Gain .5 inch/month with no excersizes

Southpaw,

That’s a very informative response. As I’ve seen repeatedly elsewhere in this thread, you obviously know your business well. I’ll go into my son’s next urologist appointment in a few weeks with a better understanding of what she’s trying to do. I may ask about switching to a different gulcocorticoid, but I think our earlier failure might be a result of our not applying it correctly and not having him try to move his foreskin back and forth over his glans enough. Apparently he actually needs to stretch the skin some for the cream to work.

Oh, and now I see your other post. No, skin is not my limiting factor. It seems to be streching just fine as I grow, without stetchmarks, so I’ll spare myself any gluco-enduced cosmetic enhancements.

Anyway, thanks very much. I hope you know of some good drugs for that headache. :) (Reminds me I need to take a trip up to Vancouver for some T2s.)

“This is not a game, Jones. Your suggestion in a post at another site you frequent that guys who try this are “rats” demeans us all. “

avocet8

Stop playing games. I am a lab rat. I seem to recall a post in the main member forum titled, “lab rats”. I don’t remember anyone else saying they were demeaned, probably because I stated this was an experiment on day 1.

Southpaw

I am not surprised. Many doctors hold this antiquated notion that testosterone is the most important androgen. Androgen science has changed rapidly very recently. The truth is, testosterone is a pro-hormone. Its slight activity compares nothing to DHT.

“You pontificate as if there is no material difference between free base testosterone and DHT” I believe anyone who has read my posts would not understand your statement.

Southpaw, you claim to be a doctor, so I have a medical question for you. Let us say, the normal number of T molecules is 25, and the normal number of DHT molecules is 5. Let us prescribe scores to each molecule, so that we sum the body’s total amount of receptor activity. Knowing that DHT binds six times better then T, we give it a score of 6. T gets a score of 1. So our total androgen power ((25*1) + (5 *6 )) is 55.

Ok. Now lets use androgel and add 10 molecules of T. Leaving a 35:7 ratio of T to DHT (as you said before, southpaw, some T gets converted). So how many times do our androgen receptors get activated? ((35*1) + (7*6)) The answer is 77. Ok, so T replacement activates 77 receptors.

Ok, instead of using androgel, let us use a DHT cream. Let us use 1 DHT molecules. It represents 20 percent in our model. We are not applying anything nearly this concentrated to our penises though. Ok, the change in DHT is simply addition, because 5AR is a one way street. Intially, 25:5, now ((25*1)+((5+1)*6)) or 61.

What have we learned? Using testosterone gave us a score of 77, while a small amount of DHT gave us a score of 61. While my numbers are not exactly in direct ratio with the human body, this proves that small amounts of DHT act on the body in the same manner high doses of T can. DHT simply has a stigma, that is all. We know now that it is not the enemy. In Europe, DHT creams are used as ED treatments. Why? Because as I have illustrated, since T and DHT simply do the same thing at different rates, if you adjust the dose, similar results can be achieved.

But doesn’t DHT have a receptor somewhere in you body that triggers something bad? No. DHT does everything testosterone can do-except turn into estrogen.

We have ventured away from does it work to DHT is a killer. Dht isnt the enemy and it plays a very important role in the human body. This is more than clear in the literature that I read. So back to the subject.

I would like Southpaw to show me some evidence that it wont work. I am sure if he was to do that, then we all would just stop. All are welcome to try to prove that it will not work. Even post your personal theories on why this isnt possible.

I will add that we are using 4-androstenediol and not DHT. So this conversation is irrelevant.

Shiver,

Hey man, I saw from your previous post that you have chatted with Dr. Reicher. Are you more familiar with his routine other than what was previously posted - every other day and some PE? Specifically, did he have sex or jack off any during the usage of androgel? I am wondering if this will slow me down or prevent rapid growth.

I am also wondering if someone like me, who has done PE for a year with some good results will respond to the process? I am on day twelve today. I apply it twice daily.

