Does Sex/Masturbation Hinder Gains

Energy loss is real. I don’t need “scientific proof” , I have my own observations.

Did you ever wonder why this question is asked again and again? All because of moral reasons? (that masturbation is “bad”?)
Let me tell you why: because people strongly FEEL a connection with their PE progress and ejaculations. They see and feel the negative effect themselves. That’s why.

I remember marco’s thread where he did an experiment, he jerqed everyday, and in a few weeks he lost some size and quality of erections (masturbation experiment). He was trying to prove it was nonsonse, but he was really “shocked” by the results.

Your comment about this was something like : “you did too much masturbation” :)
Well, if too much has an effect, so has less of it. (but a lesser effect, but an effect nevertheless)

If you stop acting so logical, and use the right half of your brain also, you’ll probably see it yourself.

ps: all those previous thread have no information regarding to ejaculations and testesterone level as far as I know. I’d love to check a study about that. (mast. frequency vs. testesterone level change).

The hormonal world is very complicated and I would think that there are many that we do not know that they even exist. I think that all these discussions lead us to a way of understanding. That whether they are exactly true is less important than if the model of understanding the problem actually gives results. In other words we will see things a certain way until something better way comes along.

Wad

Let’s be fair to Marco’s experiment. He stated that he masturbated 22-25 times in a two week period (I assume without taking rest days during that time).

I did not tell him he was masturbating too much; I suggested he was taking his experiment a little far, condering that he also did PE during that time

According to the way you are looking at the issue, this would also apply: If 25 aspirins can put a person in a coma, 1 aspirin to get rid of a headache would be a bad thing to do.

I was wondering if frequently(every or every other day) jerking off stiffenes the tunica and might hinder the gains because the dick(tunica) is very well conditioned,trained and strong with jerking off,or whatsoever ?!

What do you think about this theory ?!

New threads about masturbation and gains are moved here, Electro_2001.

PubMed abstract 12697037 (full text pdf of the study here ):

We have demonstrated that sexual activity produces transient sympathoadrenal activation and a pronounced, long-lasting increase in prolactin in men and women. However, by analyzing endocrine alterations at 10-min intervals, a precise assignment of these changes to the pre-, peri- and postorgasmic periods was not possible. Thus, the current study aimed to accurately differentiate the endocrine response to sexual arousal and orgasm in men using an automatic blood collection technique with 2-min sampling intervals. Blood was drawn continuously before, during and after orgasm over a total period of 40 min in 10 healthy subjects and were compared with samples obtained under a control condition. Sexual activity induced transient increases of plasma epinephrine and norepinephrine levels during orgasm with a rapid decline thereafter. In contrast, prolactin levels increased immediately after orgasm and remained elevated throughout the experiment. Although oxytocin was acutely increased after orgasm, these changes were not consistent and did not reach statistical significance. Vasopressin, LH, FSH and testosterone plasma concentrations remained unaltered during sexual arousal and orgasm. These data confirm that prolactin is secreted after orgasm and, compared with oxytocin, seems to represent a more reliable and sustained marker for orgasm in man. The results further reinforce a role for prolactin either as a neuroendocrine reproductive reflex or as a feedback mechanism modulating dopaminergic systems in the central nervous system that are responsible for appetitive behavior.

PubMed abstract 11760788 :

This current study examined the effect of a 3-week period of sexual abstinence on the neuroendocrine response to masturbation-induced orgasm. Hormonal and cardiovascular parameters were examined in ten healthy adult men during sexual arousal and masturbation-induced orgasm. Blood was drawn continuously and cardiovascular parameters were constantly monitored. This procedure was conducted for each participant twice, both before and after a 3-week period of sexual abstinence. Plasma was subsequently analysed for concentrations of adrenaline, noradrenaline, cortisol, prolactin, luteinizing hormone and testosterone concentrations. Orgasm increased blood pressure, heart rate, plasma catecholamines and prolactin. These effects were observed both before and after sexual abstinence. In contrast, although plasma testosterone was unaltered by orgasm, higher testosterone concentrations were observed following the period of abstinence. These data demonstrate that acute abstinence does not change the neuroendocrine response to orgasm but does produce elevated levels of testosterone in males.

PubMed abstract 9695139 :

Data regarding the neuroendocrine response pattern to sexual arousal and orgasm in man are inconsistent. In this study, ten healthy male volunteers were continuously monitored for their cardiovascular and neuroendocrine response to sexual arousal and orgasm. Blood was continuously drawn before, during and after masturbation-induced orgasm and analyzed for plasma concentrations of adrenaline, noradrenaline, cortisol, luteinizing hormone (LH), follicle stimulating hormone (FSH), prolactin, growth hormone (GH), beta-endorphin and testosterone. Orgasm induced transient increases in heart rate, blood pressure and noradrenaline plasma levels. Prolactin plasma levels increased during orgasm and remained elevated 30 min after orgasm. In contrast, none of the other endocrine variables were significantly affected by sexual arousal and orgasm.

Thank you for your interest.
To make the discussion clear for everyone, my original question was this: “can you give a link to support your claim, which you were saying testesterone isn’t decreased as a result of ejaculation.”

I read the first pdf. The values are measured during a period of 40 minutes only.
What I had in my mind, was something like observing the testesterone levels of men, over a much longer period of time: days, and weeks. And record the testesterone levels, say, for someone who normally ejaculates occasionally, but who is asked to ejaculate daily, for a period of a few weeks. Not just immediately after a single orgasm.

