The Physics of Water Pumping

Marinera, That is what got me into pumping after reading Avocet8’s posts. Pumping certainly improves EQ, dynamic pumping does better (at least for me) and my recent experience suggests dynamic water pumping is even better. It has definitely given me girth growth. As far as length, I got most of my growth from extending but have plateaued recently and need to rethink my strategy for further length growth.

Roots, I might have confused you. My current frequency is probably one minute ( 50 sec down, 10 sec up). I can change this as I mentioned am keen to hear what you would recommend.

This thickening (toughening) of connective tissue is of concern. Not sure I want to toughen up my ligs or tunica. So should I increase the cycle to 2 mins or even more?

Regards
Austfred

That range is still probably good. Is there any way to have the mr. Fantastic hold the stretch very briefly at the very top? If not I might make the pressure climb a little slower, if it feels comfortable to do so of course. A true cyclic stretch is defined as short duration. There is little concensus to what “short duration” actually is. Some authors say less than 15 sec., some less than 10 sec., and some less than 5 sec. So I would just characterize any stretch lasting longer than 15 sec. a moderate duration stretch, and being better for permanent deformation.

Roots, The Mr Fantastic pumps have both pump and leak circuits which are independently adjustable. In the pump cycle, the pump keeps working until the max set vacuum is reached and then it cuts out. It does not come on again until the vacuum has leaked out to the min preset value. The programmable vacuum controller which in my opinion is the heart of these units appears very precise and can be set to very precise presets. The leak circuit is less precise and works by allowing a little bit of air in by unscrewing a sort of air tap. You can adjust the pump speed to very slow at which point it is very quiet but it must be sufficient to pump faster than the leak circuit is allowing the air to leak out. The only way to do what you suggest would be to momentarily close off the leak circuit “tap’ to maintain the vacuum.

I will experiment to see how long I can increase the pump cycle time. One way I can is by increasing the vacuum range. I recently changed from 4 - 14” Hg to 3.5 -15” and that had a noticeable impact on the cycle time.

Thanks for this advice. Believe it could be quite valuable.

Austfred

Austfred, so you can set min and max pressure, and adjust how long the air/water takes to leak out, but can you adjust how long it takes to go from min to max pressure?

Roots, yes by adjusting the pump speed. You can also adjust how long it takes to go from max to min vacuum with the leak valve.

The analogy is filling a water barrel with an electric pump when the barrel has a partly open tap at the bottom. If you set the pump speed above that required to replace water leaking out the bottom you will fill the barrel. How long it takes depends both on the pump speed and how quickly the water is leaking out the bottom. With the Mr Fantastic pump both these are adjustable so you have a fair bit of control.

Regards
Austfred

OHHH! So the leak valve is constant, it doesn’t just turn on after max pressure is achieved. I get it, and that’s pretty cool. So if pump speed and leak speed are very close, it will take a long time to reach max pressure. And if the speed is high and leak is low it will quickly reach max pressure then fall slowly back to minimum pressure. And the pump is constantly starting itself at min pressure and stopping itself at max pressure. Am I correct?

Roots

Yes that is correct. The only limitation is that it is not so easy to control the leak rate when the valve is almost closed (ie a micro agjustment in the leak valve can be difficult) so you have less control when you try to get very long pump down cycles.

Austfred

Hi all, this is a very interesting thread and I thought I would chime in.

I have been using a Mr Fantastic pump for about 12 months. For most of that time, I have been using it daily, working up to 2 x 30 min sessions, no days off. Pressure up to 18HG, but cycling up to this maximum slowly near end of each set.

I am also extending for about 2-3 hrs per day.

With this routine I have now reach about 1” more in the tube, and have probably increased EL by 3/4” at least, possibly more.

Girth also increased by about 1/4”.

But in the last 2 months I have been using a silicone sleeve from AB silicone. This has allowed me to increase my time pumping to 60 mins without a break (remembering the Mr Fantastic cycles up and down, my minimum being 3HG).

In these last 2 months I have seen very significant girth and length growth. The pressure of the sleeve greatly reduces fluid buildup, and edema after 60 mins is less than it used to be without a sleeve after 20 mins.

I feel a real “ache” all through the penis, similar to the feel of a heavy clamp session.

I know when I get this ache, from my experience with clamping, that it heralds real girth growth.

I got a real surprise when I measured girth, and am now easily reaching 6” mid shaft consistently.

This thread has done a great job of explaining how / why water pumping works, and I realise the benefits.

But the hassle of messing around with water has always put me off, plus I already own a nice Mr Fantastic air pump and didn’t want yo have to buy another one.

Now, by using he silicone sleeve, air pumpers can achieve the same benefits as water pumping without the hassle.

Silicon sleeves provide one very important benefit of water pumping: they constrict the soft tissues and limit fluid buildup. You do, however, miss out on the heat and the water’s lack of expansion, the 1:1 ratio of evacuation to expansion. The heat issue can be addressed independently, but the lack of expansion cannot. Although if you are doing some form of creep-based pumping (constantly progressed expansion), and you are already controlling your fluid retention, this factor becomes somewhat unimportant.

Most important of all, I wouldn’t want to invest in a water pumping system if I had already invested ~$480 on a pumping system. ;)

One thing to note about constriction sleeves: their elastic nature causes a constant inward positive pressure to act on the penis - this will reduce the expansion force caused by the vacuum slightly.

pinstripeee, rootsnatty

I also have one of those silicone sleeves but only got it recently and have used it intermittently with the Mr Fantastic water pump. Have never used it with the air pump. I also extend 2 -3 hours a day. I agree fluid build up and edema is much less with the silicone sleeve.

