Are you going in circles with your PE?

I began PE back in September and did nothing but wet jelqs at first. I believe I then quickly attempted to add stretching into my routine and go a bit higher on the jelqs. I noticed that when I finally was able to get to the same amount of work at the newbie routine suggested that I might have been overtraining. I believed this notion of being over trained because of what many of the people over here had explain about PI’s. I believe I stopped PE for a few days and my length came back, but that could have been in my head.

Anyways I began to slow down my jelqs and really and concentrate on each and every one of them. I believe that I was getting a mix of positive PI’s and negative PIS, but I never really attained any growth. I think this is because I never really stuck with something long enough and never really fully adopted the theory of PI’s as the truth of what makes the penis grow. I still to this day do not understand what to believe about how to tell you are in growth mode.

I then switched to hanging about a month and a half ago and started hanging with the bib starter hanger. I joined BiB’s forum over there and have been communicating with him back and fourth since day one. The first week I began hanging BTC with 2.5 lbs which seemed pretty heavy but I quickly adapted and was able to hang 5 lbs. I hung 5 lbs for about the next month or so and noticed I was seeing skin creep down my shaft as well as a bit of growth! I had gone from 6.8 BPEL to 7.1 BPEL most from hanging alone. I hung everyday during that time period and up until last week I hung all BTC. Towards the end of my run with hanging BTC, I decided that I wasnt going to get much growth from my ligs or from this angle of stretching because my lot was 7:30 ish and it would be best for me to hang over my shoulder or over a fulcrum; and that is exactly what I did.

After I began hanging with the fulcrum, the stress switched from my ligs to my tunica I felt happy because I knew of the tunica’s unlimited potential for growth in length. After my hanging sessions my unit was pretty sore and often was turtled, not unlike when I used to hang BTC. However it was even more turtled and often had a hard and warm feeling to it. It remained turtled even for several days, but I kept getting reassured by bib that this is a natural response of the tunica and that everything was happening as it should. He reassured me that this swelling of the tunica still meant that I was creating new deformation and that when I were to take a break for a few days (which he said would be a stupid thing to do) that my tunica would relax and my length would come back.

My morning woods have been gone for quite some time and my normal boners arent really that amazing anymore. This week I was actually measuring a tad bit smaller, but was reminded about my swelled up tunica. I tried to hang last night and I was having to much trouble with the hanger because I couldnt get a grip without it making my head super filled up with blood and turning purple, numb, and cold. So I had enough and got fed the FUCK UP.

I am sitting here wondering what to do right now. Do I keep trying to hang: go back to BTC and see if I can get any gains this way. Do I keep trying to hang: take a break for a couple days and start hanging again but paying careful attention to my PI’s. Or do I stop hanging and switch back to manual routines? I have not really jelqed in a while and when I went back and did it last night it felt sooo good. I really just wish I knew what the proper way to do this is, I really am tired of wasting time, alot of money, and effort. Thanks guys, you all are super smart.

…also I forgot to mention, when I first started hanging I was getting morning woods for a little bit, but they stopped quickly a few weeks in.

Let’s see. First point, length work tends to lower EQ. If you are doing a lot of stretching/hanging, a bad EQ isn’t a negative PI per se. But turtling lastin more than 1-2 days definitely is a bad sign, IMHO. I don’t think it’s a sign that ‘deformation is happening’: if this was true, after some rest one should measure longer; I had a long lasting turtling and it hasn’t lead any new growth - quite the contrary.

Second point, hanging is a motherf***er, no surprise here. If you aren’t going to sacrifice a considerable portion of your private life for some weeks/months, forget hanging the Bib’ way.

Basically, you have to understand not how PE works, but how your penis react to PE stimuli.
Basing on what are you saying, I think you are in the ‘less is more’ group.

So: is it a good idea coming back to manuals? IMHO, yes, especially jelqs. My personal mantra is: whatever kind of PE you are doing, always add some jelqs. You can also try something new with manuals: in example, I think TOW stretches are interesting; also I would, try different kind of jelqs - see the ‘New Jelq city’, in example.

Keep your PE interesting trying something new every three months or such: never tried pumping? Time to (just an example). But the corner-stone, in your case, is: if you suspect that you are going to overtrain, probably this is true; if you suspect that another set of stretching/jelqing/hanging or whatever could be too much, probably is.

Underworking is better than overworking. Just that simple.

Just my very, very personal opinions.

You decided to change to straight up after about a month then? The reason for hanging straight up was because of low LOT? Just some things I thought I would clarify.

Thanks marinara, you have very informative ideas that I will take into careful consideration.

