Duke's new journey

I have been interested in PE since 2017 and have had good newbie gains back then over the course of a few months. These gains have mostly stuck with me and I want to be more serious about PE again, so I am starting the thread to document this new journey.

Today I did 7 sets of 3 minutes inverted V-stretches, aka the morning part of Memento’s rapid gain routine. My main focus right now is length, and I will be replacing the evening jelqs with some edging. My philosophy for this restart is to try and find the minimum effective dose of PE to get me back in gaining territory and so for now I am aiming for a good manual stretching session most days, and edging here and there. I am purposefully not doing any warmup or cooldown as I believe more in easing into the stretch and always staying below the pain threshold.

So it might seem that I have abandoned the new journey from my lack of posting. In truth, quite the contrary happened but I changed my approach completely. After reading up on the whole ‘hanging with FIRe’ approach that seems to be getting more and more popular, I decided to give it a go. In my case, the results so far are extremely encouraging. With a total of only 12 1-hour sessions spread from May 15 to today (June 15), I went from 6.56” to 6.92” BPSFL. I only measured BPEL once, a few days ago, and saw a .1cm increase. I am confident it will grow in the next few weeks/months as it seems that for most people it lags behind BPSFL but ends up catching up, or at least keeping up at some point. As long as BPSFL goes up, I won’t change anything except for taking decon breaks when I feel it’s necessary.

I started with really low weights, vacuum hanging with a heat pad, and have gradually upped them. My routine as of today is: heat on, 20min@1200g, 20min@1650g, heat off: 20min@2100g. I only measure pre session BPSFL and am currently at 5.4% cumulative strain for this cycle. I am going away in about 10 days, so it will be kind of a forced 1 week decon. Overall I am very excited about this method, props to everyone involved in developing it. I got exposed through 5.5squared’s Hanging with FIRe thread but I know there were a lot of other people involved in the early developments.

Aye duke! Keep it up. Glad to hear you are still pursuing your journey. Hope your change in routine helps out and produces much gains!!! Congrats my guy.

Slán

One thing to keep in mind is that I started this with basically a completely de-conditioned unit. My last serious PE endeavours were in Summer/Fall 2017, and apart from a few weeks of manual stretching in Summer 2020 I have completely stopped it. The main reasons were the time and effort required for manual PE, which is the only form that had given me good newbie gains. I also disliked the inability to measure applied forces etc. We’ll see what the future holds for my unit, but I have great hopes for now. In terms of precise goals, if I ever reach 8” NPBEL I would consider that to be the upper bound for length. I would probably then switch to girth work and try to maximize volume gains. To me, the idea of getting to have ‘twice as much cock as I started with’ (in terms of volume) is a big turn on. That would be years from now though.

I will try to report here twice per month, so next time around July 1st.

I have trouble believing my eyes/the ruler and tape today. Since I upped the weights a bit I have put in 4 1-hour sessions and my unit has been feeling especially full, long and heavy, and my girlfriend has confirmed this in bed the last few days. My goal is to only take erect measurements twice a month since I do not want to obsess over infinitesimal increments, but I could not resist. The results are: I have gained 1/8” MEG and 3/16” BPEL since the start of this new journey. The effort put in is so minimal, it feels like cheating. I work from home so I just get my workout in while at work, the time investment is basically just the taping and setup which take maybe 5 minutes, and the untaping in the shower which is maybe 2 minutes.

To summarize, in a total of 14 1-hour sessions of vacuum hanging with low weights and an infrared heating pad, spread over 33 days:
BPEL: 6.50” -> 6.68”
BPSFL: 6.56” -> 6.96”
MEG: 5” -> 5.13”
The girth was a nice surprise, but consistent with my past experience in gaining girth without really trying. It seems that’s the way my unit responds to chronic mechanical stress. I am really curious to see what would happen if I were to focus on girth, but that will come once I am satisfied with my length gains, as per Bib’s and other old-school members’ advice to “stretch a thinner rubber band before making it thicker” (my rephrasing from what I remember).

I will try my best to discipline myself and not measure again until July 1st, but it will be hard. I always knew PE was very real, thanks to this forum and the newbie gains I made in 2017, but I have never been as excited about it as I am now. It really does seem that I have found my minimum effective dose, and I cannot wait to see what’s in store for the future.

