Have you hit a PLATEAU?

You confused me for a minute there ;)

I set goals and measure in 1/8th increments (for example, when I was 7.57” I didn’t count the last 0.07 and so still considered myself to be 7 & 4/8th” instead of 7 & 9/16th”).

I find that with my own gain-rate, and propensity for temporary loss of both commitment and length gains, any increase less than 1/8th shouldn’t really be trusted.

Also— thinking in terms like 2/8th” keeps me more motivated than thinking of it as one quarter inch

I guess the habit’s just stuck.

Mr.Fantastic, I don’t think you’ll receive any flames here. Your routine and gains contribute a lot to this thread; I feel they pinpoint a secondary approach to avoiding a plateau (opposed to IPR and decon breaks, it seems you have followed a systematic progressive overload approach). If I recall, your hanging routine is a lot like Bib’s. He pretty much hanged everyday, for about 6-8 hours a day — and sometimes more.

It’s funny that you mention penis enlargement surgery: perhaps, it would seem, that men really don’t gain all that much through the actual surgery. Rather, perhaps it’s the post-8-hour hanging process that allows them to gain (all speculation, of course). I’ll have to look into this and find a post-op hanging routine… I can’t recall there one being online, so I might just have to set up an appointment with a surgery doctor.

Hey, like I said, going for length has definily worked for you… I think that’s the great thing (and the worst thing) about PE, bodybuilding, etc… Everyone is different, so everyone has a power of choice…Anyway, hopefully you can obtain girth just as easy ;) What is your methods of choice? Pumping and clamping?

I really don’t think you’re not average. Rather, I think a lot of PEers would be wise to follow in your footsteps. Here’s the problem, though: when a guy gets a hold of your routine, he’s automatically going to try to get to your max weight/reps/time. It’s just the nature of man — competitiveness. Gotta max out.

Nevertheless, I’m curious, what was your very first hanging routine like? I like the routine you have now, and I can see how it works for you. But my natural instincts tell me there had to me some sort of conditioning. How did your penis to where it is today; I think the answer to this question, is the real benefit to newbies.

peforeal,

And your girth gains are definitely enviable. 2.5” girth gains…

I’m curious, is your routine somewhere on the forum?

remek,

Here’s the original thread I did a couple of years ago on my routine summary which involves pumping, jelqing, some clamping, etc.
PEFOREAL’S CURRENT ROUTINE (May 2003)

I will definitely attribute most of my girth gains to being a consistent pumper starting in 2001 as a mistake-prone and naive newbie. I started out pumping in a 1.75" inside diameter cylinder and could barely get my dick to touch the sides. It took time but after awhile I gradually packed the 1.75" and moved up to a 2.00", and now I use my 2.25" to pump my dick only at least 5 times a week. I’ve been at an erect length plateau of 7.50" for over 2 years and have ventured into hanging but just haven’t had the time to commit to the required extended hours. Pumping is easy to me, comfortable and gets immediate temporary results and permanent results over time. I haven’t plateaued in making girth gains yet. I’m concentrating on making the upper half of my dick thicker to get more even with the lower half of my shaft.

Peforeal

It’s funny that you mention penis enlargement surgery: perhaps, it would seem, that men really don’t gain all that much through the actual surgery. Rather, perhaps it’s the post-8-hour hanging process that allows them to gain (all speculation, of course).> remek

Saw a PE surgeon on some TV show the other day (late night crap, anyone in UK see it?). He was selling a noose-type ADS for $500, and insisting it was vital (post-surgery). Now, this places almost no stress on the cut ligaments (obviously it’s stretching the tunica).

Anyway, bit off topic but just pointing out how clueless some of these unscrupulous hacks are.

remek,

So is it safe to say that you think sex or masturbation is somewhat stressful to the penis?

If so, on the positive side, strategically scheduled sex or masturbation could assist in a PE routine.

Tivase,

Yes, I believe an erection is PE. Albiet, I think it is a very light PE. IOW, if you were to rate PE on a scale 1 to 10, then doing erect bends while clamping and hanging (simultaneously) would be a 10. An erection would be more like a 1, on my scale. Ballooning for prolonged periods of time: maybe a 2-2.5.

I suppose how stressful an erection is on the penis depends on the individual — and on the circumstance. If you’re asking if I believe sex or masturbation is bad for gains, I would have to say probably not. Ejaculation, on the other hand, (at the wrong times) is up in the air; it may or may not be bad for gains. Nevertheless, many men gain while still ejaculating.

There have been a few accounts of men gaining from ballooning in combination with a PE routine. I’m sure it probably helps. In fact, some sites suggest strictly ballooning for penis enlargement.

Thanks for the link peforeal, I’ll check it out.

I began writing a response but it turned into an essay (I’m still working on it).

