3 months to see if the program is really effective in surpassing previous strength plateaus. If I change the variables at all…another 3 months. Throw in a injury or 2 a year, and you can see it is a very time consuming process. The great thing about this forum, is we as a group could decide on certain experiments, then farm out the different parameters, and get a whole lot of feed back in a relatively short period of time.

For example have 5 guys do the condom/pumping/jelquing routine for 1 ten minute cycle daily. Then 5 guys that do it every other day. All would condom pump/jelque at a specified pressure/time and report back the results after 1 month. You could then, have one group keep the time the same, but increase peak pressure…the other group keep same pressure, but double the time. In this manner, we could stair step the forceXtime and keep track and chart the results. In a very short period of time, I believe we could start to get some real answers. I believe that we would find the threshold where time X force begins to show growth, at what point it peaks and where the returns begin to diminish. Of course it would be a range of time X force, but it would be extremely useful to know the range to explore where you could find your personal time X force optimum range.

Anyway, I’m just a newbie at this, so I am looking for feed back and exchange from men like yourself. The more quality information I have, the quicker I can approach this thing in an effective way.

Thanks,

Sparkyx

Tallythwacher,

One more thing “I jelqed for 6 months. I jelqed long, I jelqed slow. I jelqed hard, I jelqed short. I jelqed everywhich way imaginable, with every possible grip”. This is the problem with this report…at what range of pressures? You can’t report, because you don’t know. Now imagine if every guy that got good results could tell you the exact pressures that either were effective or not. You would then be able to see if you were under or over those effective ranges…it would be way more helpful. That’s way if we do the research with the pump and vacuum gauge, it has the potential to really take alot of the guess work out of this stuff.

Thanks,

Sparkyx

Sparkyx,

I know some others on the main board have looked into bringing more science into the equation. I don’t recall what the result has been. I know one of the issues has been devising a good experiment then convincing enough members to participate in it. Most seem to want to do their own thing and not deviate from their routines to undertake an experiment with unknown results. It’s sort of a Catch 22.

I do know that there is huge interest in the science behind PE on the board. Posts that go into the scientific discussions about lig elasticity and the like are eagerly read. So having another person with a scientific bent like yourself is a real plus. We can especially use one among us pumpers.

Tally

You are doing some real helpful, creative thinking and we all appreciate that.

I’ve noticed about condom pumping specifically that I can sustain somewhat higher HG levels with one on, but not much higher that my usual max. I get the same expansion, length and girth, in the tube as I do without one however the “bounce-back” factor, for lack of a better term - the engorgement that occurs after the restraining condom has been take off - is much more significant and lasts longer than non-comdom pumping does.

The benefit of this is that micro-tears following a workout get to heal (and they do heal rather quickly unless we’ve really beaten ourselves up from the routine) and do so while the penis is in a larger than normal state.

Hey Avocet!