As for pictures, I do have a before picture from 2017 with a graduated cardboard roll that I still have lying around. I figure if (or rather when, I believe it’s just a question of time) I get to 7 1/2” BPEL I will take a new picture and post both in celebration of 1” gain since the stop of newbie gains (which I suspect 75% were cause by EQ gains and measuring closer to max expansion).

So today I hit 8% strain on pre-BPSFL measurement. I decided to do my hanging session as planned, and to be honest I am still unsure whether to believe the decon club or not. For instance, Bib seemed to be in the opposite camp and still gained close to 4 inches in length if my memory is any good. Still, I have a very stressful month and a half ahead in terms of work, then some vacation after which I will start a new job in a new city, living by myself. I figure I might give decon a try and be on the safe side regarding the prevention of a ‘steel cord’ situation. I also feel like these past few days my tunica is more rigid and elongation takes longer to happen during the session. I also have to admit that I have to dig more into where this 8% comes from.

So the plan for now is: at least 2 weeks of no PE at all other than edging (if it can even be considered PE; it’s just something I enjoy a lot and do for stamina purposes). Then I am unsure if I will throw a session here and there just to see what happens, and will also be away for a week here and there.

The real experiment will start early September when I get to my new place. I plan on starting another cycle then, and if things go only half as fast as this past cycle I will be a very happy man. So overall for this cycle:

BPEL: 6.50” -> 6.72”
BPSFL: 6.56” -> 7.11”
MEG: 5” -> 5.13”

I did end up measuring BPEL today, again I could not resist. I cannot believe the gains in BPSFL translated so fast to BPEL. It’s almost 1/4” gained from May 15th to June 21st, in a total of 18 sessions. I did bump the time to 80 minutes in the last four, and went up one more pound in weight: heat on, 20min@1200g, 20min@1650g, 20min@2100g, heat off: 20min@2550g. I fell like this is really the sweet spot for me, no pain at all but a clear ‘fatigue’ feeling that accumulates and very significant, gradual elongation throughout the session.

Let’s be pessimistic and assume the gains will halve with every successive cycle. Let’s also assume a 4 week cycle followed by 6 weeks of decon, for a total of 10 weeks. So, 5 cycles a year. Let’s also assume that BPSFL gains are halved every cycle.

Year 1:
Cycle 1: 0.55
Cycle 2: 0.28
Cycle 3: 0.14
Cycle 4: 0.07
Cycle 5: 0.04
Total: 1.08”

From year 2, the gains would be insignificant under that scenario. I would mean I have 0.5” BPSFL left to gain, and about a year to gain it. Let’s now assume a more optimistic scenario where each cycle brings 80% of the last cycle’s gains.

Year 1:
Cycle 1: 0.55
Cycle 2: 0.44
Cycle 3: 0.35
Cycle 4: 0.28
Cycle 5: 0.23
Total: 1.85”

Year 2:
Cycle 1: 0.18
Cycle 2: 0.14
Cycle 3: 0.11
Cycle 4: 0.09
Cycle 5: 0.07
Total: 0.59”

Year 3 would bring 0.17” additional BPSFL, then it would become pretty insignificant. So under that scenario, the total BPSFL gain from the new journey’s beginning would be 2.44”, bringing it to 8.94”. I bet if you have read this so far, you are probably wondering what I am doing computing fictional gains from invented scenarios. Well, I like computing things and I like having an idea of what is possible. Let the future tell if one of these scenarios had any merit!

As for this thread, I will probably be back in a few weeks with updates on the decon, and BPEL measurements. If not, you can expect me to be active again around next September!

Back to report on the decon break so far. So the first few days, my EQ was quite bad and it was surprising because as long as I was getting sessions in it was not really suffering. This led me to conclude that the break was indeed the good decision.

Second, I read more of Kyrpa’s material, and I found that my experience reflected almost perfectly his theories about collagen remodelling and the time we can train before the gains start to stall (he suggests 2-3 months max for the active time, with most of the easy gains happening in the first month).

I am happy to report that EQ has bounced back to normal, very good levels. I will continue with the decon break until around September, will not put another session in.

