Why start with the newbie routine

Over on Bibs site I happened to mention starting with the newbie routine.

Bib made some points to me as regards why start with the newbie routine? When he started no such thing was used and equally he’d seen many injuries due to manual methods, perhaps more than caused by hanging.

It did get me thinking, why is the perceived wisdom to start using the newbie routine? And why do people believe manual stretching is safer or should come before hanging?

Consider, when manual stretching, how much force are you applying with the pull? How do you maintain consistency in the force during “sets”? In addition, if the logic is to add length before girth, why Jelq and add girth before you have stretched the ligaments to gain length?

If the issue is conditioning, then as long as hanging is done correctly, that can achieve that goal and perhaps in a more accurate manner.

However, it is fair to say hanging needs a greater investment of time and knowledge than manual methods.

I’m still going to stick to the newbie routine for two-three months. However, I do think I may turn to hanging sooner than I thought. I don;t now think manual methods should be maximised before looking to hang or clamp, the issue is to do any and all methods in a sensible way.

Has anyone any thoughts on these issues?

The potential for damage from hanging is greater in my opinion, especially among newbies who don’t know what the fuck they are doing and are in too big a hurry to learn. The intelligence and dedication required to hang safely is on an entirely different level than doing manual exercises.

What Thunder said, you have to crawl before you can walk.

Patience my friend, after all, it is your dick.

So Thunder, do you agree perhaps the only issue here is being properly prepared to hang, I.e. Investing the knowledge in the subject?

So perhaps the newbie routine is used not based on the best potential for PE, but to avoid newbie injury, which I agree is a valid reason to recommend it.

However, if you take the time to read the threads, gain the knowledge and be sensible, then there isn’t really an issue in hanging from day one of doing PE?

There is more to it than reading the threads, hands on experience counts for a fucking lot also. If you attempt to start hanging right away you are dealing with double the material to learn.

You have more control. The newbie routine is simpler and more convenient. Not every PE’er goes into hanging so why start with that when you may not even need it?

Why is consistency important? There isn’t a specific force threshold that one must reach to gain so why do you need to be precise about the weight applied?

You know what most successful hangers do? They jelq. Jelqing isn’t just for girth, it just a great way to work the tunica. Also, permanent length gains come in the tunica, not the ligs. And “the logic” isn’t necessarily to add length before girth; girth really isn’t that big a hindrance to length gains.

Ruz_, you seem to have the impression that the newbie routine isn’t effective. That’s just not true. It is a great routine which many people have gained from. It is perfect for learning PE basics and getting a feel for what feels right.

No, the PE God just hands down routines to Thunder and he tells us what to do. Of course we think about this stuff. It’s what this forum is dedicated to.

Thunder don’t know shit. Take everything he says with a pound of salt.

IMO, manual stretches can be dangerous and are not productive, however they’re still make nice warmup. I can’t imagine any gains from them alone, unless you have very tight ligaments. Jelqs from the other hand, are the king of PE exercises :nodding:

The newbie routine is a must. Take your average PEer, who up until starting PE has only handled his dick during sex or masturbation.

The newbie routine gives one a greater feeling of his own penis, it gets him acquainted with his dick’s possibilities and potentials.

When I first started PE, long before I found out about Thunder’s, I skipped on newbie gains and got an injury precisely because I started out too heavy. I needed a deconditioning break, and got gains after a month of THE NEWBIE ROUTINE.

Never underestimate the importance of the newbie routine!

I’m just saying the logic that routine stretches “gives more control” is proved how exactly?

With hanging you can set the weight and sets as well as duration. You can ensure each session provides the relevant weight, angle and duration and over a period can control how to increase a session. You know if you set 2.5kg weight, that is the stretch you will get.

With manual, how can you possibly know what pressure you are stretching with? How do you control this is constant during a period or increases by the correct amount over weeks and months? It has to be a less accurate approach.

But I do take the other points made.

You approach PE as if it’s a formula. This isn’t some equation that you plug all these variables in and it pops out your gains. The weight is not the important part. The important part is just getting the right “feel”. You can do this easier using your hands.

When I hang, it’s normal for me to change weight between sets, be it adding or taking away weight. I change the angle, duration, even the hanger throughout a session. By your reasoning, my inconsistency should be detrimental. It’s not about consistency, though. The point is to get the same soreness and tension I used to get from manual stretching. I still do manual stretches between a hanging and jelqing session. To me, it’s like ironing out the creases.

There is manual PE and mechanical PE. The trade-off is that mechanical gives more intensity but less precision. But as a newbie, you don’t need that kind of intensity.

Hbgreek,

Interesting debate. However, you say “You approach PE as if it's a formula”, however, surely PE is related to the body and medical issues, fundamentally it is exactly a science?

Medicine and medical matters are the purest form of science? The body is a scientific machine, and while I agree everyone differs, we are all human and all have the fundamentals in how our body operates.

I’m not talking about what weight is hung, I’m talking about controlling a process to deliver gains in the best form possible. I make this point in relation to lifting weights. For example, I can lift dumbbells at home or I can use cable machines at the gym. Both approaches ultimately will give me an increase in muscle to the same standard, however, the cable approach is probably the better form of lifting and likely to give me better results quicker since I’m able to correctly load and ensure the body part takes the true weight on a consistent basis, rather than risk developing an uncontrolled form through home lifting.

So regardless of the weight, I’m saying hanging can give the same feeling, but is under a greater element of control?

As for saying you are inconsistent, that depends. You have gained, but the issue is not that, because if you had a different approach no one can speculate whether your gains or the speed of gains would be different? And of course, angle of load would entirely depend on your biological factors, LOT, inner shaft, exit point, ligament tightness etc.

I’m not saying there is a one size fits all approach, far from that. I’m saying within hanging for example there is great room to cater for individuality, I.e. Duration, weight, sets, angle of hanging, etc. All of those factors will depend on the details mentioned. However, what you can do with hanging is ensure within your own individual program you are getting a consistency of what you need from the stresses placed.

So while what two people may do in a hanging session could be very different, both are maximising potential gains and the speed and optimisation of those gains within a controlled manner, rather than not controlling such factors.

With manual stretching, how do you ensure a consistency of force applied? Maybe your ligs are still stressed and while you feel the load is the same, it is less? Maybe you workout and your muscle increases meaning force applied is too great and causes injury?

After all, returning to weight lifting, why are weights labelled in kg’s? If the approach was solely to go by feel, weights or even distances as regards running, cycling etc wouldn’t be mentioned would they? People should just go on feel alone?

Yet to exercise to complete failure will delivery injury. Surely a much better control is given by eliminating unknowns and controlling factors and gains, be that muscle or ligament stretching?

So I lift 10 kg’s for 2 weeks. Over that period the muscle/ligament etc adapts, I don’t always exercise to failure, but I know within that period the muscle or whatever has adapted to take the weight, then I move to the next stage. This delivers results ensuring consistency and reducing the risk of training to complete failure.

That is just my thought.

Mate, think about those people injuring themselves with stretches and jelqs. They would most likely tore their dicks off if they hang.

You are forgetting the complications of hanging itself. Sure the weight applied is simple and controllable, but hangin 10 pounds isn’t as easy as throwing some weight on a barbell and then picking it up. One day you get a good wrap, the next day you don’t, one day you get a decent hanger attachment, the next day you don’t.

If it was as simple as you make it sound, everybody would be hanging. Read about the problems that guys run into in the Hanger’s Forum before you determine that hanging isn’t complicated.