For the pumpers who've had permanent results - how hard is your dick?

Okay, this is a serious question. I’ve been doing some thinking about pumping vs. other forms of PE and before anyone jumps down my throat for brining up the permanency of pumping yet again, just hear me out.

Manual PE works (supposedly) because the internal pressure generated regularly stretches the CS, CC and tunica beyond their normal erect size, eventually resulting in their healing in a somewhat enlarged state, with a greater capacity for holding blood.

Pumping applies pressure externally and while it results in an enlarged state, critics point out that much of that size is NOT due to CS, CC, and tunica expansion, but rather due to lymph fluid collecting under the skin and on TOP of the tunica. Therefore, they say, any size increases that occur with regular pumping will never be present with normal, nonpumped sexual erections. What’s more, they argue, pumped erections are not hard, but simply big, soft, squishy, floppy sacs.

But pumping propenents will point out that only some of the expansion that occurs during pumping is due to lymph under the skin. They also maintain that some of the size increase is indeed due to CC, CS and tunica expansion (just not all of it); and that, over time, non-pumped, normal sexual erections will eventually reflect some of that increased size.

Now here’s the thing. If this last part is true, then normal, nonpumped sexual erections should be larger due to a greater blood-holding capacity in the CC, CS and a larger tunica - but with no lymph under the skin.

So I guess the real test for whether or not this is true is, does the enlarged, nonpumped sexual erection feel rock hard to the touch? If the answer is “yes”, then clearly the CC, CS, and tunica have been enlarged in much the same way that they would be from manual PE.

I’m seriously considering a pumping-only routine at this point. My gains are completely stagnant and my motivation is at a low. I can’t pull or squeeze any harder than I currently am. I squeeze so hard that my hands cramp up. Now I can deadlift 350 x 10 without straps so I don’t think that hand strength is a problem. Yet, I never see more than a .25” increase in girth after any squeeze session. In fact, it’s been this way for about 5 months now - I squeeze, uli and bend until my dick is covered with red spots, but I only see 6.25” in girth post workout - which invariably shrinks back down to my usual 6” within hours - no, make that minutes. This has happened every workout for 5 months, so don’t tell me to “give it time and be patient”. Reason and sanity tell me that this is not working.

Same thing for stretches. I can pull for half an hour and still my flaccid stretched length doesn’t go anywhere. That temporary increase in FSL that is supposed to happen after a good length session isn’t there. And I feel that if I pull or squeeze any harder I’ll burst something.

I had thought that a one month break would decondition my unit and make it more pliable. Well, it ain’t happening. If anything, it feels even tougher than before - like the break gave it time to heal up stronger than ever! Yes, the gain during the break was nice - but what now?

I’m at the point where I can’t devote any more time or energy to this. I’m coming down the homestretch on my Master’s work and I don’t have 20 hours a week to hang (plus I feel like I’d probably need to use about 40 lbs to get a response).

You know what? If I’m going to be rewarded with minimal results *no matter what I do, even if I work as hard as I can*, then I may as well put forth minimal effort.

Pumping takes minimal effort and I can even read my notes and do some classwork while pumping in the privacy of my locked room. It’s the bottom of the PE barrel - minimum effort, minimum long term results (you need to do a maintainence routine). But if it’ll give me that extra 1” x 1” gain that I want, heck, I’ll do the maintainence work outlined by Avocet. Maintainence work - if pumping will get me another 1” x 1” - I can deal with doing that once or twice a week, because it’ll be worth it.

But the idea of having a floppy, squishy lymph sac instead of a rock hard tool is unacceptable.

So, my question is simple: For the pumpers who’ve seen an increase in size in their normal, non pumped sexual erections - is your dick just as hard as before you started pumping?

Ed,
Without a doubt, the pumped woody, just out of the tube, is not a rock-hard boner. Much of the size is due to the lymph fluid you mentioned. Think about it, there is NO WAY in hell that those massive sizes often attained in the tube is due to CC/CS expansion. Think when you jelk or uli until your cock is about to burst; sure, there is some workout increase in size, but not nearly the hugeness temporarily obtained in the tube. Your dick would literally explode if you tried to power-ram that much blood into the CC/CS.

