The physics of force transmission in air versus water pumping

I should read all the posts before I post. LOL

I have been using water pumping for a while, and in the past couple months I have had an increase of about 1/4 inch of LUV (length under vacuum). That is, with 5 in hg, I have seen 1/4 inch increase. This has been a slow, but progressive change. I have also seen girth gains, but that just measuring by eye.

It turns out that I am using a water pumping version of this:

Speaking to Big Gainer soon at least in my mind it is. Post #92 is Wad’s summary of it, and its really worth the read.

If this continues to work for me, I will be very pleased, in that its safe (5 in hg), so far effective and it takes a lot of the guesswork out, also my EQ has been very good with partial to full erections just about everytime I wake up enough at nite to notice. As I have stated before, I believe good to excellent nite wood may be a critical factor in growth, and definitely in penile health. So, I am very pleased as of now with the results. I think it will take a few more months to really evaluate it.

In this thread I give a more complete rundown of what I am doing;
Why do they say pumping is not permanent but clamping is? at post #51 I start to go into details.

For me the keys have been daily pumping, with the right level of vacuum for me (5 in hg), and slow progression of time once I found the right vacuum level. For now I have settled on adding 1 additional minute to the daily time each week. If thats confusing, it means this last week I did 17 minutes/day, and this week 18 minutes daily. Next week I will move up to 19 minutes. For me, the right level is that which isn’t so high that you crash your EQ with the daily routine, yet enough to see gains.

I had experimented with 3-8 even 9 in hg, but it wasn’t until I started using 5 in hg that I started to see steady gains.

The density of the fluid determines the force necessary to reach 5 hg pressure in the brake lines, for example. Brake fluid is denser than air so it only requires the brake peddle to be depressed 1 inch or so to generate the required pressure. If the brake lines were filled entirely with air, you would have to depress the peddle several feet to generate enough force to generate 5 hg of pressure in the lines. The amount of force required to generate the same pressure with air in the lines would depend on the exact mixture of fluid and air but it would be somewhere between 1 inch and several feet.
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As I theorized in my earlier post, I believe the vacuum remains at the same 5 hg level on all surfaces within the closed container, including the penis, regardless of the medium..If we were to fill our tubes with sand, the force necessary to generate a 5 hg vacuum would depend on the amount of sand and the amount of air between the grains. I believe the amount of force would be between what is required for water and air, but what is going to suck out the sand without allowing air to replace it.

I have pumped with both air and water and the girth of my pumped penis upon exiting the tube is generally the same in either case. I previously thought my water pumped penis was slightly more spongy, but that could be because I don’t use a gauge when water pumping, just feel and the pressure may have been higher than I perceived it.

Unfortunately, we will not be able to come to any definitive conclusion unless we get a trained engineer involved.

It would have to be liquid, molten sand, though, in order to eliminate the air between the grains of sand.

And the temperatures involved in that would pose a whole new set of problems. :)

Ok it all boils down to the water creating a better vacuum than air, I think. But then why people report less fluid build-up with water pumping? This seems to show the adverse of what we are assuming.

Less for the SAME vacuum level. I think for the same reason its more effective, non compressibility. I think the water makes fluid less likely to migrate to the surface tissue because it is effecting the deeper structures more efficiently, and draws less at the surface tissues. However, go past a certain point and you are more likely to get blisters than with air pumping.

Really, its all academic until you actually experiment with it and see for yourself.

‘Less for the SAME vacuum level’ - what is being said here is that for a given vacuum level the force applied would be higher on the penis, so it is like using a higher vacuum level. This should draw more fluids, not less.

I just tried water pumping; not sure I noticed a better effect (I’m speaking of absolute level of force now, because I pump without a gauge). The good thing is it is less messy. :)

I guess the weight of the sand would push out air. Or it could be done with salt water; if one wanted to try a very high level of force (what would not really be a good idea for the vast majority of people).

Uhm, I’m getting a bit confused with this topic. Let’s see : you have a tube, your penis and water inside. You pull out water, without making air go in. Now how are you holding the tube?

I mean, if you hold it toward the ceiling, water remain at the base; penis try to fill the vacuum, but is restrained by the density of the water; it would be kind pumping inside a strong condom. I think the clearly effect of the water, in this case, would be null as far as expansion goes : the same density of the water, which should allows a greater expansion of the penis, is restraining the penis from expanding. So you are right here Sparkyx, there would be less fluid build up, because fluids are less dense than water.

