The Chemical PE Thread

Always happy to share! I’ve been curious for a while if there was actually any pharmacological benefit, in regards to the examples in the patent, where various vasodialators are utilized. Some of the studies I’ve found seem to indicate that they do have some benefit. The first one I’ve linked, mentioning the relationship these compounds have with DHT, in particular.

They also show that L-Arginine is a probably a necessary supplement, especially since it can be used topically. As for others, I’ve been reading up on L-Carnitine and it’s ability to create and upregulate androgen receptors lately. This can be used topically as well.

L-Carnitine L-Tartrate increases/upregulates Androgen Receptors:
Androgenic responses to resistance exercise: effects of feeding and L-carnitine
"L-carnitine L-tartrate supplementation upregulated AR content, which may promote recovery from RE."

The effects of L-carnitine L-tartrate supplementation on hormonal responses to resistance exercise and recovery
"No other direct effects of LCLT supplementation were observed on the absolute concentrations of the hormones examined, but with more undamaged tissue, a greater number of intact receptors would be available for hormonal interactions."

Androgen receptors inside the CC:
Androgen and estrogen receptors in the human corpus cavernosum penis: immunohistochemical and cell culture results

^Although probably common knowledge, this is particularly interesting. I’ve always thought about the few examples in the patent where DHT is injected rather than applied topically. This finding gives some weight to that method, I think. I’d like to believe targeting the inner receptors make sense. Pure speculation, but I’d imagine there would be more of them in the inner workings of the CC rather than the outer(?). I might be way off, though.

Nice finding! The closing sentence of the abstract brings it to the point:

Nice finds Atmospheric!

Upregulation of androgen receptors does seem like an important facet for maximizing potential growth. On a somewhat similar note, see http://link.spr inger.com/artic … 1007/BF01427054 where they use electrostimulation at 100Hz to increase AR. Although this example is with skeletal muscle, and they’re using needle electrodes, I do wonder if smooth muscle in the Corpus cavernosum would respond similarly, and if non-invasive electrodes could be used.

With regards to the Carnitine, I see no reason why the L-tartrate form should be required, have you got any thoughts on that? I suspect it was just a convenient choice for the researchers.

Previously you mentioned myostatin. I wonder if the known over-the-counter compounds that reduce myostatin (e.g. Creatine, vitamin D, Sulforaphane) would have a worthwhile effect as far as PE goes. Has anyone here experimented with these seriously?

Keep up the research! There’s a tonne of supplements that seem potentially useful long term out there, even if one doesn’t go down the path of hardcore Chem PE

Thanks for the kind words, guys!

I agree about AR upregulation being important. My general idea is that one could inject LCarnitine for awhile before anything else, so the receptors are numerous and upregulated. That way, if one were to then inject DHT, it would have maximum docking sites and effect. Since both can used topically, the same idea applies in that regard. I just think working from the inside out in certain cases may be more beneficial. Just an idea though.

I had never seen studies regarding the relationship between AR and electrostimulation, but there was some mentioning of the use of electricity in the Myostatin patent. They use it as a possible potentiator, stating:
“In some embodiments, a variety of techniques may be employed to increase cell uptake of the shRNA vector construct. In one embodiment, intramuscular electroporation, sometimes referred to as electro-gene transfer, may be used to increase uptake. Electroporation increases the permeability of cell membranes through the application of an electrical field. The electrical field causes transient pore formation in the membranes thereby allowing for uptake of plasmid DNA. In this aspect, electroporation may be achieved, for example, by positioning a set of electrodes of the electroporator on each side of the tissue to be electroporated. An amount of the shRNA vector construct may then be, for example, injected between the electrodes and an electroporation pulse may be delivered to the tissue at a sufficient strength and duration so as not to cause apoptosis and/or necrosis to the cells.”

It seems like it would have a positive effect in general, based on the line about the permeability of cell membranes. Also, it’s application doesn’t seem to involve the use of needle electrodes, so that’s always a good thing.

As far as the Carnitine, I agree, I have no particular opinion about the LT form either. I read some speculation that the LT form may have been used simply because it has a longer shelf life.

About Myostatin, it seems a lot of the related products don’t really give the results that they should. I don’t know if that’s because of them being either bunk/a ripoff, or just that the over-the-counter applications haven’t been developed to their best yet. Personally, I’d be interested in getting an antibody from a research company. That way it’s a laboratory compound and not a “product”. There’s also 2 different embodiments of the myostatin antibody, from my understanding. One has a virus vector, and one is simply the compound. I’m still looking into the differences between the two. It seems in most of the clinical myostatin inhibition studies, the one with the virus attached was used. I haven’t seen people experiment on their own with that though, despite being able to get it, I believe.

The Myostatin patent is a great read though. I was pretty thrilled to see that Myostatin expresses in penile tissue, and that local application of an antibody actually does what we want it to. It could be tricky to figure out the right compound/dose/application, but I think it could be a pretty important development and at least worth a a try.

Just mentioning:
At a molar mass of 161.2 Dalton, (L-)Carnitine seems a great candidate for topicals.