That being said, I’ve come to believe that pumping can offer some permanent benefits in several circumstances - such as combining pumping with manual PE or hanging.
OR…
If you pump for long periods, at low pressure, in a narrow long tube - I believe that it would act as an effective stretch/low-level ADS kind of effect. It would not hit ligs, of course, but would be keeping a firm vacuum-pull on the tunica, without all the hand/arm fatigue.

But I’ve been to hard-core pumper’s forums (back when I was really looking at pumping), and many 20-year vets lamented, “Permanent? When? I’ve been at this shit 20 years and if I quit for more than a few weeks, I’m back to square one.”

>>”I had thought that a one month break would decondition my unit and make it more pliable. Well, it ain’t happening. If anything, it feels even tougher than before - like the break gave it time to heal up stronger than ever! Yes, the gain during the break was nice - but what now?”

Why not keep alternating those breaks?

- w a d

>>>>>>Without a doubt, the pumped woody, just out of the tube, is not a rock-hard boner. Much of the size is due to the lymph fluid you mentioned. Think about it, there is NO WAY in hell that those massive sizes often attained in the tube is due to CC/CS expansion. Think when you jelk or uli until your cock is about to burst; sure, there is some workout increase in size, but not nearly the hugeness temporarily obtained in the tube. Your dick would literally explode if you tried to power-ram that much blood into the CC/CS.

Is it possible that the pumpers who complain about “no permanent gains” are expecting unrealistic results? Say that you started with a girth of 5”. Let’s say you’ve been a hardcore pumper for 20 years and can pump up to 9” girth (and there are some long term pumpers who say that they can do just that). Say you stop all pumping for a few weeks and shrink down to, say, 5.75” girth (but rock hard, no lymph). Wouldn’t that seem like “back to square one, dammit!” (I mean, if you were used to having a 9” baseball bat girth, going down to 5.75” would seem like a frickin’ pencil).

I’m just throwing out a hypothetical example. I could be wrong, of course.

Did they really say that they go all the way back to square one - and gave their exact before/after measurements and everything? If so, then that sucks.

>>>>>>>>>Why not keep alternating those breaks?

You mean PE with no results for another 4 months, then take a break and hope that history repeats itself and I get another pleasant surprise?

I could always try that if I get desperate. Let’s face it - I got nothing *else* to try.

You ever read all that bullshit I wrote about The Shining?

Metal;

A couple things: I’ve never said that PE in general, no matter how you go about it, including pumping, is permanent for all men. I believe that for some, yes. For all, no. Some of us need a boost now and then in the form of some kind of maintenance program.

Frankly, I have no investment in whether you take up pumping or not so I am not trying to shill you in saying the following.

The gains I reported over various times in Size’s Data Pages were non-pumped, measured at least a day after my last pump, or several days after. Just a “normal,” manually-stimulated erection. There was no evidence of lymphatic fluid retention (I would know if there had been); just a very firm, blood erection perfectly useable for any kind of sex. Nothing remotely spongy about it.

If you get your gain goals and then you quit PE, I believe that you have a good shot at losing at least some of your gains over time unless you commit to some sort of, at least casual, maintenance program for the long haul after PE.

I also believe that if you pump sensibly and incorporate manual exercises between short but multiple pump sets you will get better gains than you will by pumping alone. I also believe that extreme pumpers who spend long periods of time in the cylinder at higher pressures do not actually expand the blood-holding capacity of the cavernosal chambers. They do increase their capacity for holding lymphatic fluid under the skin. Looks terrific for awhile, but can you fuck effectively with a “stuffer?”

Size counts, but hardness counts more while you are getting and giving sexual pleasure. The visual of whatever other result is just that: visual.

Metal,

I used to do just jelq and stretches etc… then hit a plateau. I have now over a year later incorporated pumping. I have been a bodybuilder for about 15 years and I too have tremendous strength in my hands….so that was not a problem.

Pumping:
I can say this with certainty. When I now use jelq exercises between my short pumping sets just like AVOCET8 advocates( tongue twister there :) , I feel a definite difference in the way my penis is getting worked. Furthermore this I truly believe is coming from blood and not the lymph fluid. Yes pumpers get this fluid but if done right will go away quickly.
I will do 1 second jelqs for about 3 minutes between sets. I don’t have to use nearly the force I had to before to get a great result.