I will be back to report on BPEL and BPSFL when I get home and can measure them. Overall I really feel the gains are sticking around, my flaccid is much fuller and I even feel that my balls are hanging fuller and lower (which would be due to lig gains, akin to what Bib reported).

I really want to thank everyone who contributed to this new philosophy of vacuum hanging with heat, I feel it is a real breakthrough in the world of PE. I am very excited for the years to come (yes years, I want to take it as slow as possible).

Lastly, I wanted to state my new long-term goal, in the sake of my future self reading this thread in a few years: after some volume calculation, my absolute beginning volume was 186mL. I am now at 231mL, or a 24% increase. Since I am a huge nerd and like metric units and round numbers, a half-liter dick sounds really appealing to me. BPEL 9” x MEG 6.55” would get me there at 503mL. Sounds good to me because I figure, the old-school goal for most of the PE old-timers was the ‘8x6 dream’. I just made the dream a tad bigger to account for the new and improved methods :) And I do realize it is an increase of more than 100% from where I stand. Like I mentioned, I am in no hurry. Good things come to those who wait.

Just wanted to report back on BPEL, I got some unexpected privacy today and found a good ruler (am not home). With full erection, I measured in precisely at 6.75”. So even though I did nothing in the last 7 days, I actually gained a bit (last measure was 6.72”). At this point I guess nothing needs to be proven anymore regarding this protocol, but still, it goes to show that as long as BPSFL goes up, BPEL will follow sooner or later. In my case I believe the break leading to better EQ is behind the tiny gain I registered. I did not measure MEG, waiting to use the same tape I always do.

Funny how back in 2017-2018, I had a period where I was doubting if my newbie gains were real at all. I remember thinking, “maybe I just learned to really get to 100% expansion before measuring”. I also remember telling myself that if I ever got to 6 3/4” BPEL, I could be sure beyond a doubt some real growth would have happened. Well folks, this day is here, and for me it feels like the start of a great journey.

Checking in to report back on the decon, as it has been 4 weeks. First, let me say I am now completely converted to the “decon breaks are mandatory” camp. The last few days my EQ has been superb and it made me realize that it did take a pretty good hit at the end of my first cycle. I believe that I made the classic “too much too fast” mistake, even with this low and slow approach. So for cycle 2, which will only start in September, I will restrict myself to 5 1-hour sessions a week maximum, probably split 3-on 1-off 2-on 1-off. I will also cut back the time to precisely one hour and maybe cut the weight a little too, we’ll see.

Now for the good news. So at some point I was doubting that my 6.75” BPEL measurement had any merit, thinking I might have just changed my viewing angle a bit. I measured a few times with sub-optimal EQ, got variable results. Now that EQ is back to normal and even better-than-normal levels, I can confidently report that 6.75” BPEL has been achieved without a doubt. Moreover, and this is the real surprise, MEG has crept up to 5.25” for the first time since I started monitoring it. My unit did feel much fuller in my hand these past weeks, and the measurement confirms it. This represents a volumetric gain of more than an ounce for this first cycle, which truly amazes me. I did take some pictures for comparison with where I was in 2018 and might end up posting them in the future.

The other thing I want to touch on is that after some more reading, it seems there is a biological justification for the 8% total strain for a cycle. Since I am not bothering with post-session measurements, I think I might have overdone it a bit by going to 8% pre-session strain. In theory the sessions should induce around 2-3% strain, so I think I will stop the next cycle at 6% pre-session BPSFL total strain, or maybe 6% from the ending BPSFL of cycle 1. Right now I seem to have lost around 4mm BPSFL, which I deem completely normal and even desirable, as it seems the “healing” of the micro-injuries has resulted in more girth. But I also believe I will gain these 4mm back very fast when I start hanging again. Another reason I believe I have gone a bit too far too fast in the first cycle is that I noticed a tiny loss in sensitivity during the first 2-3 weeks of decon. There was also one instance where after edging for about 30 minutes, I started to feel very slight tingles in my unit. I believe these are indicators of nerve tissue being stressed close to its limit. Everything is back in order now, and I may even have gained sensitivity - my GF seems to be able to make me cum faster. However, it might also be that I am just turned on by this additional ounce of meat between my legs.