Yes I have always been told that I was a less is more person, however I believe it was hard for me to notice growth when just doing a few slow jelqs here and there. By the way, when I was doing those jelqs I was in fact doing them the new jelq city way. I have taken advice from Sparkyx and Chronostone for quite some time when I was first beginning.

As of now, I am wondering if I should stick with hanging and simply try to hang btc again. I did get some gains from this I believe, but I know my tunica and septum are what is holding my length back. I feel like I could target this very well from manual stretches, however the thing is I never know how much is enough or how much force I am exerting on my unit. Hanging is very linear and methodical and you always know the amount of force you will be placing on your unit.

I will incorperate jelqs again. A good question I have is how do you know when you should stop you session? What feeling will accumulate in your penis? I remember if my penis started to feel like it was getting pretty worked during a session, I would stop and then post workout would turtle up for a bit and possibly had red spots on it. However when I just did a little bit of work and stopped before I was fatigued at all, my unit would stay a bit plump after training but I never really saw a growth increase from this.

As for pumping, I have tried it a few times and got ALOT of dots on my unit even at like sub 5hg.
I quickly gave it up, but I still have it so i might try it again if needed.

I really wish I had someone to help me out with a routine and could help me out with my progression. I would keep a detailed log of EVERYTHING I notice and hopefully that would help. I feel like starting over, but do not know where to start.

Don’t think at those questions, or you’ll never go out. Start with a minimal routine, like the linear newbie routine. It’s not required to have any feeling to have growth: you can have growth without fatigue, aching or such. If you go straight, augmenting the time and intensity slightly month after month, you un-avoidably will match the optimal amount of work.

Adversely, if you are searching for some feeling, or adding work because you always doubt you are not doing enough work, you always will end doing too much.

That’s the same with hanging: don’t think at the optimum amount of weight, or searching fatigue etc.. Just start with a low weigth, and add 1/2 pound week after week. You’ll match the weight that work - how you couldn’t?

Just common sense :) .

Truth.

Well I would like to continue hanging because I spend over 100 dollars on equiptment. However, I would like to attempt it from a different approach then BiB reccomends. I want to take it from the approach of watching my PI’s. My unit feels like it is still over worked as is not hanging like normal. Should I just lay off pe for a few days and then reattempt to hang BTC with a lower weight?

Or do you honestly feel as if I should just drop the hanging all together and focus on jelqing and manual stretching. Also taking days off goes against everything BiB preaches but it seems as if the Less is More people advocate it highly when doing a manual routine. I really dont understand how you would need to take breaks with a manual routine, but with a hanging routine it is essential to hang everyday to prevent healing stronger and tougher.

I can only speak for myself. I had gains by hanging, and I was hanging 5 times/week. I never felt that ‘fatigue’ that Bib says is so essential to have gains.

Then, I added a bit of manual stretching to hanging; at first, my penis turtled a bit. I continued hanging despite the turtling, and as a consequence I lost erections for a week or more (can’t remember right now), a penis shortened to less than it was before starting hanging, and I was forced to rest of course.

After a couple of weeks, I regained erections and most of my length, but some of the gains I had never came back.

Moral: I don’t think that ‘no rest days’ is true, at least if you are using a good amount of weight/force. And, add to that, I have a steel penis: I’m not, generally speaking, a ‘less is more’ kind of PEer.

So said, go on manuals or on hanging, as you like, but use common sense: if your penis is telling you ‘I’ve had too much of it.’, give him a break.

If one likes to PE everyday, he has to use low forces. If one wants to use high forces, everyday is not the way to go.

Do your choice, then be consistent and have faith.

Great. Thanks man.

Had similar problem. This thread was insightful

There is a lot to cover here.

First of all, pick ONE method to start with and work with that long enough to figure out what makes you grow.

Second, I do believe that hanging is different from some of the other methods, in that PIs might not be as critical to gains, but I do believe they are still relevant. For hanging, I recommend you read up what Monty has to say, I think he has a good handle on it.

You have to understand that the best way to gain is to just use enough to get it to begin, and not more. If you greatly pass the level needed, you begin to get very significant tissue toughening. So, you may get great gains for a month or so, then it comes to a screeching halt.

I tend to think, even with hangers, that if your dick stops working, you are way over what wts you should be using. Most successful hangers talk about great EQ also, and if EQ is depressed, not for more than a day of rest. If you are losing length and dropping EQ for more than a day, I suggest you are probably using too much wt.

I am not an expert on hanging, so read Monty’s stuff with I think is excellent. He uses minimum wt to irritate and stretch the connective tissues, THEN small PE wts to keep it in the extended state while it heals. I think its a big mistake to hang, then let it turtle. But read all his stuff and decide for yourself.