I’m writing basic instructions, tips and guidelines on hanging with low weights, since it seems to me that if I post all the details of the path I took I’ll just be promoting bad habits and reckless PE — there’s a little info. on my ‘pe journey’ below (the basic info. re. the path I took) but I’m going to post again with tips and guidelines once I’ve managed to draw everything together.

Since I seem to be the only guy (or one of the only guys) to have made good gains with low weights it seems the information I’m able to give could be valuable.

After a lot of wrekless hanging experiments and partly as a result of an argument in another thread (thanks guys for knocking some sense into me) I eventually chose Bib’s routine as a basic model for my own routine— I figured if he could make such good gains hanging everyday then I should be able to too, and since I had the time it seemed to make sense to do so.

It seems to me that anyone hanging for the amount of time the surgeons recommend after PE surgery is going to make similar kinds of gains regardless of whether or not they have their suspensory ligament cut.

Having said that I’ve not looked too closely into the surgery (it would be interesting to know more about it), but it just doesn’t seem logical to me— I’d rather spend the money on an extended break so that I could spend every day hanging and avoid the operation. So you have to hang an extra couple of months to make up for the gains you would have had if your suspensory ligament had been cut— I don’t think that’s such a big deal given that you avoid a surgical procedure and get to keep your suspensory lig intact.

If someone has a link, I’d like to know more about the surgery. Do you know how many days, weeks, months etc. they recommend hanging after surgery? I don’t have a lot of information on the topic. All I know is having to hang for eight hours a day is going to give more or less anyone length gains provided they spend enough consecutive days hanging.

Clamping behind the balls with a TheraP wrist wrap and Turn-key clamp (for clamping at the base of the penis I’d definitely recommend an Air-clamp. I have one of monty’s long Air-clamps but I’ve not yet thoroughly tested it through a full behind the balls clamping cycle (the cursory results were excellent, but as I say I’ve not tested it through the full behind the balls cycle, but for base of Penis clamping the Air-clamp is the way to go). I also have a pump that I’ve been using to try and increase my base girth but I’ve stopped using it since it was interfering with my hanging routine and with measuring and was pretty time consuming considering the gains are probably not permanent.

I want all the effort I make to be towards permanent gains and I’m not totally convinced that pumping offers that much permanency, which makes it seem to me like a lot of work for a limited return. While there’s an argument for it having the same effect as clamping (through negative pressure rather than positive pressure) the lymph build-up relaxes the pressure quite quickly and gives a lot of swelling that can sometimes linger long enough to hinder hanging.

I plan to clamp behind the balls to engorge as much of the shaft as possible, although I think there might be a benefit to having more of the girth a little further up (I’ve read that most gains occur under the clamp, if someone can shed more light on that, please do chime in).

I think you’re probably right. I was like that and I’m sure there are plenty more like that out there— maybe I shouldn’t have posted my hanging times. Hopefully anyone trying to match them will have the presence of mind to discontinue hanging before they become numb. Those long hang times are basically a result of a year and a half of testing different weights and hanging approaches. If they’re to be reached they have to be reached gradually as a result of the process and not forced in to a routine as part of a process (In the first few months of hanging I tried to force myself to go twenty minutes even when I was experiencing numbness. It lead to me spending several periods of protracted numbness (over two to three days). If the sensation hadn’t come back I’d have been left with a dead pecker, and that’s no joke— this happened because I tried to force the weight. Of course now I know it would have been better for me to just lower the weight so that I could loosen the hanger— I would still have made the same gains because I still would have been hitting my maximum gain-rate, I just would have done so with a lot less pain and discomfort and a much much less risk (looking back I was very reckless and I think maybe I was lucky the sensation came back at all— I think my credo with regards to hanging should be “Do as I say, not as I have done”. Hopefully anyone foolhardy enough to try hanging for those lengths of time without appropriate experience and conditioning will realise sooner rather than later that it’s a bad idea, but having said that there are always going to be — pardon the oxymoron — hardheaded numbskulls out there who are probably going to do it anyway — my advice is: Don’t.

I’m not sure it’ll be of much benefit. When I first started I didn’t have enough experience to know that I should have patience, take it slowly and be persistent, since it was only much later that the whole “maximum-gain-rate” concept really occurred to me (it’s not something I’ve ever heard discussed at thundersplace). Basically I started with a Penimaster and increased the tension as quickly as I could until I could wear it at the highest tension (again I’d recommend taking it slowly and measuring regularly to see if and when gains start to slow (maybe this period could be used to establish what the individual’s maximum-gain-rate actually is, although newbie gains are reputedly always much faster than subsequent length gains)). At the point at which I could wear the Penimaster at its highest tension I switched to a BibHanger and immediately started hanging BTC. Shortly after that I switched to hanging SD since my LOT seemed to actually improve through BTC hanging, which suggested the LOT guidelines probably weren’t going to work for me. I’ve been hanging SD ever since (I’ve not felt the need to hit other angles since I get a great stretch hanging SD (so I don’t really need the divide and conquer approach)).