Yes, not a proper description on my part. By cell walls, I actually meant the walls of the capillaries, which are composed of cells attached together. With inflammation, or under pressure, the cells which normally prevent the escape of excess fluid, are moved slightly apart allowing additional fluids to migrate out of the normal circulatory and lymphatic system into the surrounding tissue (interstitial spaces). That at least is my understanding. “Lymphatics” refer to a network of vessels, separate from the circulatory system, that assists in circulating body fluids. These vessels transport excess fluids away from interstitial spaces in body tissue and returns it to the bloodstream (when lymphatic vessels are damaged or blocked, that area of the body swells up with the excessive buildup of interstitial fluids). Lymphatic vessels also prevent the back flow of the lymph fluid. Just as the primary mover of the circulatory system (blood) is the heart, the primary pump of the lymphatic system is the contraction of muscles during movement and exercise.
” (avocet) It’s not the skin that is absorbing lymphatic fluid. The fluid accumulates under the skin, between it and the tunica. Lymphatic fluid goes no deeper than the tunica.” Yes, you are right about the lymphatic fluid, and that is what I meant.
The “bounce back” or rebound factor is interesting. I’m clueless as to what the mechanism may be. For those of you who water pump, do you get the same effect? If not, do you get a rebound with normal pumping but using a cock ring to approximate the constriction effect that the bottom of a condom produces?
On a personal note, I’ve taken to either condom or water pumping at a base of 1-3 in hg, jelqing the tube to pressures of 4-5 in hg, holding the high pressure for 3 seconds. Did this for about 10 minutes, then finished with a 5 minutes steady hold at 2 in hg. Water pumping is done in the bath tub, filled with hot water, to keep the tube nice and hot, to hopefully allow for maximum connective tissue stretch. Condom pumping is done with a rice sock or heating pad during the session. I would eventually like to try the last 5-10 minute low pressure stretch (1-2) and allow my penis to cool in the extended state. I had to take a few days off, in that the rigidity of my erections were suffering. After 2 days, rigidity returned nicely. Because of that, I’ve adopted the new lower pressure ranges, and will for now pump every 1 out of 2 or three days. Last nite when I had sex with my wife, I swear I looked bigger. Of course, it could all be in my head. I still haven’t taken a bpel measurement, need to get a ruler! So much for the “scientific” approach.
By the way, started experimenting with l-arginine…took 1.5 grams ( on an empty stomach) 2 hours before having sex with my wife, I swear I was harder for it! That isn’t conclusive though, had too many variables going in this experiment…the increased hardness could well have been the recovery from the pumping and kegels. I will continue to experiment with the l-arginine and let you guys know. Anyone have feedback on the arginine?
Anyway, thanks for the feedback Avocet and Tallythwacker, we have some smart guys on this forum, you’d think we should be able to make some real discoveries!
Regards,
Sparkyx

By the way Avocet, what Island are you on?

Wildly off-topic question. That’s called Thread Hijacking, sparky. Use the PM system for things like that but this time I’ll save you a PM.

The island where Honolulu is.

____

Back to the subject and your question:

L-a most often takes a week or two to kick in, so it isn’t something you’ll get best results from if taken on a per-intercourse basis.

Thanks for the clarifications re: capillaries, etc. Now I see what you are saying and I agree with you.

Re: Bounce Back
My guess is that when using a tight condom, the ring at the base is acting like a cock ring does, holding more blood in the shaft than the venous system can normally drain off. At the same time the constricting rubber sheath portion on the shaft, also exerts a constant, all-around inward pressure during the duration of the pump. When the condom is removed and all constrictions are gone, there may be a greater than normal insurge of blood to compensate for the constriction that was occuring, thus the longer-than normal post-pump engorgement?

Sorry about the tread-jacking! Now I know.

As far as the rebound effect, your guess is as good as any right now.

I’ve been thinking about enzymes. Enzymes? Yeah, and I’ll tell you why. After over doing PE, it is difficult getting a hard erection for many of us. I used to believe that it was due to compromising the valves of the penis hydraulic system. The other night I took dose of viagra, and I was stomach slapping hard!!! Obviously no problem with the valves! Viagra works by inhibiting PDE5 which is an enzyme that causes increased levels of cGMP in the corpus cavernosum, resulting in smooth muscle relaxation and inflow of blood to the corpus cavernosum. Soooo, maybe excess tissue trauma causes an increase of PDE5 which then leads to decreased erectile rigidity? Anyway, just guessing. I don’t think the rebound is due to the blood returning, I wondering if it is some sort of enzyme response.

regards,

Sparkyx

Sparkyx: I’ve also noticed similar (not identical of course) results with 3~4mg of L-Arginine. I think all the PE’g is also reducing available NO2…too many hardons.

sparky: “Soooo, maybe excess tissue trauma causes an increase of PDE5 which then leads to decreased erectile rigidity?”

My guess is that the hormone prolactin may play the greater role in decreased rigidity following workouts that are too robust, much as it does in determining the duration of our refractory periods following ejaculation.

Over-stimulation and manipulation during PE may send a message to the pituitary gland that the show has ended, or needs to end; prolactin levels then increase very quickly and dampen the possibility of another erection for awhile.

If you are young and have no ED but can’t end your PE routine with an erection, you’ve probably overdone some aspect of it.

Question about condom pumping: does it matter what size condoms you use?

I want to use the cheapest condoms I can find for this and they don’t fit me all the way down to the base. is this alright or shuold I really use a larger size so that the whole surface area is covered?

I think it works best if they are very snug over the entire shaft, even tight. I agree on the cheap part, for this. WalMart has the best deals where I live.