Last thing I want to mention, is that I have developed a kind of automated jelqing system using a pumping cylinder and an automatic blowjob machine. I developed this about two years back, after adapting the machine to work with a pocket pussy type masturbator - one day I might make a big post about this as it has done wonders for my stamina and is just overall the greatest sensory experience I have ever felt with my dick. However, for now let me just say that the machine works as a cyclic pump with some kind of “air vibrations”, fluctuations in the pressure designed to feel good. When connected to
A pump cylinder, it will suck blood in and release it in short cycles, in a manner very similar to jelqing. I tend to just throw a 5-minute session here and there, as it is very intense. It seems to work the internals very good and in my case leads to better EQ about 1-2 days after the session.

So to sum up, the decon break is doing wonders, my unit did grow significantly as a result of this first cycle, EQ is back to rock hard levels, and I cannot wait to start cycle 2 in September. Cheers!

When you find some round tuits, I’d sure like to see some feelhy peekchurs of that.

Hey Slan, sorry for not replying earlier! Pretty busy these days and your message went under the radar. Thanks for the kind words, which seem to have been prophetic because the change did produce a lot of gains ;)

Sure thing! It’s been part of my todo list for a while to do a write-up on that contraption of mine. This forum has truly been a great source of inspiration in my life even though I was just lurking for over 5 years now. I want to give back to the community someday and I feel this is something I can contribute, as it has helped me tremendously with stamina. Never really had premature ejaculation problems, but let’s just say my gf likes my new and improved abilities.. To me there are 4 main qualities (perceivable by female genitalia, or any receptive partner for that matter) that most of us want to develop for our units: length, girth, EQ and stamina. And to those of you that are struggling with stamina, I believe I have a great solution, which I have applied to myself with results that went beyond my wildest dreams. However, I am incredibly busy these days and I do not have time to outline everything. I want to do a good job at explaining this technique so that people can apply it and see results for themselves. Also, I believe it should go in a separate thread and I do not believe I have the right to start that yet, since I am still considered a new member. When I do get the time though, you will have pictures and everything.

Cheers to both of you,

Duke

September here, I am settled in a new city, new job, living alone and plenty of time to myself (job situation is temporary, GF stayed home).

I also had plenty of time to read up, and was particularly interested in Tutt’s theories and how fdersby88 has validated that waiting longer between sessions can be beneficial, maybe even eliminating the need for decon altogether (I believe in his most recent posts he was at something like 9-11 days between treatments). I do not have the budget (mostly time budget) to build a micrometer contraption, and I am not inclined to use ultrasound.

Another observation to consider: I went back to my log from Cycle 1, and realized that at the end I was basically putting in a session almost everyday, and gained as much as 7mm BPSFL during a single week. In retrospect, this feels pretty reckless and I totally understand why I had a few issues with EQ and some "tingling" sensations when edging which could point to some very slight nerve damage having happened. Also, I feel that at 80 minutes long, my sessions could lead to hindered blood flow to the glans, which is also not good.

Finally, I asked myself, what is the minimal length gain rate I would be willing to take, and at what time investment. The answer to that question is: probably 1 mm per month, with no less than 10 hours/mm. After that point, I would just be happy with the length I gained, switch to girth, gain what I can, and then "retire" from PE and just do maintenance exercises for the sake of EQ. This means that I was gaining at 30X what I would consider "good gains" at the end of that first cycle! Here is my revised routine:

1 40min session with heat pad a week: heat on, 10min@2pounds, 10min@3pounds, 10min@4pounds, heat off, 10min@5pounds. For now the session is on Sunday, and I measure BPSFL once a week, before the session. I will not measure BPEL for a while.

I will add an additional session per week if my BPSFL stalls for 4 consecutive weeks. I will add more if I stall again, until I get to 4 sessions/week. At that point, depending on the total gains, I would either take a decon, or up the weight slightly. I expect that point to be in the distant future with pretty significant gains, and if that is the case I will go with the decon.

I put in a session last week, and this week measured a 1mm gain from it. This has been pretty routine for me on the first cycle, getting a 1mm gain per session even when doing one every day. I am currently doing session #2 as I write this, so far everything feels just right.

