Finding xeno: a penis tale

I agree…conditioning and strengthening probably doesn’t very much, HOWEVER overtraining seems to toughen the tissue quite a bit.

Once toughening sets in…gains grind to a halt.

If that’s true, and we have an easy and cheap way to measure that toughening…it MAY be a valuable tool in long term pe gains.

This might be another dead end…but I think its worth at least discussing and possibly trying.

Xeno…where the heck are you man?

OK, now that I’ve read through it, several times…a few comments.

1) F-in BRILLIANT!!! Truly my hats off to you, break-though stuff!

2) The proof…as always are in the results…and it seems you are achieving the “Holy Grail” of PE…sustained growth.

3) It also explains to me, what I have already believed…that Monty is doing something very right.

4) As far as being under appreciated…dude, anytime ANYONE comes up with a new concept, the further off the conceptual “beaten trail” it is…the longer it takes for others to take notice and come around…don’t take it personally.

Plus, this is really technical stuff…it is embarrassing for most people to admit they don’t understand an f-in thing you said.

Rather than say that, they will just move on to some approach they can understand…if you don’t understand that, you will totally misunderstand the reaction and take it as rejection.

Continue to post your consistent gains…and people with take notice. Why did you and a lot of us sit up and take notice so quickly with Aristocane?

RESULTS…and dramatic ones at that.

If you had never posted at all, and your first post showed a before picture of 5 in bpel and then a 2 year post picture of 9 in bpel…don’t you think you’d be the INSTANT hot topic of exam on Thunder’s…of course!

I think I have a real gem of a thread with the PI’s…did that mean people were all over it…hell no! Its a slow steady process to shift consciousness of a group…until it hits a type of critical mass when the idea just explodes into the group think.

So, I’m saying this so you don’t become one of those sensitive, “I’m not appreciated here, so I’m leaving” type of guys I see pop up every so often.

(I think guys like Avocet, Monty, Peforeal and others are TOTALLY underappreciated…but they just keep helping in their modest way…these are the type of people that makes Thunders truly different and great. Not to mention Thunder himself that really doesn’t need this headache…but does it for all US poor slobs who either want or need it.)

If you really care about us…put your ego aside and just be patient with us knuckleheads and give us time to begin to comprehend and implement.

Then your real work will begin in trying to keep everyone from misunderstanding the concept…doing it wrong…getting no results…THEN DISCREDITING THE PROCESS!!! Oh yeah…thats coming too!

(if you’re fortunate, by then you will have some intelligent advocates that will role up their sleeves and pitch in the education and correction process)

Trust me, it takes unselfish love to put up with the abuse you WILL get when trying to help others. (its the Jesus syndrome, many of those you try to help will end up crucifying you…but if you go through it with love…you are resurrected into a better you.)

If you stick with it,for the right reasons (to help those that really need help) it will make you a better person.

5) If you ever hope for the masses to get this…you have to take out the lingo as best you can and make it more easy to understand and do.

Pretend you are explaining it to your 18 yo old nephew with a 3 in ebp length. You really feel bad for him and want to help, so you go the extra mile to make it do-able for him…get it?

Thats pretty much it for now, let me reiterate in case you’ve misunderstood my tone and intent.

I think this is the most advanced and on track concept I have seen to date…its like the E=MC2 of pe (in my opinion).

The comments I have made are in the spirit of advancement of this concept and you as a member of this community.

I think Thunders is the right place with the right reason for being. That does not mean that it will be easy or quick…just wanted to help you get the right mind set for the job ahead.

Thanks,
Sparkyx

ps post your methodology ( once you’ve figured out how to put it in layman’s terms) in the main members forum as a new thread…if you hadn’t pointed this out to me… I never would have seen it.

I don’t ever come to this section of the woods! :)

Since I’m here talking to my self…and too impatient to wait for someone to show up…how about this:

Do the micro cycles while charting growth, force and tissue stiffness.

I would be very interested to see the relationship between growth slowdown and tissue stiffness.

Lets just say there is a direct relationship between tissue stiffness and growth slowdown (of course I’m way ahead of myself here, but I’m bored and no one wants to play…so as usually I’ll play with myself…wait, that didn’t sound right) I would then be interested to see if less force/time might allow similar gains with a much slower onset of tissue stiffening…or avoid it completely.