If you’re talking about Myostatin, which limits muscle growth, then you probably have one of its main antagonists Follistatin in mind. There are some interesting pictures on wikipedia on that topic, showing “bodybuilder mice”.

Yeah, I was definitely referencing the antibodies/antagonists such as Follistatin in my post. There are mentions of people using it on BB forums, but I’ve been unable to find reports of exciting results. There are various medical studies showing that myostatin inhibition works, so I’m trying to figure out where the discrepancy is, in regard to why most people haven’t seen particularly impressive results. If anyone has any ideas, it would be great to hear them.

It could be because the black-market Follistatin was bunk (compared to research grade F. Which could cost you about 300$-500$ per dose of 25mcg!), or not sufficient in quantity (have to check how much ng/ml blood was used in experiments), or both. Then there’s the timing factor and the interaction with other hormones.

Although I’m not against the idea of injecting things on site, personally I think it’s only worth doing where warranted.
I don’t believe it’s necessary to inject L-carnitine on site. See for example Carnitine versus androgen administration in the treatment of sexual dysfunction, depressed mood, and fatigue associated with male aging

I’d bet that this is due carnitine being well distributed, and exerting its effects on that tissue. Aside from that it certainly improves AR expression throughout skeletal muscle based on other studies, and I’d say that even with localized site injections and use of a ring, much of it would get distributed through the body. So all in all, I think you can get a better concentration of carnitine via high oral dosing.

This is also somewhat relevant to our interests, depending on how we go about it.

See:

Thanks for the info around electrostimulation and myostatin from that patent. I will have to read up on that a bit more, but it’s certainly interesting.

Great info about L-Carnitine. I suppose site injections aren’t particularly necessary. My original interest was to just use it as a topical anyways. Those findings in regard to it’s relationship with IGF are interesting, too.

The Myostatin patent should probably be read over by someone more scientifically-inclined than myself, hah. A lot of it gets pretty in-depth and I have a hard time making sense of it. There’s lots of great information in there that should be of some guidance if one is able acquire a myostatin-blocking compound that isn’t bunk. Seems like it would be a perfect compoumd for ChemPE if only we can figure out the proper way to utilize it.

Haven’t seen this mentioned, but apparently they’ve developed, or are working to develop, a small molecule agonist of the relaxin receptor. Definitely an interesting read at the least.

https://www.nat ure.com/ncomms/ … ncomms2953.html

I have been reading everything I can about chemical pe. Unfortunately it is just too much information and I don’t even know where to start. This fascinates me and I would love to get my feet wet. Here’s my question. I would like suggestions for entry level enthusiasts. I need a chemical to induce great erections. For now. I am also very intrigued about growth promoting hormones,but I know that’s too expensive. I am hoping somebody can suggest the safest and cheapest boner shot and where o can find it. I want to induce insane erections for clamping and pumping.

Hi 4myE!

Entry-level, what you’re after is PGE-1. You should add a second vasolidator such as Papaverine relatively early (and I mention it, since it comes in handy to have it supplied with your first order), because PGE-1 doses have to be increased (close to) exponentially, which also increases pain levels. At some point you wouldn’t want to clamp a chemical erection, trust me. Clamping and chemical PE can be a killer combination (in positive sense) nonetheless.

Sorry if these have been posted before, all I found in a search was Effect of Penile Tourniquet on Growth Factors in Rat Penile Tissue

This is a bit of a tangent to what has been discussed above..

Transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1) in penile and prostate growth in the rat during sexual maturation.
Transforming growth factor-beta1 (TGF-beta1) in penile and prostate growth in the rat during sexual maturation

Although it’s interesting that TGF-beta1 given locally reduced shaft weight, the interplay of other growth factors like VEGF with TGF during angiogenesis make the whole thing more complex. We really need a lot more data, but it would seem that there is a sweet spot of growth factor ratios from the right about of manual exercises, and perhaps this changes as a function of conditioning. Again the decline of androgen receptors seem significant.

Expression of transforming growth factor-beta1 in penile tissue from rats with bilateral cavernosal nerve ablation.
Expression of transforming growth factor-beta1 in penile tissue from rats with bilateral cavernosal nerve ablation

I’m not sure what the consensus is around PE and collagen, but certainly too much of it is known to be a causative factor in ED. I’d like to think the mechanisms of growth relate more to stimulation of other factors that induce growth.

Medications such as losartan reduce TGF-beta1, see Losartan decreases plasma levels of TGF-beta1 in transplant patients with chronic allograft nephropathy
I’m currently on this, so will be interesting to see results or lack thereof.

These are very old threads, but they add to the idea that clamping would be beneficial, along with what we’re trying to do via the use of various compounds. Some good information exchanged for sure, but it seemed to have hit a bit of a dead end. A good read nonetheless.

Megalophallus explained and its implications on PE

Megalophallus through PE

Doubleweener,

I found some 20 mcg caverject packs. Do you think that after the reconstitution , if I inject a quarter of it, can I keep the rest in refrigerator and use it the next days ?