The Physics of Water Pumping

Even with the tube completely vertical, the positive pressure gradient would be minimal/not noticeable. So you would still get basically even expansion.

Out of curiosity, why do you do an air pump on the last set?

Becouse my first set that usually is 20 minutes with warm water pumping is like a really good warmup so the tissues are relly warmed up and then I save some time when I switch to my air pump that I pack much faster compared if I would just start out with air pumping..

Makes sense, water pumping for multiple sets sounds like it would be a bit of a hassle. How long do you stay in the tube for your air pumping set?

Sometimes two 20 minutes sets or one 30 minutes sets. My entire session is around 1 hour total.

Could this be helped by increasing the vacuum after a set amount of time?

Say first 20 minutes you’re doing -6”, the following 20 minutes -7”, etc, etc.

I always found raising the pressure with water beneficial with no resulting increase in lymph edema.

Is this not exactly what dynamic pumping does? Just on a much smaller time scale. I think that for some people that have tougher tunica anatomy, anything that allows you to increase negative pressure safely while minimizing fluid retention will always be beneficial. This could be from ever increasing constant vacuums while water pumping to dynamic/cyclic methods, but that’s not really my point here. I’m saying static progressive stretch will always be more beneficial when compared to static progressive pressure.

Not that clear IMO Rootsnatty. Pressure is what stretches.

Correct, and you are always very practical, I love that because it keeps us all honest.

I’m not saying you do not need negative pressure to create a stretch in the cylinder. You absolutely do. I’m just saying that you can use a pump like a static stretcher to some extent. The earlier example of the water draw by mouth is a very good example of how this would work.

So it would be a matter of achieving those essentially immediate expansions as you evacuate water. The kind where pressure spikes very high, and then very quickly and simultaneously the penis expands and the pressure falls once again to near-zero. You can’t do this constantly as you must give the tunica time to relax viscoelastically before you can achieve another quick expansion.

I see this as preferable for two reasons:
1) there is not a constant (higher) vacuum causing fluid to be constantly pushed into the soft penile tissues between the tunica and skin - much less fluid retention
2) and progressive static stretch has been shown to create more permanent tissue elongation/expansion than constant traction

Rootsnatty - thanks for starting this thread and your many thoughtful posts!

One of my PE principles is that excess edema due to lymph fluid is bad and should be avoided. This is particularly important to me as my body ages with a progressively less effective lymphatic system. So, I like the concept of water pumping and this thread is helpful to explain WHY water pumping can reduce edema.

I think my real challenge is the mechanics (technique) of water pumping. In other words, I now know (thanks to this thread) why water pumping works but how can I water pump effectively and consistently? I am reminded of my many readings about the benefits of exercise, types of exercise, etc. only for me to realize that the “best” exercise for me is what I can do consistently, without injury, and with a positive result.

If I recall, in previous threads here on water vs air pumping, the issue is not whether water pumping is effective but rather that water pumping is more difficult and inconvenient to do properly and frequently. I hope this thread will encourage more discussion about “how to…”

Thank you for the kind words.

You are right, water pumping is more of a hassle, but not prohibitively more. Especially not when it comes to the benefits vs. hassle relationship. The thing is, however, if something is too much of a hassle to do consistently it really doesn’t matter how good it works.

I primarily hang, and it is pretty inconvenient in its own way. A large portion of my living room is basically an extended hanging station. By setting up things this way, however, I have made my hanging sessions much more efficient, everything is right there: my IR lamp, my two chairs, my wrapping, my tape, my weights and my hanger. I leave the wrap on between hangs, this reduces hassle. I have my hanger pre-adjusted just the way I like it and I have its attachment down almost to the point of muscle memory. My point is, if something isn’t convenient, do your best to make it convenient.

With regard to water pumping, the bathmate (and its clone) is a step in the right direction in terms of convenience - I mean you basically need a bathmate, a water source, and a bucket and you can water pump anywhere in your home. I do not own one, but the gator system makes it difficult to achieve the type of static progressive stretch pumping I am describing here. Nevertheless, many have gotten great results without the fluid retention common with air pumps.

I have a brake bleeder with a reservoir. Not quite as convenient, but much more dynamic. And it is modular so you just have to get a new tube if you outgrow the one you are using. I think this is the current “professional” way to water pump due to the many options the system gives you.

I use a waterpump together with a thermos jug and a towel. I pressure the too-much-water into the thermos jug. After some time you will know how much water you need in your inital filling of the waterpump to avoid spilling when entering. (speaking of bathmate penomet type waterpump here..)

I manage to use them without much hassle and spill infront of my PC.

I prefer penomet to bathmate as it seems to produce lesser discoloration. Both are totally overpriced though.

Originally Posted by austfred
I wonder if cyclic or dynamic water pumping also involves stress relaxation. With each pump cycle the penis is stretched and you would expect stress relaxation to occur abet not necessarily after the first few cycles.

So the limitation of dynamic pumping is that the pressure is normally not kept high enough for a sufficient time for viscoelastic relaxation to occur which I assume is of the order of 5 mins. So if you had a water pump that kept a high pressure (say 14”Hg for 5 mins) then suddenly reduced it to say 3” Hg and then built back up to 14” Hg you might get good results.

On the question of edemas. I both pump and extend. I found if I used a Mr Fantastic air pump for 30 mins a day ( 2 - 14” Hg) along with a 2 - 3 hours of extending I rarely got edemas. Now I am using a water pump for 1 hour a day I find I do not get edemas if I do not extend but have got edemas especially if I do wantsmore fulcrum stretches using golf weights. On the other hand if I use a silicone sleeve inside the cylinder I do not get edemas.

With water pumping I seem to get more fluid retention in the foreskin but it also quickly subsides and does not seem to be a significant issue

Stress relaxation: this is totally irrespective of pressure - I mean there needs to be an initial pressure to create expansion, but then further constant further pressure becomes irrelevant, except as I will discuss below. Static pumping and dynamic pumping cause creep because they utilize constant internal expansion force, so it keeps expanding. The pressure in dynamic pumping might be cycling but the expansion force is still always there, creating constant expansion. If you evacuate just water, the penis will expand by an equal volume, and the only vacuum remaining will be due to the connective tissues elasticity trying to pull back inwards. So it is held at a constant state of expansion, the stress on the tissue then actually becomes less and the residual vacuum from the elastic tissues decreases.

I’m not sure about extending or fulcrum stretching and edema, or the foreskin thing, but the silicone sleeve or a condom will constrict the shaft and prevent fluid retention. These constriction methods generate an inward force against the soft tissue between the skin and tunica, making it more difficult for lymph and other fluids to get shoved in there.

Austfred, I thought of a good parallel:

Think about your slider. To create the initial stretch your turn the nuts. Turning the nuts can generate a TREMENDOUS amount of force as they are essentially a lever: they turn a long way for a small distance of travel up the rods. But after you are in the stretch, no further application of force is required to hold it there. The penis is still under stress, but this lessens over time as it relaxes. In the water pump, the water works like the nuts, you draw some out, it stretches the penis, and because the water cannot expand, it holds it in a constant state of expansion.