I keep thinking about the low force advocates that have had excellent steady gains for prolonged periods of time, with no injuries or loss of function.

Even they seem to eventually slow down (maybe they go into maintenance)…so what I’m thinking if we could find the ideal force/time that allows the greatest sustained growth….then perhaps the deconditioning phase would also be shorter because of it.

To be able to nail the correct amount of stimulation, mild stim (proliferation phase)and decon would greatly enhance the IPR approaches efficiency.

Xeno has already pointed out that the last 25% of stimulation (growth?) is very costly in terms of recoverly time and start up point.

I think that he may find something very similar with the force/time in the Irritation phase.

Small decreases may greatly prolong the effectiveness of the cycles before deconditioning is needed, or in mico cycles…allow for less rest time…or increase the time the tissue grows, and allows you to return to the irritation phase much quicker.

Over and over I have heard the great gainers talk about daily mild stimulation that enhances function, tends to be better than less frequent more intense force/time.

Like I said before, it could well be that even this approach will need an occasional decon break as tissue conditioning sets in.

I can almost guarentee the break needed for mild daily stimulation will be MUCH less than heavy forces! And as Xeno has found, you will start back in much more effectively with less force (did I read that correctly Xeno?).

Take Monty for example…he takes frequent unintentional breaks because his work schedule forces him into it. I think that is one of the reasons that only now is he up to the “tremendous” wt of 15-17 lbs and STILL MAKING GAINS!

And thats after “working up” to that wt. He had great gains with much less for long periods of time.

Coincidence…anomaly? I don’t think so.

If it turns out tissue stiffness is a critical factor, then it could be used to help determine optimum force/time and layoff time.

The real trick to a huge dick is to stay right in the zone, and know when you are drifting out of it, so you need miminum layoff time and to determine the closest to ideal forces to minimize tissue stiffening.

I just on a gut level think the microcycle concept would ultimately be best, but you really need to determine optimum stress to rest. Then who knows what the growth potential might be…and in what time frame.

Heres to a 9X7 in a year or less…woooo-whooooo!

(this is my day off…I have WAY TOO MUCH time on my hands!)

Dude…don’t drop a concept like this on me and not be around when my brain catches on fire!

Next time wait until you are around…this is cruel!

I seem to remember about heat accelerating the proliferation phase?

It seems absence of heat would help in the tissue irritation, but probably accelerate the proliferation phase…and what about the rest phase? Heat…no heat?

If heat greatly speeds proliferation, how much? One degree…ten…twenty and for how long?

You know I think Modesto is WAY up on this topic if you don’t have that info (I’m sure you do though).

Anyway, I love the concept…make a lot of sense in terms of what I already know to be true, I am already adding this to my understanding of how to make this stuff work better!

Lets see if I can push my posts to 2,000 today… on this one thread…all by myself!

I’m going to lunch…mummble…tired of talking to myself…..mummble mumble….mumble…:bigwink:

Did I say 9X7 in less that a year? Make that 10X8 in 6 months!

:woot2:

Sparkyx,

MX and Shiver are also good references for this stuff. I don’t pretend to understand all of the mathematical concepts that Xeno has presented, but I will eventually. Xeno and I exchanged some emails about this post earlier, so I do understand the basics, but he’s taken his ideas to a new level by introducing mathematical concepts I hadn’t heard about before.

As to not being appreciated, I must apologize to you for not appreciating your PI thread when it first broke. I was firmly in the “plastic deformation” camp, following in Bib’s example. I thought that PI’s couldn’t be important because growth was all about increasing the weight to the point that the tissues would yield. Hogwash! Now, I’m a believer in PI’s and in IPR theory.

My own personal experience with new ideas was the response (or lack thereof) I received after releasing the LOT Simulator and subsequent “Testing LOT Theory” threads. They each represented a ton of work, yet very few people posted on the threads. I felt like a loser for having spent so much time on something that seemed to go over like a fart in church.

I might be able to lend a hand translating Xeno’s ideas into simpler terms, but not right now. Feel free to continue the discussion with yourself. I’ll be back to join you as soon as I can get free.

