Cementing gains daily - the science

The Science of Flexibility; Atler, Michael J. ISBN-0-7360-4898-7

pp. 71

Optimal stretching

heat first
low intensity prolonged time with heat
cool tissue to normal before releasing the stretch

Interesting. Of course it’s aimed at athletes and you haven’t given the context but it echoes the principles we recommend here for extender usage and other forms of PE.

He gets down to the level of collagen deformation and tendon deformation, including the effect of temperature on the permanence of deformation due to stretching.

Kdong, you’ve been posting a lot today about using cooling. I’ve been thinking about using it myself over the last few days. I can’t remember who used to talk about using ice(It might have been kingpole) as a cool-down in an elongated state, in an attempt to increase the micro-tearing through contraction. I’ve been thinking about using it at the end of a clamping session, in a clamped state, just dipping my parts into a glass of ice-water (and then maybe rewarming them up to a normal temperature).

Lots of people have talked about cooling over the past 10+ years, firegoat and me for a start. I don’t think you necessarily need to cool quickly after PE, as long as you stay in a lengthened state for long enough to reach normal temperature, that should really do the job. OK, that indicates that maybe it’s best to lay off the heat for the last 5 minutes of a pumping or extending session but it doesn’t infer that you need a cool compress, just that one would speed the process.

Also, I don’t think it necessarily precludes a hot wrap at the end of your session. Generally when doing a hot wrap you’d still be manipulating and massaging the tissue and you will cool in a lengthened state.

kdong,

It would be nice to have a lot more detail ;)

I do pump with ice water. Feels good after a very intense session.

Thats a good read too:
https://books.g oogle.de/books? … nepage&q&f=true
Goes into detail about how to go beyond elasticity. In essence the same.
It also says that with heat the need for intensity goes down.

For more detail I tried to discuss it here:dickerschwanz - Girth theory: glans and corpus cavernosum.
Quote:
"It says tropocollagen bonds are opened and loose their ability to bring the collagen back to zero with heat over 40C.
Now taking this in relation to the prior statements that stretching for over an hour(at rather low tension, without mentioning of added heat) causes permanent changes by melting of the tropocollagen bonds is quiet intruiging.
When talking about higher tension they named it: tearing the gross structure or “disrupting the intermolecular bonds between tropocollagen units.” "

I think increasing time before intensity is, if you can afford time, the best way to maximize and cement gains in the long run.

Of interest is Bikram Hot Yoga

It is performed in a room held at 104-105 degrees F.

It may be coincidental with high temperatures in India, or it may be germane.

A Comprehensive Guide to Geriatric Rehabilitation:

A Comprehensive Guide to Geriatric Rehabilitation: [previously entitled … - Google Books

In this book — the authors state that collagen must be heated to 42.5 degrees C and held there for 30 minutes in order to

"produce residual lengthening" (permanent deformation); i.e. remains after stretching.

That is 109 degrees. Is that a hard and fast rule? probably not. Is it optimal? — perhaps.

The authors go on to propose a common approach to physical therapy yet novel to PE.

They propose heating the tissue with ultrasound.

One can propose using an extender appliance to place the penis under traction, while applying ultrasound to the penis to heat the tissue.

Or while hanging, or clamping.

Cooling the penis with cool or cold water before releasing the tension ensures the deformation is "locked in" or cemented.

It could also be used intermittently with jelquing.

When doing heated water pumping I used to measure the C° with these info in mind and I could go up to 45°C. Comfortable would be around 42.

Take care as in a vacuum the heat or cold sensations are diminished.

With ice cold water its really annoying but in the vac pump its totally relaxing. Never had myself hurt with ice or heat.

For what it’s worth. I useed my bathmate with the hottest water I can and for my last set I used cold water went to Max expansion. I seem to have a much fuller flaccid and longer lasting post pump expansion which I no longer seemed to been getting. It could been a coincidence since I only did it one time. The cold water was actually extremely enjoyable for me.

Any updates on this? Tried the cold water set again?

My bathmate is supposed to get here tomorrow and I’m thinking I might try this as well. Final set with cold or at least cool water.

Quite rightly so, see my thread on ‘Best way to continue PE whilst resting between PE sessions,.’ I use ice cold water/ice cubes or small towel folded into a tube and set in the ice compartment of freezer and hot water, just about bearably hot. It works and I believe it assists with building up flexibility in the cellular structure. This is based on a sports science concept I know about from my work at a sports college/university. Professional sports-people do this method to assist muscle, tissue and ligament work before and after rigorous sports like football or tennis for example. There are detailed abstracts on this on many sports websites - check them out. NB - I agree with Morbidangel that ice cold water is fun and enjoyable.

I have. The best thing I can say so far for me Atleast is I feel I have better next day PI. I also get much less lymph fluid build up. But if you wanted to have sex after pumping and want it as big as possible it’s not the way to go but I seem to have a better next day flaccid.

I posted a study on a few sites on how ice believe it or not is been possiblely shown to stretch muscles better than heat. That the ice causes vasodilation to muscles and extreme relaxation to smooth muscle tissues. This sounds contractdictory .This is somewhat counter productive for heating of collagen deformation but possiblely better for girth. But after my penis has been super heated and expanded the benefit is your still cooling that expanded state in a cold enviorment ,and incresasing blood. Here is part of the study. I think this method could be beneficial for those with ED.

” The reason why cryotherapy, or the use of ice as treatment, works for improving flexibility is a bit confusing. The accepted theory is the reverse of what you might think. Essentially the cold will cause vasodilation, or the widening of your blood vessels. Vasodilation allows for greater blood flow and higher temperature inside the muscle. This has a soothing effect on the musculature, which in turn reduces its resistance to being stretched.”

“When you apply ice to an area of your body, it does create vasoconstriction to the superficial blood vessels, or blood vessels near the surface of your skin. At the same time, it increases blood flow underneath the superficial area to prevent heat loss. This helps reduce a muscles resistance to stretching.”

” Vasodilation refers to the widening of blood vessels.[1] It results from relaxation of smooth muscle cells within the vessel wall” relaxation of the smooth muscles is what allows erections to happen and the principal that Viagra works.

Results from study:

“We found differences in the responses among subject groups. Supine hamstring flexibility after stretching with ice was greater than both stretching with heat and stretching alone. Scores after stretching with heat and stretching alone were not different.”

Conclusions from study:

“The results of our investigation suggest that the application of ice may provide enhanced short-term improvements in flexibility over heat or stretching alone. Further research is necessary to investigate the possible mechanisms for these improvements and to determine whether similar results can be obtained with other muscle groups.”

This study? Comparison of stretching with ice, stretching with heat, or stretching alone on hamstring flexibility - PubMed

Very small test group (24 in total including control and heat tests) and related to hamstrings. So it’s interesting but it’s not much in the way of proof.

That is one I used. Your are correct memento. It is a small study without much in proof. I know this post was also mostly targeting cooling the collagen deformation and cementing length gains. I think cold water pumping could be a good way to achieve that while holding or possiblely expanding that extended state while cooling. .

Im mostly interested in the healing properties of ice and the vasodilation effects mentioned on smooth muscle due to ice and ways to possiblely get more girth expansion.