What I would recommend to you and others in your same boat is just use jelquing until you begin to see gains. Its not the METHOD of PE that produces gains, rather dialing in the force/time/recovery ratio that gets you into the growth zone. Whats also important is to avoid injury! What the hell good is all this if you injure yourself or drop your EQ so low that your dick doesn’t even work well!

So, I recommend starting with a low amount of daily time jelquing (3 minutes) at a moderate force (never more than slightly uncomfortable, better yet keep it comfortable!) Then as you begin to see EQ rise (EQ should come up way before any gains begin), then you can begin to add about 2 minutes a week to your daily routine.

Once your EQ peaks then begins to drop a bit ( lets say at about 20 minutes a day of PE) then you know you are slightly past the right amount of time. So, back it down a bit, and experiment in about that range. Experiment with changing your force slightly, experiment with days off, etc.

You may find that ideally you get the best EQ at 30 minutes a day, but get your best gains at 35 minutes at 2 on and 2 off! NO ONE can tell YOU what you need to do to gain! YOU have to find it your self! The great thing about the above approach, is its slow, but you SHOULD have a very good chance at finding the “growth zone” for you.

The problem with jumping around with different methods and times and force is if you have a very small window of “growth zone” finding it will be pure luck, and chances are you will never find it accidentally.

Use the above method, be disciplined and keep a journal, and don’t make any big dramatic changes…just small, well thought out changes, BASED ON YOUR EQ and reactions, and length. Also, I think a week or two off every 6 weeks is a very good idea for most guys. I also think that for jelquing, measuring your bpfsl (bone pressed flaccid stretched length) at modest pull, not pulling your dick off to measure…is a very good indicator of when you need a day off. If its more than 3 mil. shorter than your best length, chances are you need more time off before you hit it again.

Anyway good luck.

Sparkyx,

Thank you. You are very helpful and never cease to give sound advice on this topic. You are correct about picking a method and sticking with it. I believe I chose hanging as my final method that I was going to adhere too, but after a while with not really having good erections and always having constant turtling, It really felt as if i was doing something incorrect.

Are you suggesting that it would be in my best interest to revert back to jelqing as my main form of PE and basically start from scratch? I have no problem with that if that IS what you are recommending. its been two days back and my eq is slowly increasing again and I am starting to get morning woods again, even though I am not 100% back to how I was before hanging. Should I wait until my eq is amazing again and then hit the at 3 mins and add 2 mins every week? I know everyone is different but I am just trying to be safe and EFFECTIVE. I am tired of running around in circles wasting time and getting nowhere in my routine because I dont understand who is correct about signs to look for. Bib says one thing, the thunders community says another….

I hope you can see how frustration my situation can be from my eyes. But, jelqing it is time for a change so that I can stay on a linear path to success, and that time is right now.

I mainly started hanging for length because I continuously read about gaining length being much easier to do before working on girth. Plus girth doesn’t seem that difficult for me to gain, but length is a bitch. Anyways, so hang up the PE. Thanks again.

Hanging is a great method, but I can’t really coach you through it because of my limited experience with it. If you choose to jelque, I can at least guide you a bit if you need it. PIs apply slightly different to the two methods.

If you want to jelque, yes wait a couple weeks to recover and for your EQ to peak, then begin to drop again. This will indicate fully recovered smooth muscle.

I can tell you this, that many guys had great length gains with jelquing, you just concentrate on the stretch at a lower erection level. Read, “new jelque city” for a really good explanation of it.

I think many people (including me) enter the world of hanging thinking that it is THE way to gain length.

My experience is that hanging is really hard work and it requires a lot of dedication. Hours daily over long periods of time. It`s definitely not the easy way.

I just recently quit hanging myself, because it was simply too time consuming and I felt tied down each day. Luckily, I seem to have gotten some gains that I managed to cement.

Now I`ve gone back to jelqing 15-20 minutes 5 days a week with weekends off. Jelqing works length as well you know.

I`m adding some sort of stretching this week. Perhaps I`ll end up following Memento`s routine.

Anyway, I`m having a much more relaxed attitude towards PE now. More like brushing my teeth.

I`d rather spend two years with small daily effort gaining an inch, rather than dedicating my life to PE for one year to get an inch.

Decide what you`re comfortable with and what suits you the best in the LONG RUN.

Whatever you`re comfortable with in the long run is what will give you gains.

Don`t worry that you measurement went down. I find that happens with hanging sometimes. I also experienced reduced EQ periodically, if hanging heavy. Personally, that`s one of the things that I really did not like with hanging, as I get anxious if I don`t experience solid erections for extended periods of time.