>>>My own personal experience with new ideas was the response (or lack thereof) I received after releasing the LOT Simulator and subsequent “Testing LOT Theory” threads. They each represented a ton of work, yet very few people posted on the threads. I felt like a loser for having spent so much time on something that seemed to go over like a fart in church.

Ahh, but the standard response now, to newbs asking about LOT, is “don’t worry about it — it’s probably nothing meaningful and consequential.” :) Your LOT thread has quietly had great impact.

I really look forward to continued discussion of Xeno’s ideas among the penis engineers. I understood little of the math Xeno wrote about but would be very excited if y’all experts came eventually to a near-consensus about the principles governing penis enlargement.

I have no problem being “unappreciated”! I have learned to ACT from my heart and not be attached to the RE-ACTIONS…it allows me to be happy most of the time!

I figured out that unconditional love is the best because no one can “ruin” your party!

You do things because they are right…and it makes you happy to do them. Whether people are grateful or ungrateful effects their inner state, and is totally THEIR business, not mine. Its a concept that actually works really well.

I brought it up because I want Xeno to stick around here, and the only way to be able to break new ground and not have a bad experience is to do it for the right reasons and not be concerned with the reactions…by the way your LOT thread IS brilliant…a belated thanks myself!

I mentioned you in the context that I seem to remember you being really informed on ligamentous inflammation and proliferation phase and such…

thanks for the reply, much appreciated!

Damn good point…I know it confirmed what I had been suspecting myself.

I’d like to see someone get rid of the “inner penis” bullcrap too!
:xtop:

I’m gonna stop now before I hijack this important thread!

Hey,

All four of you guys are appreciated, very much! And MM, what PG said about your thread is true.

Sorry for my absence. I’ll get back to this thread when I can, that’ll probably be early next week.

Let me set something straight now though. I don’t feel under-appreciated, that would require much more of an ego than I posses.

What I do feel is underutilized.

What size is the font in that hint?

Thanks, Boss. And thanks PG. I’ll eventually stop whining.

I think Xeno is on the right track here. If I understand him properly, the basic starting point is that the body is not passive. When you pull on your penis, it may yield initially and even reinforce the effect of stress by growing. But eventually the body learns to resist.

Growth in response to stress is viewed as positive feedback. Pull it and it grows in the direction of stress. Conditioning in response to stress is viewed as negative feedback. Pull it and it resists growth in the direction of stress by gaining strength.

It’s really an extension of the “length versus strength” idea, which has been kicking around here for some time.

The point of novelty here, if I understand it correctly, is to recognize the importance of the proliferation phase of the IPR cycle. The body responds to any injury to the connective tissues by undergoing the processes of inflammation, proliferation, and remodeling. Many of us have put a lot of thought into the desirability of inflammation (what I think Bib meant by “fatigue”) and remodeling (maintaining light tension for long periods of time to reshape the tissues). One is represented by heavy hanging, whereas the other is represented by the use of stretchers or ADS.

Xeno has added to these a much needed “missing link.” This link is proliferation, the “P” in IPR threory. Proliferation is literally the process whereby the cells in the connective tissues respond to inflammation by making new meat. Specifically, they secrete collagen and other materials into the intracellular space. What happens next can determine whether you gain or merely build a “dick of steel.”

Once the new collagen is out of the cells, it attempts to integrate itself into the existing matrix of connective tissue. Xeno is proposing, I believe, that this is a critical time in which to apply light tension. Tension needs to be light to avoid more inflammation, which he asserts can excessively toughen the tissues. But it needs to be present in sufficient quantity to hold the penis in an extended state. The purpose of this is to allow the newly created collagen to integrate into an extended, rather than contacted, shaft. The idea, I believe, is that the collagen integrated into an extended shaft is less resistant to futher growth than collagen integrated into a contracted shaft.

Inflammation starts the factory’s motor. Proliferation makes the new meat. Remodeling makes the changes permanent.

I think that’s the general idea, although Xeno has provided many more specific ideas of interest.

A further point is recognizing the interplay between the positive feedback loop and the negative feedback loop. They work at different times and at different speeds. This is why timing is so critical.