Another thing I should mention, is that I have re-incorporated a weekly 24h+ fast in my weekly routine, which I perform on Sundays. I basically eat dinner on Saturday, then breakfast on Monday. This has benefits in many areas, including metabolic fitness, fat loss, longevity, but also tissue healing. For those interested, see this study, particularly the burn healing enhancement on healthy mice (disregard results on diabetic mice): Fasting before or after wound injury accelerates wound healing through the activation of pro-angiogenic SMOC1 and SCG2
While the impact might be small, I have a good feeling about the combination of fasting + "hanging with FIRe". We’ll see!

As for stats, here they are:
Metric Cycle 1 start Cycle 1 end Cycle 2 start
BPSFL 6.56" 7.11" 6.84"
BPEL 6.5" 6.72" 6.72"
MEG 5" 5.125" 5.125"

If you go through my stats, you will see that I measured up to 5.25" MEG and 6.78" BPEL at some point. I believe this was due to supraphysiological EQ caused by the healing process from Cycle 1. What strikes me is that I have lost a good chunk of the BPSFL gains, but almost none of the BPEL gains. That is consistent with my past experience with manual stretching. Excited to see where this takes me!

Just a quick update. I am still doing the weekly sessions, and so far am seeing excellent progress. I am currently at my all-time high for BPEL at 6.88”. So in 6 40 to 50 minute treatments, spread over 6 weeks, I have gained 0.16”. That’s a win in my book.

I feel that the 1 on 6 off schedule really allows for almost complete healing between treatments. Don’t feel like I will need frequent decons (probably will throw some in for good measure, like once or twice a year). I guess the big question would be, are these still newbie gains? Future will tell.

Also, of you look at my stats, you’ll see that my “newbie messing around” is in 2021. In reality it happened in 2017 but I changed the dates to keep the data but see the recent progress better. I add one measure each week: the BPSFL that I take 24-hour before the treatment, and either no change in BPEL/MEG or an update if I felt like measuring that week.

Some observations: the “gap” between BPSFL and BPEL is not widening. I take it as a good sign that sufficient time is allowed for healing. Interesting fact: I tried taking BPSFL 1-2 days after a treatment and sometimes saw no increase/decrease. It always bounced back up by the time for the official measurements. To me, this is further proof that this technique works: there is an initial “stress reaction” that causes tightening of some tissues (probably ligs). Stretching again in that state would probably lead to further stiffening, which is unwanted.

Final observation: my balls are hanging lower/fuller. Don’t know how to explain that, but I’ll take it.

As for pictures, I stand by what I wrote earlier: when/if I get to 7.5” BPEL, I will post some before/after. Stay tuned! Could happen around March/April if I can maintain my rate of growth.

I have modified my protocol slightly since the past month or so, as a result of various observations. The first is that as I upped the session length to 1 hour (what I was doing during my first cycle), I started noticing again that my glans/frenulum area gets very cold at the end of the session. In fact, it was the same during the first cycle, but since no one on the forum seemed worried about vac hanging reducing circulation I convinced myself it was not an issue.

I now completely disagree with the “vac hanging does not hinder blood flow” mentality. In fact, I am actually concerned about the recent increase in popularity of vac hanging and the number of people probably chronically exposing their glans (and whole dick really) to low oxygen levels. I did ask scienceguy about it in his progress thread and he replied that he never was concerned about the slightly cold glans he gets, and that he never got significant discoloration. In my experience, I do get slight discoloration, though it is true that it is nothing extreme. However, what I am concerned with is nerve endings. Even a slight lack of oxygen can affect neurons, as evidenced for example by the constant tiredness people with sleep apnea get. Also, as written in another post here, I experienced both sensitivity and EQ issues at the end of my first cycle, which persisted for a month or so. I now believe they were caused by the chronic oxygen deprivation I was imposing daily on my dick.

The fix is simple enough, and has been known for decades in the case of compression hanging: divide your hanging in sets. Initially I did 3 sets of 20 minutes, still at a single session per week. However my gains almost stopped. But, many of the “side effects” like lower EQ or slight sensitivity loss also disappeared. I think this may be because with the “low and slow” approach, continuous hanging time is important. So I split the sessions in 2 sets of 30 minutes, and I also decided to do more at 4 sessions per week. The reason for that being that I will be traveling for a month and a half starting next week, so it will be a “forced decon” of sorts. It also allowed me to test whether the same symptoms as during cycle 1 would reappear as the volume increased.