Bottom line is that hanging works great if you are able to stick with it and willing to tolerate reduced EQ for periods of time, which could also happen with manual work btw.

If not, I would consider a manual routine.

Good luck!:)

Awesome post ren!

I agree I went into hanging thinking it was going to be the easiest way to gain length. Not simply because it was a passive exercise, but because it was very linear and methodological. I figured I would just stick to a routine and simply increase weights a little bit at a time, and over time I would look down and find a longer wang in my pants.

However, it is a huge mindfuck when you have a person who has been hanging for 10 years and is considered the “guru” of hanging, telling you that the turtling and loss of eq are fine signs and to just keep hanging. But, when you come to thunders you have people telling you about all of these PI’s to look for which are the “sure signs” that you are on the right path to growth.

My unit started to hang awesome for a while and my eq wasnt bad and I was gaining length from hanging at the beginning. But then slowly it started to change and my eq shot to shit and my unit was always shriveled and hard, oh and not to mention sore. I was once again reassured by bib that this was fine and to keep hanging. Well I figured this wasn’t right when my BPSFL started to decrease a tiny bit dont and came back to my home at thunders for advice from my main guys!

I really just want to follow a path where I am seeing gains and I know that it is the CORRECT way of going about this without injury or stalling. I really dont have a problem going back to manual exercises, however I just never felt I was doing it with enough force or that I was going to hard. Since it is not linear and precise like hanging I was always unconfident in my practices. Even with manual stretches, my unit would retract after my sessions and I really never saw any growth.

I believe the only times I seriously saw growth was in the beginning of my hanging sessions when I hung BTC at like 2.5 lbs to 3.5 lbs. I went to 5 lbs and increased my time and then the turtling came along. I dont know, maybe I am answering my own questions. Maybe I should hang just at that pussy weight of 2.5-3.5 lbs. I dont care if people think 5 lbs is nothing, I tried hanging with 7 and my dick almost ripped off. So i guess weight is relative.

Hopefully someone will come along and say YO, BUDZ. Do this. Do this. Do this. Thats it. Dont ask questions, just do this, stick with it and watch your PI’s because these ARE actually what means you will grow. But no one has really said that yet, so I dont know. Back to the drawing board I guess.

PS… sparky, do you think I really need to wait weeks before I touch my unit again? I think in a few days I should have full erections again.

Generally, I think it is wrong to give concrete advice to how people should conduct their lifes, but I`m tempted to say that it would probably better for you now to go with a manual routine.

How much have you gained since you started PE?

The main reason I`m suggesting going back to manual work, is that I suspect you have tremendous potential from manual work since you are relatively new to PE. Hanging should be like bringing out the big guns, late in your PE career when nothing else works. In my opinion that is.

As for “gurus” and Thundersplace, just be aware that there are several schools of thoughts here as well. Some seems to go with the HARD AND HEAVY approach. The sessions are brutal and heavy and you can hear them talking to their dick: You better grow mofo or I will punish you even harder tomorrow.

Others like Sparky seems to favor a more tender approach. Always listening to what their dear member is communicating while massaging it gently and singing to it with a soft voice:) If junior is moody and is not happy with new behavior, they always listen and are very understanding. Correct me if I`m wrong Sparky:)

Personally, I tend to lie slightly between the middle of these two.

I don`t think Bib is necessarily wrong, but hey, it is your dick, and you need to know what you are comfortable with.

I could be comfortable having my dick in a state like you describe if it was for a few months and I knew that I gained an inch. The problem though is that you most likely will have to hang 6 months to get any solid results. I`m throwing out a random number here so don`t take my word for it. Also, it could be that your EQ will come back and your turtling will diminish eventually on the routine you are on now.

Btw, do not care about weights at all. They are just numbers and they mean jack shit. If you can gain with 2 lbs, CONGRATULATIONS TO YOU. Do you think a guy that needs to hang 40 lbs to gain is cooler than you? Please don`t call 7 lbs a pussy weight. Even Bib recommends starting out superlight and gaining SLOWLY over time. Remember, our goal is to get a bigger dick, not impress people on the internet with how much weights we are lifting. I suppose you don`t brag to people in real life about this?:)

Depending on your gains so far, I think going back to manual work would be good for you. You could for example do this:

10-15 minutes wet jelqing with moderate intensity 5 days a week, weekends off. Or you could do every other day. Be consistent. Watch for positive PIs. A plump flaccid is always good. Solid erections.

I`m betting that you can gain on this alone.

After a month or so, introduce some stretching. If you do jelqing 5 days a week, it could very well be that stretching every day would be overkill for YOU. Try every other day. Or simply, a very small and light stretching session 5 days a week.

Experiment. Have fun!