Shorty after getting used to hanging I began trying to hang heavier weights than I could barely stand to hang and later still I went through a stage where I was trying to increase my weights as fast as I possibly could; literally trying to condition my unit to support more wight so that I could get to my idea of the “ideal weight” (needless to say, I now think fast weight increase to hit an ‘ideal weight’ is a total mistake— weight increases should be made very gradually with a view to maintaining your maximum-gain-rate. If you hit your maximum-gain-rate (MGR) hanging 11lbs, why try and hang 25lbs the next day? Attempting to do so will probably just create problems for you and dramatically increase your risk of injury. It may even be what causes the plateau and dried up length gains due to the effect is has on the collagen. Bib reached incredibly heavy weights, but only got to those weights through slow, incremental increases made to maintain his gain-rate, and I’m pretty sure Bib didn’t’ hit what we now think of as a plateau— he just kept on gradually increasing the weight and kept on gaining as a result).

It was during the time I was trying to add weight as fast as possible that I discovered I wasn’t able to hang more than 3 to 3.5 kg for more than two or three sets (but that might be because I tried to increase my weights too quickly, plus I don’t jelq so I’m not conditioned for extreme pressure build-up at the head). I was trying to add one to two pounds a week and all I succeeded in doing was causing myself a lot of pain and some minor injuries (broken blood vessels in the skin around the head due to pressure build-up). If I’d carried on that way I probably would have injured myself, which is why I think it’s so important to follow the guidelines.

I’m still writing the best advice and guidelines I have to offer. I have to draw a few more threads together to finish it off, but I’ll try and post it within the next day or so. It’s the best I can do with regards helping the newbies, since my pe history is a catalogue of trial and error, reckless PE and quite dangerous mistakes. Not something I’d like to offer as a model for success.

My best, fastest and most consistent gains have been made using moderation, and the technique I’m currently writing up to post to the forum.

Mr. Fantastic,

Isn’t it recommended to jelq, at least lightly, to restore circulation after hanging?

But I suppose if the purpose is to restore circulation, other methods of achieving that, like maybe pumping or edging, might be just as useful. What do you do, if anything, to restore circulation?

It is recommended to jelq between hanging sets since jelqing is probably the best way to restore circulation to the penis. What I mean is I don’t practice extended jelqing specifically for length gains— I didn’t ever do a manual routine.

I didn’t follow the newbie routine, but I recommend that everybody starting out does so because it’s the best way to gain when you first start out, and it conditions you for future exercises that could very well damage you if you’re not conditioned for them (there’s a good chance that I probably could hang heavier (if I wanted to) if I were to jelq more, but personally I’ve not found jelqing to be necessary for length gains). The newbie routine is pretty much essential, which is why it’s so widely and strongly recommended.

The reason I never practiced the newbie routine was that I ordered a Penimaster as soon as I’d read enough at thundersplace to convince me that gains are possible, so that I could start stretching a.s.a.p. while I researched the topic further. I read about the newbie routine and it seemed since I was using an ADS more or less as much as I possibly could it probably wouldn’t be necessary to do stretches, and since I personally didn’t want to do any girth work until I’d hit my length goals I thought I probably didn’t need to jelq, but jelqing probably does go some way towards preparing you for hanging, so it’s good in that respect also. Also, at the time I started PE I was recovering from an illness that had left me physically weakened and made it very difficult for me to jelq for even five minutes— partly why most of the exercises I do involve devices instead of physical effort (I’m a lot better now and a lot stronger, with much more stamina, but I’ve found I can make all the gains I need through hanging rather than through manual exercises).

Pumping and edging are good for restoring circulation, but it can be difficult to do between every set. If it’s something you’re capable of doing and/or something you prefer to do then by all means pump or edge (although I personally believe that any exercises that increases girth might very possibly utilise the micro-tears made through hanging and in so doing reduce length gains, but that’s just a theory) but jelqing and squeezes are probably the easiest exercises for restoring circulation between sets, with jelqing probably being the most effective.

Hey, no worries! Truly a great post, with a lot of good information. I can’t wait to see the technique you’re referring to. Please post a link to the thread in here, once you get it up.