I am glad to report that I seem to have found the optimal regime for myself. I started gaining around 2mm per week with the 4 split sessions, and experienced no diminished EQ (higher EQ if anything). This is how I split the session:

Set 1: heat off: 5min@1pound, heat on: 5min@2pounds, 5min@3pounds, 5min@4pounds, 10min@5pounds
Break: remove vac cup (but keep the tape), “jelq” some fresh blood in glans area, wrap heating pad for 5 minutes.
Set 2: heat on: 30sec@1pound, 30sec@2pounds, 5min@3pounds, 5min@4pounds, 10min@5pounds, heat off: 10min@6pounds

At the end of Set 2, I really feel some fatigue in my ligs and also tunica to some extent, but nothing painful or intense.

I recently broke the 7” BPEL mark, and actually just measured in at 7.07”. My BPSFL is at 7.31”. If you look at my stats, you will see that I added measurements every week with the exception of a 3-week hiatus. I did not get any sessions in during those 3 weeks because I did not have the time (and was worried about the coldness/circulation issue).

I am getting closer to the 7.5” BPEL mark after which I promised before/after pictures. I expect I should reach it before Spring 2023, but I am in no hurry. I am very glad to have found a routine that is easy to follow and is giving me consistent, safe gains. Never forget that your dick is probably your favorite organ if you are here at Thunder’s, so treat it with care (I like my brain too but tend to prefer the dick).

On last thing: I think BPEL is a flawed measurement, which is why I track it irregularly and take it with a grain of salt. To make it more consistent I started stretching my dick a little when I take it so that I make it touch the ruler (eliminating much of the “viewing angle” variability). I started doing this around the time I first measured 6.9” BPEL, so that initial jump from 6.8 to 6.9 is probably just the change in measurement. Also, I dislike the fact that BPEL does not take the fat pad in account, while a pussy certainly does. So I ordered myself a transparent Fleshlight and devised a new metric: PPPEL or pocket pussy pressed erect length. What I do is I setup my phone flat on an object that is just the right height, set the Fleshlight flat on a table’s edge and film myself thrusting in and out and pushing to the deepest I can while edging. I figure I will do one of these for every inch or half inch of BPSFL I gain, and view them as the ultimate test of “usable length gains”. It takes care of most problems associated with BPEL measurements: peak arousal can be maintained easily, viewing angle cannot be cheated as long as the same filming setup is used every time, and all variables relevant to a woman’s anatomy are considered in the final measurement. I am currently at 5 5/8” PPPEL. Yes, I have quite a bit of fat pad that I’m working on eliminating :) .

Quick update: I have changed goals for this new year. I had noticed that while peak EQ had always been good, I was getting less night wood and my dick was softer at lower arousal levels than it usually is. I started to hypothesize that this was due to lengthening of ligs which caused a weakening of my PC muscles. Moreover, I remembered that I had dabbled in weighted kegels for a bit at the start of my PE journey some years ago, and had gotten a big EQ boost out of that. So I stopped all length training temporarily, and did these weighted kegels almost every day in the morning, along with around 3-4 short pumping sessions at 4” Hg per week.

It seems that weighted kegels are not very popular, however I believe everyone should incorporate them. Just get to 90%+ erection, suspend a lowish weight (4-8 ounces at first) to a thick rope with a comfortable noose, suspend behind the corona and kegel away. Aim for sets of 10-20 reps, and do 3-5 seconds holds at the end of the set until PC muscles are thoroughly tired. Resume edging, repeat for 3-5 sets, and voilà.

I am glad to say that after 4-6 weeks of that routine, not only is EQ at an all-time high but I have been able to achieve true “dry orgasms” with my newfound PC strength. I had always been skeptical of this but it is true after all. Still, I barely have the necessary strength to achieve it despite intensive training and a naturally high overall muscle strength, so no wonder a lot of people can never get to that point.

I will keep on this routine, probably indefinitely, as I really enjoy the better EQ (and the multiorgasmic capabilities, of course). Will probably try again for some length (hanging) after another 4-6 weeks of this “pure EQ” training. Will get reunited with the gf soon, looking forward to her reaction.