Ahh, the ache and the itch..

PIs are just as the name says, “Physiologic Indicators”. These are PHYSICAL signs which tend to indicate whats happening. I made no mention of feelings other than avoiding pain.

Neutrals MUST BE INTERPRETED! They can be negative or positive, FOR YOU! You must interpret them in terms of what they indicate for you. So, for some guys, they find that red spots are fine, for other guys they may indicate too much force.

I didn’t talk much about any “feelings” other than pain which I advise to avoid, and I mentioned achyness as a “neutral”.

I didn’t discuss feelings because they can be ambiguous and vary greatly from guy to guy. I didn’t feel when I wrote the article that what I feel when gaining will be the same for most guys…and I still feel that way.

I do think that the itching and achy feeling certainly may turn out to have benefit, certainly for the individual, if he finds that it is a good indicator. I just am not convinced YET that it will mean the same thing for most guys. So, again they would fall into the NEUTRAL category, meaning they have to be interpreted for what they mean FOR YOU.

A “normal dick” would be your baseline, uneffected by PE, so neither positive or negative. Its when you begin to move away from your baseline that you need to know if its a “positive” or “negative” effect. Before I wrote the “PIs”, many guys would be getting SCREAMING indicators that they were going in the wrong direction, but didn’t understand what it meant, so they would keep going in a bad direction.

Right - but being at the baseline, in itself, is an “absence of PIs”, right? As opposed to a “neutral PI”?

Because otherwise, we’ d all have been feeling a constant, neutral PI all our lives, prior to starting PE. That’s all I was saying.

But you’re saying that we don’t necessarily need the presence of good PIs - just the absence of bad ones?

I’m a little behind on this thread but:

My experience has been that for me at least there seems to be a threshold at 3 days off. I have measured many small gains where the only difference is the 3 days off. If I were in the state that Acid describes, still getting itching on the second day off, I would not be afraid to start again that night.

But at the level I train, I have found that 3 full days off seems to be the equivalent to the week off that Big Al suggests. I simply take three full days off every so often just to clear the pipes so to speak. I like to do it at least once per month. I would not call it a deconditioning break, but I have found that the consistency of the tissues is much different after three full days off, and I have to start at less than the workout I did just three days previous.

PIs are indicators of changes off your baseline. Your baseline is not a neutral PI, its your normal state. When you begin PE, you will get changes off that normal or baseline. Those changes are PIs. Let me post a quote from the PI thread;

“:PIs (Physiologic Indicators) are the observable physical responses of your penis to the forces applied in PE. Anyone who has done any PE has seen these, yet many don’t use them for the invaluable information that they offer. The chances of being successful in PE dramatically improves or drops based on your ability to understand what your “body is telling you”!”

So, there are indicators that are reliably bad, reliably good, and neutral…meaning that in of themselves you cannot tell if they are good or bad (for you), you will need other indicators to be able to understand what they mean for you. Your normal state is not the same as Neutral PIs. An example of a Neutral PI is red spots, from applied force. This normally doesn’t occur when you aren’t applying forces to your dick.

So, yes the baseline IS the absence of PI’s. Although you could be at a point where you don’t seem to have indicators, but if you get that WHILE you are PEing, it may be shrinkage off your high flaccid state, which then is indicating something for you.

True baseline can only occur after a layoff long enough for your penis to neither be recovering or in a supercompensation mode. To complicate it further, if you have real gains, you will no longer be at your (old) baseline for size, but that larger size is now your new baseline in the true sense of the word.

PIs are like a rough road map to bring you closer to the “growth zone”. If you aren’t getting negative PIs, that just means you aren’t going in the wrong direction, but you aren’t actively going in the right direction either…you just aren’t getting further off track.

Positive PIs mean you are moving TOWARDS the growth zone, and of course gains mean you are in it. So, you do need to be seeing positive PIs to be gaining, with the possible exception of hanging. I am not an expert at hanging, and I get conflicting reports from them on the subject, so I will leave it at that.

“Your baseline is not a neutral PI, its your normal state … the baseline IS the absence of PI’s.”

“you do need to be seeing positive PIs to be gaining,”

Thanks for clarifying.

Glad to help.

Mmm yeah I was achin’and itchin’alot last night:D ,Lol

I did alot of stretching,(Ligs and tunica),a good bit of jelqing and some slinky type compression bends:)

I think it’s the sadsack slinky I was doing from side side AND up and down:)

I very rarely give it an all around work out but that’s basically what I did:)

Let us know how the unit feels on your day off. That seems to be how it goes for me. (off day, itch and ache = growth of some sort)

Well it was only feeling like that as I went to sleep but it’s been normal ever since I woke up….

No morning wood though so I figure the workout did tire it out pretty good:)

The PEgym site mentions itching here:

“When stretching, many people feel different things. During and after a stretch, it’s not uncommon to feel a slight tingling sensation, a sense of itchiness, or a feeling of fatigue in your penis. If you have any of these, you are on the right track.”

Thanks for that Privacy,

Also, I went onto the PE Gym forums, and lo and behold, a moderator named “Kingpole”. Is that “our” Kingpole? I must say, however, TP seems to be a much better site. (if you disagree with me, please don’t go off on it in this thread ;) )

I definitely get that itch from girth exercises

I have a little itch in the urethra today. But, I think it’s more because I want to get me some, than from my jelqing today. :)

I am going to say something potentially controversial here.

I had sex twice yesterday, (once in the morning and once in the night), after I had a short jelqing session in the am.

My unit aches today, and I am feeling some tingling as well. Here’s the thing though; my EQ is through the roof again. (morning wood, spontaneous erections throughout the day, etc.)

During my first couple of months of PE, I have always had pretty regular sex, (3+ times per week), of course on workout days, and even right after a routine.

I would argue that HAVING sex and ejaculating is a good thing for growth.

I am continuing a theory from KoolJon from another thread here.

After my routine, I often will edge and balloon. After I balloon, and finish my routine, my unit will ache for some time during the rest of the day. My question is, does this mean I have expanded the tunica and/or smooth muscle, equalling growth? I am not sure here. What do you guys think?