The second study, actually supports my thesis. Take a look at this:

I think it’s pretty clear. This fact definitely supports my thesis: ejaculation depletes testesterone in long term.

How so?

During a period of abstinence the body produces more testosterone up to about the seventh day, then the levels no longer increase. How does this support your theory? Increasing levels during the time one does not ejaculate does not mean that they decrease when you do.

The way hormones work and interact is one of the most complicated things in biochemistry and physiology. I see where you’re coming from kaan but the ‘higher testosterone concentrations’ stated in the paper might carry a lot of significance or none at all. And it was not mentioned how much higher. 0.0001ng/L higher would still be higher but would that be statistically significant? Also a higher concentration means nothing if all the testosterone receptors in the penis are already maxed out.

I have to say I have no scientific evidence to support this, but I believe the increased testosterone as a result of forced abstinence is a way the body makes the man feel hornier to make him have sex. At a primitive level the body wants you to reproduce not abstain.

I think changes in testosterone levels have a more pronounced effect on libido followed by secondary sexual characteristics and then sexual functioning. Medical interventions to lower testosterone (anti-testosterones, surgical castration) are very effective in reducing libido while testosterone replacement is good for improving libido; other factors notwithstanding (depression, no interest in partner, etc). On the other hand, only a handful of cases of erectile dysfunction are due to low testosterone (Viagra does not work to increase testosterone, and giving testosterone does not help impotence in the vast majority of cases). The genital organs and muscles shrink and body hair diminishes with age due to the gradual decline in testosterone over decades so I am quite sure transient reductions in testosterone levels induced by more-frequent-than-usual orgasms would not have an effect on short to mid term gains, assuming testosterone does have a significant part to play in gains.

The experiment where the guy made himself ejaculate daily causing poor erections could be due to many other factors including prolactin secretion. There is preliminary evidence showing that drugs which inhibit prolactin secretion reduce the refractory period of males. Again, drawing from my hypothesis above linking forced abstinence with horniness and reproductive success, daily ejaculations may not be the best thing as sperm concentrations in semen would ultimately decline. These ‘forced ejaculations’ are not due to an increase in libido but a conscious effort of the male to engage in a sexual act. When there’s less interest, erection quality declines and thus the negative PIs.

I believe in listening to the body. If you feel horny then by all means have sex or masturbate to orgasm. Doing it when you’re not horny is probably a treat for the body (and good for maintaining a healthy relationship with your partner who might want sex when you’re not all that horny yourself). But forcing yourself to do it despite a lack of interest (due to ‘too much’ sex already) is probably overkill. Sex drive varies among individuals but in my opinion as long as you listen to your body’s sexual needs it shouldn’t significantly alter your existing testosterone levels.

That’s my opinion on testosterone anyway. Whether the transient increase in prolactin has an effect on gains I do not know…as I have no idea whether penile tissue responds to prolactin!

As I’ve already said, I’m not that interested in scientifically supporting my theory. I “know” it already.

You said testosterone isn’t lowered as a result of ejaculations, and gave the links. I examined them, and found out they were not what I was looking for.
I would like to see the initial and final testosterone levels of someone, who increases his frequency of ejaculations (from once a week to once a day ,for example), for a longer period of time: say for a few weeks. I would like to know the testosterone levels of Marco, for example (he did the masturbation experiment, you’ll remember) (initial and final values)
I believe his testoterone level will dramatically decrease. And you still haven’t proven that this’s false.

You can lead a horse to water but you can make him think.

What you seem to be doing is trying to cram a half-baked, unregulated experiment of self-imposed daily ejaculation (actually sometimes more often than that in Marco’s case) and by one, single person into your theory that Marco’s testosterone level plummeted. How the heck are you going to use his testosterone levels (which don’t exist) as proof that your thinking is correct? You do have to allow a little science in here to even discuss this.

Read what pazuzu said above. What he wrote is extremely sensible and does not involve any science.

Masturbate AT LEAST once a week, or your testosterone will start to drop.

Oh, and sperm isn’t “testosterone” Sperm is sperm, testosterone is a hormone. Sperm is just a gamete. Sperm is made of fructose, ascorbic acid, cholesterol, creatine, citric acid, lactic acid, nitrogen, vitamin B12, salt, and enzymes. It has other things in it to, but not testosterone. You can masturbate 5 times a day and it won’t drop, but your testicles will hurt resulting of producing sperm too much and lack of nutrients to make the sperm.

That reminds me of another thing, which we’ve talked about before: sperm production requires testosterone. When you ejaculate the body produces more testosterone to make new sperm cells to replace those “lost” through ejaculation. This is another reason why kaan’s theory won’t stand up.

I beleive that if you take about 50mg of zinc and vitimin “C” about 1000mg per day that your testosterone levels will remain, everytime you ejaculate you lose Zinc. The two together help block testosterone from converting over to estrogen in the liver by supressing an enzyme called aramotase.

As far as masterbeting 22 times aday that would I guess cause a size reduction.

Morally speaking from a the bibles point of view masterbation is not even mentioned in the Bible.I don’t know what the Koran says ab out, or other religious beliefs think about it.

As for me I was I was tested, according to the test I use both sides of my b rain at the same time, This can be a pain sometimes.

I would like to see a study aboutit to. And also how quick an estrogenic can shrink your dick as well.

Advocet has a good point, it probably causes alot of tissue damage like over jelking or over hanging etc etc.

Stimulation of the penis does produce more testosterone but your du ck s have to be linecd up testosterone cannogt efectively do it’s job w/o vitimin “C” and zinc.