Just like bodybuilding in my case, I believe PE requires variety and combinations of exercises to get the best gains in “most” cases.

Try pumping you have nothing to lose. I used to also think that pumping was bogus, but it is not. There a lot of pumpers here to help you along. Good luck.

Metal,

Do you get fluid buildup from your “regular” girth sessions?

Oh by the way, at 8x6 I really don’t feel “bad” for you. I do hope you get what you want though.

Thanks A8, this is exactly what I was hoping to hear.

If I work girth long enough, yes. There have been times where I’ve gotten an ugly knob of flesh bulging out of the circ. scar from uli’s - similar to when I have pumped at too high a pressure for too long.

I’m thinking of trying a VERY modest routine for a couple of months - maybe just 30 minutes of pumping (at no more than 4 in HG), just 3 days a week - just to see what’ll happen. I’m curious. This will be very modest compared to what I have gotten used to doing. Also easier, and will allow me to get some reading done while I PE. I’ve got nothing to lose, anyway.

I have pumped for about 5 years. On and off and at first with the idea i was going to get great growth and make a huge dong. But after a few years and improved erections i decided its just good for you. I didnt take measurements but I did get growth (girth only not a single millimeter in length). And even though you dont hold the size you get right after pumping it does make for better harder erections (give it a few hours of rest).

Im new to the jelq exercises and i have new hope that this will make it grow.

I think jelqing is safer and gives a more intense workout. Now i use the pump only for warming up. I fill it with hot water and put under 5 pressure. And in between jelqing ill reheat with the pump with minor pressure. Pumping has discolored me and im stoping for a while in hopes that goes away.

I to lift weights and im sure you understand lactic acid build up. Just like a marathon runner with his trained high twitch muscles fibers. He works his leg muscles for endurance not for size. If working out at high reps every day caused enormous growth a marathon runners legs would he huge. Instead they almost look like they are starving and unhealthy.

Be sure you penis exercise reflect the gold your trying to obtain. I hesitate to equate penis exercises with body building. But I keep reading on this site where guys stop their exercises or they slow down and then they get growth.

For a long time, over 10 years I was a manual pumper. I gained just almost 2 in. In girth and more than 1 in. In length. I went through several pumps, went up 2 tube sizes & did the pumpers weekends in Palm Springs too. The Palm Springs Pumpers are pros, they know their stuff and gave me great tips & encouragement. Pumping alone worked for me. Now I do a combo of electric pumping with a pulse set up as well as a regular stretch routine. The pump only routine rendered great results but it was gradual. Is it hard, 80% - 95% and that is plenty hard, when I am at full size (8” X 7”) a little flexibility is a plus. A hard core with a 1/4” flex wall is how I describe it. Now I am pushing forward for length. The combo is working. That is my story. So take care, relax and do the pump thing for a while. I’ll bet you will see changes

Love your Cock.

Right out of the tube my erection is floppy however after a good pump session I can have erections that wake me up at night with their intensity and hardness. I am convinced it is good therapy for ED long term. lymph fluid build up is not exclusive with stretching the CC, CV or tunica.

Pumping definitely stretches in a narrow enough cylinder you can feel the tug. I attribute much of my long term flaccid gains to the lymph fluid build up. It makes my penis much heavier for days producing a gravity ADS.

Although I’ve used a combination of methods over the years I credit most of my gains (1.5” length, 1” girth) to pumping. I’m considering going back to some serious pumping and I would appreciate it if Jimbig could give some detail on the Palm Springs pro pumpers methods and advice.

I had girth permanent increase, foreskin growth and some lenght gains. Good erections. From pump only. Of course in the tube I am bigger than out of it.

Could you post some information regarding your past and current routine. I know this is off topic, so if not in this thread, then starting your own…?

I did a search for palm springs pumpers and found some pictures. They seem to pump to the extreme with overly excessive lymph build up. It did not look good/healthy at all.

Back to the topic, I have had success and growth from pumping and my erections are rock hard. However the furthest I ever go lymph wise is a very small donut. I employ both jelqing and pumping in a routine. I have done the low 2-4 hg routine before but it didn’t work all that great for me. I tend to hover in the 5-6.5 hg area when pumping although I do not overdo my time in the pump.