If you point the pump toward the floor, water will do go down; penis should expand more; but, without water pressing on the penis, fluids would be drawn to the surface.

So, when water pumping, one should be aware tha what he is reading on the gauge could be more force than adviced - 5hg could be 7, actually - but also that the pressure is working in a different manner, depending on which direction the pump is pointed.

This, with an air pump used with water; maybe the bathmate works in a different way, I don’t know.

I think it might have to do with sweating.

When I air pump my tube fills with moisture (condensation) as water is being pulled out of the skin. Having water in the tube prevents this from happening.

I have certainly found that i get far more fluid build up at the same pressure if i point the tube down, my feeling is that its just the effect of gravity on

blood flow ?

I cant help thinking also that the use of a liquid in the tube presents other possibilities ,

for instance adding substances to water to counter discolouration, increase blood flow or soften tissue, or using fluids other than water which may be denser

or retain heat better ?

For some reason i keep thinking about how salt water conducts electricity but i think i may be losing my grip on reality !

I’ve been thinking about that too. Why should that be? One thought I’ve had has to do that with water pumping, you have water OUTSIDE the penis (in the cylinder) and water INSIDE the penis (in the tissues and the blood vessels).

Water is going to be relatively incompressible (or nonexpandable) wherever it is, whether it is inside or outside the penis.

With water pumping, there is water outside the penis, water INside the penis, and a barrier of tissues in between. The tissues act as a barrier to complete equalization of forces inside and outside the penis, but as the forces equalize (through expansion of the penile tissues), there is no particular reason for the water to ‘want to be’ either inside or outside the penis. It’s got no reason to move. And what’s outside the penis is noncompressible water, so if water did want to try to escape into the intracellular spaces, the expansion would have to take place by compressing the water all around the penis, and it can’t do that.

I’m thinking that water outside the penis may hold back water inside the penis leaking from the blood vessels and cells into the intracellular spaces. This would also explain why condom pumping works, by the way. It’s encouraging the TISSUES to expand more, rather than allowing intracellular leakage.

There is a LOT of air between the grains of sand. Take a glass, fill it up with sand, then take a calibrated amount of water (say, from a measuring cup) and start pouring it into the glass of sand. See just how much more space you are filling up between the grains of sand.

Negative. Your dick sweats (or loses water through the cell walls into the cylinder) either way, is my guess. You just don’t see it when you’re water pumping, because it’s lost into the surrounding water. Think about it - do you think you don’t sweat when you’re in a hot tub? You do; it’s just that you’re sweating into the water around you.

(Now try not to think about all the other people who have been in the hot tub sweating into the hot tub water before you were there, the next time you get in a hot tub.)

I’ve also been thinking about how tap water is hypo-osmular - it’s less salty and less ‘dense’ than your plasma and body fluids. That would encourage your ‘saltier’ penis and tissues to take in fluids as it tries to equalize with the surrounding hypotonic water.

One strategy to reduce fluid buildup in the penis might just be to add a little salt to the water you’re pumping in, so that it is closer to the salinity of your blood, lymph and body fluids. If it was REALLY salty, it would tend to draw water OUT OF your penis, so you don’t want too much of that; not to mention, you don’t want to wind up with a brined or pickled penis.

Thats if it effects the tissues the same way air does. Regardless of what we think “should” happen, what DOES happen is you get less edema for the same time and vacuum levels. This is the observation of most people that try water pumping, but you need a gauge to accurately reproduce vacuum levels.

I speculate that because it causes more expansion of the tunica, less pull is exerted on the surface tissues, so less edema. IF air doesn’t expand the tunica as effectively, then the surface tissue try to fill the vacuum, so more fluid migration in the skin. Anyway its all just my best guess. What isn’t a guess is observed effect under identical conditions.

Not to be argumentative, Sparkyx, but I find the idea of the density of water - the condom analogy - more reasonable. If this is true, water pumping could allow more versatiliy : for example, let’s say you fill the tubes only partly with water, so much that your glans is out of the water where the shaft is in water. This could reduce girth expansion and allow more axial expansion, so would be more effective for length - leading to save some money because you could avoid to buy a narrower cylinder. If we could find an even denser fluid/mixture, then versatility would be even greater.

I would be foolish to argue about something that I am just guessing on anyway.

I don’t know why it does what it does, my explanations are pure speculation. My real interest is results, and I am cautiously optimistic about those at this point in my experiment.

I’m just trying to dial in the vacuum/time levels and productive progressions of those perimeters. I’ll let you guys hash out the rest.