Your thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Bigone,

I can’t speak for KMReicher as I don’t know him that well other than passing back and forth a few emails last year. I only know that he is a member of one of Big Al’s sites (forsize.com I think). I do not know his routine or his sexual habits :) but I suspect he is active judging from the following email snippets:

> Your proposal sounds feasible.
> Topical testosterone along with PE per Big Al has given me gains from
> 6.5inches to now over 10 … on my way to a foot long despite my wife’s
> pleadings to stop (she fears a tear).
> I stumbled onto this method of topical testosterone on the penis from a
> patient who was using it inappropriately per package insert.
> He is pan-hypo-pituitary and was concerned with penis “shrinkage”.
> You sound like a chemist … Aloe Vera and L-Arginine are also good
> cofactors to add to your “home brew”.
> Let me know how it goes.
> KMR

and…

> Hey Shiver,
> YES, L-arginine 2000mg at bedtime nightly, plus topical testosterone on the
> penis every other night WORKS.
> Testosterone is a VASODILATOR and since the penis gets multiple erections
> while you sleep you get your own PE, add this to Big Al’s routines and you
> will enlarge.
> My wife wants me to stop now that I have hit 10inches, but I want a foot
> long.
> Good luck, Androgel is RX only in USA.
> KMR

Some say that sexual activity ‘burns’ testosterone. I don’t know anything about that, but since the difference between low normal and high normal are quite wide, I don’t think being sexually active would translate easily to measurement changes on the ruler. After all, any loss of testosterone would be systemic level loss, and bodybuilders using 1000mg+ p/w have never reported any penis size increase. The local application [theory] is about using small amounts that have *extremely* high local effects, but which are minimal relative to free testosterone levels if and when they finally make it to general circulation.

Of course this is just one persons results. If DLD had started with androgel when he started gains, we’d all be attributing his gains to the gel. Perhaps KMR would have made these gains anyway(?) we will never know.

Shiver,

Thanks for the input. I have been doing every day two times with the online Jones recommended. Don’t have a prescription for testosterone or I would try it. I am pretty sure I am thicker and I know I am hanging thicker.

I will add arginine back to my night time suppplement routine. Thanks again.
Big

Big,

Do you find 4AD makes you hornier too? I always thought so when I was using it for weight training purposes, but it could have been placebo.

As for the Arginine, I think the basis for that is along the same lines of viagra users, or cock ring users reporting improved gains. The idea being that it helps hold the ‘scaffold’ apart while healing takes place. I don’t think there is anything magical about arginine in particular.

Thumbs up for Arginine.

I bought a pound from 1fast400.

$22

9 grams a day will last about 50 days.

All looks excellent so far, but no offical measurements for another week or so.

Later guys,
N.

Incidentally…

If you take a 1/2 x 12 inch elastic bandage and wrap it at the base of your cock, an amazing errection will result.

(owing to the fact blood is coming in, but not allowed to leave)

Now is a good time to apply the 4-ad.

Just make sure you take the bandage off after about 10 minutes…

Later,
N.

Oh yeah, night time erections can make you or break you considering 90% of all the HGH released is done so while you sleep. Using Arginine at night is a great thing for PE in general, regardless of using 4ad/Androgel or not.

Northstar, great idea on the application of the 4ad.

Shiver, yes my libido have picked up dramatically. My erection strength is the #1 thing I have taken note of. My erection is at an 11 o’clock angle for the first time in my life!

I noticed my night wood angle is higher and I don’t know why. As to libido, I am always ready to play if I get a good offer for fun.

Besides that, sometimes my dick forces me to rub him good and play with him if he is lonely. LOL

Yes, when I grew, I went from straight out to about 45 above the horizontal.

Geez 28 pages! I’m thinking of getting this gel. Is anyone else using this, how are your gains comming along?

Good luck! My advice is to drink water and try not to ejaculate.

My total is 3/16 of an inch in L and 1/8 in G with light exercises in 15 days. I am off cycle right now for personal reasons. I will continue with it after another week or so.

Dont worry about people drinking water. It makes you quite dehydrated.

I also use Yohimbe, a very good multi vitamin and GLA. I workout and eat right as well.

Note: Results still remain a question because I seem to be an easy gainer anyway. I will not say 4ad is the cause of this. Erection strength could be the cause but I will see once I resume cycle.