With the water pump you do get the benefit of heat and as the silicone is pretty soft I find I still pack the cylinder (minus the thickness of the sleeve). I find the sleeve acts like a thick outer skin but it does not protect the glans.

Hi guys, to address your comment about heat Roots, I always use a heat sock, this is really important. I got an old sock and stuffed it with dry rice, then heat in microwave for 3 minutes. I use it for pumping, extending and clamping, religiously.
Austfred, I don’t have any problem with the glans being exposed to pressure while in the pump, it swells up, but never had any blisters or other problems.

I guess the sleeve will never totally match water for lack of expansion, as it does have some give, but of course once the sleeve (and penis inside) expand to totally fill the tube (2.25” in my case) then there is no further expansion possible anyway.
Once this point is reached, I suppose the tunica can creep out slowly, but edema is reduced? I suppose if my girth gains continue, I just need to go up a size in tube, although my wife might need to call a halt before I get to this point.
I should mention an important point here too - I have recently started slowing down the pump motor so it takes a lot longer (30 -60 secs) to reach the peak of the cycle. I have found this to be very beneficial to reducing edema and increasing the feeling of internal pressure or ache.
I think the combination of slower depressure increase, which can be precisely controlled with the Mr Fantastic, along with the use of the sleeve, have helped give me a sudden boost in gains.
I find that if I tweak my methods to keep finding the “ache”, which goes hand-in-hand with greater expansion, then I can find new gains. Just need to make sure that edema doesn’t increase too.
It seems that longer time in the tube, with a slower tunica expansion, slower than edema build-up, is working for me. And the sleeve lets me achieve this without having to switch to water pumping.
If I was starting again though, I would definitely go for a water pump, although I do appreciate the relative ease of air pumping.

[pinstripeee]

>Austfred, I don’t have any problem with the glans being exposed to pressure while in the pump, it swells up, but never had any blisters or other problems.

Neither have I. The only blisters I have ever got were overdoing it with a vacextender some time ago. After that experience I do keep an eye on it to make sure it does not happen again.

What vacuum range are you using?

>I guess the sleeve will never totally match water for lack of expansion, as it does have some give, but of course once the sleeve (and penis inside) expand to totally fill the tube (2.25” in my case) then there is no further expansion possible anyway.
Once this point is reached, I suppose the tunica can creep out slowly, but edema is reduced? I suppose if my girth gains continue, I just need to go up a size in tube, although my wife might need to call a halt before I get to this point.
I should mention an important point here too - I have recently started slowing down the pump motor so it takes a lot longer (30 -60 secs) to reach the peak of the cycle. I have found this to be very beneficial to reducing edema and increasing the feeling of internal pressure or ache.

I do not see the sleeve as a substitute for water. Rather something to extend the use of both the air and water pumps. Can you give us some idea of your EG and the diameter of your cylinder. I pack my cylinder with and without the sleeve. My EG is currently about 5.5” but can be larger after a pump session. My water pump cyl is 54mm dia while the one I used with my air pump is 2”. I would not try to talk you into also buying a water pump as the Mr Fantastic air pump is a fine unit and it seems to working for you.

However I am keen to explore the possibilities of dynamic water pumping . This thread and Rootsnatty’s knowledge about stretching etc applied to this topic is of great interest.

>I think the combination of slower depressure increase, which can be precisely controlled with the Mr Fantastic, along with the use of the sleeve, have helped give me a sudden boost in gains.

Can you let us know how long your pump up and down cycles are?

The fact that you can go 60 mins with the air pump with the sleeve suggests I might be able to go more than 60 min with the water pump using the sleeve though other constraints may come into play. The feeling I get in my penis after an hour in the cyl with the pump using the sleeve is not unlike that I get after extending.

Another benefit of the sleeve is that it will alow me to continue with the wantsmore fulcrum stretches which otherwise were giving me serious edemas with the pump.

I seem to have hit a plateau after getting over 1.25” in BEPL gains and need to rethink my strategy but thats probably a post in another thread. Only to say thats wat motivated me to try the Wantsmores.

Regards
Austfred

Good discussion here - thanks to all!

The original topic of this thread “the physics of water pumping” - I think Rootsnatty has done a good job explaining the theory. This thread along with many others seems to strongly suggest, theoretically and anecdotally, that water pumping results in less edema, i.e. excess lymph fluid in the superficial tissue. I personally believe that edema is counterproductive to PE and EQ - so, less excess lymph fluid is a good thing.

Regarding “dynamic pumping” or “cyclic pumping” - the concept has been around for at least 10 years, I have been doing it for 5 years. I wish a new thread would spin off from the current thread as the topics are quite different.

@Austfred - just a thought: your “wantsmore stretches” (using golf weights) might be traumatizing the lymphatic vessels therefore preventing lymph fluid from leaving the penis - recall that the lymph system has no pump like the heart for blood vessels.

This is how I do dynamic pumping or pulse pumping maybe is a better name of it..

For instance, have a maximum pressure level in a session may be 5Hg. Then vary the pressure at this level every one minute, and gradually decrease the pressure level over 30 seconds period until it reaches zero. Quickly pump back up to the maximum level again.. repeat the process until the session is finished.

I start out my session with a sort of warmup 5-10 minutes at 3- 4Hg then i rest at zero for about a minute. Start my dynamic pumping session 10 minutes and jelqing the tube with some 20 seconds pumping stretches wich I throw in when I feel the rest of the session.

If someone is curious I felt to throw in my three stage pumping routine with lots of kegel variations of course.