I presume so, too. Here is a link that talks a little bit about PE surgery: http://www.altp enis.com/penis_ … _surgery.shtml; I’m not sure how accurate the facts are. Nevertheless, my research tells me that all PE surgeons do it differently, and in fact there are new types of surgery coming up in the recent years. Nevertheless, I don’t think PE surgery is quite there yet — and IMO, natural PE is still the safest, most effective, most fun, and least expensive route to go with at the time.

peforeal has made some great gains (2.5 inches in girth) with a pumping/jelqing combination routine. You might want to check out his old routine here: /forum/showthre … 3&page=3&pp=15;

Nevertheless, clamping has worked for many… Including Big Girtha (who also gained around 2 inches in girth). Although, I theorize that Big Girtha made such great gains with clamping because he hanged in between clamp sets. Check out BG’s old routine here: Big Girtha’s routine for girth and flaccid hang

Either way, good luck. Hopefully the two above threads will help you pick a routine.

No, no, I don’t think ignorance is bliss in this case. I just think it’s our duty — as veterans, or whatever — to let the beginners know: hey, don't rush into this; don't try to get to the "ideal weight" … it doesn't work that way. Like all big changes, PE takes baby steps — not giant leaps.

Nevertheless, I’m actually surprised that you didn’t hit a plateau or cause a big injury with the routine you described. I’m glad that you eventually realized that the best gains don’t happen that way. Anyway, I’m curious, so, how early into your routine was it that you decided to ride out your MGR, and slowly add more weight/reps?

Also, you say your best gains take place when you used moderation. Did you make any gains when you were rushing for the "ideal" weight?

Best regards, and again, great post!
remek

I was planning on posting to this thread again in more detail re. the above post after posting my “ultimate summary of theories, tips and suggestions for hanging”, but writing it has taken a little longer than I’d anticipated since it’s kind of turning into my “ultimate contribution” to the PE community (based on both my experience and everything I’ve learned). It’s pretty simple— just a new approach and a new way of looking at things, such as focusing on maximum gain-rate rather than weight etc., but drawing it all together into a comprehensive and concise guideline is taking longer than I’d expected it to (I seem to be suffering quite extensive scope creep (including the probably addition of guidelines on the correct way of measuring)).

I’ll definitely be sure to do so, although after all the time I’ve spent talking about it I’m worried it’s going to be a bit of an anticlimax— the basic idea is really very simple. It’s really just an alternative approach..

Plus— thanks for the links— I’ve not had time to check them out due to the fact that I’ve been working at pulling together the guidelines, but I will do as soon as I’m able.

I’ve been pretty reckless, but I’ve always paid close attention to the sensations and listened to my body for cues as to what I should and shouldn’t do and when to stop. Letting myself get numb was probably the most stupid thing I did— I’m probably lucky I didn’t do myself serious permanent damage.

I did take a deconditioning break, which might go some way towards explaining my continuous gains, but I was still making good gains before I took it. I only really took it because I thought it might increase the speed at which I was gaining (plus I had a little op to tidy up my circ-scar, so I was going to have to spend a little time away from PE anyway).

It was about the time I realised I wasn’t able to hang any more than 3kg for more than three sets. It was then that I thought since I couldn’t hang heavy I’d better hang for longer and that I’d best start putting in the hours while I still had the time to do so.

Yes, I did gain, but not as consistently as I have since, I think basically because I was hanging in stops and starts due to the fact that I was basically trying to hang too heavy a weight. I’d hang a few sets one day but be too fatigued to hang the next day, then I read somewhere that Bib was quoted as saying that if you can’t hang every day don’t bother hanging, which made me re-think my approach. I hated doing it, but I dropped the weight and increased the time spent hanging and I’ve not looked back. Dropping the weight allowed me to hang consistently, which in turn gave me consistent gains, which allowed me to establish my gain-rate. It was establishing my gain rate that lead me to try and fine tune my routine and really started me to question exactly what the average maximum gain rate might be. From there it’s just a very short logical step to realising you should really only hang as much weight as you need to to achieve your own maximum gain-rate —there are no shortcuts: making gains takes time and you probably won’t be able to exceed the maximum gain-rate regardless of whether you hang 50lbs, 100lbs or 1000lbs. Patience, consistancy and keeping good records are the key to successful gains and that’s the basis of the method I’m outlining. It’s a very simple method, but it’s a powerful method.

Just noticed you created your thread. I’m going to go have a look at it. Thanks for your contribution to the forum, Mr.F.

Spoken with true words of wisdom… Perhaps this is the reason your one of the few to not hit a plateau?

No worries— hoping it helps :up:

You’re making me blush lol :p

To be honest I really couldn’t say for certain, but my intuition tells me it’s the high stress exercises that might cause the plateaus (and I think a lot of people who’ve posted to the forums since I’ve been a member have probably suspected that to be the case also (it’s where I picked the idea up))— if it really is the case, maybe it’s because of physiological reactions to higher stress or maybe it’s just because by going straight to heavy weights the guys are leaving themselves no option for increasing weight once the gains dry up.