Need some advice on my routine

Big J,

the question is:

was it stupid to do erect/almost erect bends, or;

was it stupid to do them with the amount of force (to early?) you did?

/Pan, the beliver in controled heavy duty PE!

This is getting interesting!

pan:

I was doing a high pressure exercise i kind of invented myself and i think the combination of what i was doing and doing it to early was the problem (both were stupid is the answer). I have no doubt that heavy duty stuff is possible without damage but it certainly is a possibility.

I lift weights as well as pe and my weights routine is certainly heavy duty. The point with heavy duty is that if you get injured doing an exercise lightly you don’t injure yourself too much - but do it heavy duty!!! I ruptured my whole shoulder in the gym last year and had to take 4 months off and lose a stone and a quarter (17-18 lbs). I didn’t enjoy that. if i had been using lighter weights i’ve no doubt that if the injury had still happened it wouldn’t have been so bad.
Added to this my shoulder is never going to be as good as it was and i’ve had to factor this in when doing my workouts now. (Please nobody jump in here to tell me the penis isn’t a muscle).

the point is you only get one dick and one attempt to make it bigger. I realised when i was waiting for mine to heal that if that had been a pe stopping injury (ie i could never pe again) i would have been devastated.

So i will probably leave the erect bending for now, but you guys go on ahead.

NB newbies, do NOT even think about doing erect bending. The guys who are doing it are vets.

BigJ, I hear you and I understand you.

—NB newbies, do NOT even think about doing erect bending. The guys who are doing it are vets.—

Well thats the most important thing about these exercises and this subject, this is NOTHING a newbie should even consider.

Right on there BigJ!

But… we can´t ignore (IMO) that this actually works wonders for many vets, so we have to talk about it, not pretend it doesn´t exist or doesn´t work.

/Pan

Hope it helps guys! Enjoy.

When you guys are referring to erect bends, are you basically pulling down, or to the sides? Or are you actually bending it midshaft? I would think that bending it midshaft is a moronic idea, but stretching the base while erect either by pulling to the sides or pushing down seems like it might be reasonably safe. I have been doing this sort of thing for a little while, then again I am suffering from mild ED right now. So I may not be the best person to say its safe! By the way, twatT, you never told me what your gains were.

Hey guys,

Can we turn down the burners a little bit on this? Make it a discussion without the jabs??

Pan,

Who are the vets that these erect bends are working wonders for? Has anyone actually reported a gain from these full erect bends? I am referring to the type of exercise that DLD has posted a picture of on PE Forums. How many guys are currently posting that they are doing these erect bends?

Bogova,

It´s not that you bend it in the middle like you would snap a branch. You get a hard on (the way I do it) grab the base ok grip. “Prime” the dick = let the dick get a little soft where your ok grip is, and also (of course) on the body side of the dick.

NOW… you take the other hand and grab around the top most 2” of the dick and bend it CAREFUL like a horshoe or something like that. As the erection goes down you bend it more until it is almost 180degrees. First it is just maybe 10-20 degrees.

This feels GOOD in my dick and I did this ten years ago with morning woods. Actually I had my girls doing it :-)
This produced my first 1/2” length gain.

It feels like getting up from the bed and raising you arms to the roof if you know what I mean.

First I actually just pushed the dick to the side without bending it, as the time goes your ligs get more flexible and you need more for it to work, hence the “horseshoe-bend”.

Thunder,

I have gained good with variations of these exercises, jelqing gives me nothing. There are other at the other board that have gained as well. Other PE sites have this exercises (and report major gains from it), don´t remember which but I have visited a couple. A friend of mine gained 1/2” in two weeks on this.

It´s simply great and doesnt stress the dick as much as jeqing.
I mean it stresses growth, but do not stress the nerves that gives you pleasure if you know what I mean. You dont get numb like when the workouts are based on jelqing.

I stopped this exercises for a while some time ago, because everyone told it was soooo dangerous. I was at Reeces site and followed that program = no gain and small injurys. After a long time realised I needed something more to gain and got back to “heavy duty” and now I´m gaining again and have better feelings in my dick, better hard ons.

/Pan

I lost sensativity doing erect bending to fix a rather bad downward curve. Maybe it was for the best since i would have ended up fucking up my dick far worse and not being able to repair it. I figure you should just jelq against any sort of bend or do squeezes and bend slightly against the curve adn NOT ERECT. i jelqed with too much pressure once and had a load of problems so i wouldnt even experiment with it. I figure going longer with less intensity is better than short and intense just because you can really mess shit up if you put all the intensity into a shorter period of time.

>I’ve seen this recommended against time after time in place after place, and I followed the dogma, until recent experience forced me to ask “Why”?<

I am going to try to do something I am not very good at. That is, explaining this situation in as simplistic of terms as possible. First, I am not very good at explaining. Second, this stuff is really hard to do without formulas. Here goes anyway.

This is a new term I am going to use: Two force exercises. This not only applies to the procedures in question, but also to any PE technique that uses two separate stresses, applied at the same time.

You see, from a physics standpoint, that is the problem. If you have one force exerted on the tissues of the penis, that force can be fairly easily monitored in most situations. When a second force is added, the dynamics change completely, unless the new force is in exactly the same direction, which is simply additive.

Let’s look at some examples of two forces applied to an object. The simplest is probably a sheet of paper. If you grasp the paper at each end and pull, it is hard to break or tear. But if you grasp the same edge with both hands, pull in opposite directions and apart, the paper tears easily. Two forces. Another; grab a cucumber at each end and pull very hard. Almost impossible to create a break. Use the same pulling force, but then add a second force, bending the cucumber a little, and it will snap easily.

Another example is the old balloon analogy. With no air within the balloon, no lateral or longitudinal forces, you can pull fairly hard with no breaks. If you blow the balloon up, filling it with air, expanding the lateral and longitudinal bonds, about any ADDITIONAL force will rupture the balloon.

One more. If you attempt to cut Theraband with scissors, holding it loosely in your hand, the Theraband tends to force the blades of the scissors apart, and it is very hard to shear. Now, stretch the Theraband a little, and try to cut it. It becomes very easy. Two forces.

All of this is simple physics. When two forces are applied to an object, at different angles in the three-dimensional plane, the shearing or tearing force increases EXPONENTIALLY! Usually before you know it. The greater the difference in angles, the greater the increase in shearing or tearing force. The question becomes, how great are each of the two forces, and as each force is increased, how much does the TOTAL force increase.

One of the PE exercises that could be considered two force is V stretches. Where you have a longitudinal force, pulling the penis out, then a second force in the middle of the penis pushing down. However, as long as the penis is flaccid, this second force is mostly additive as relates to the tunica. The downward force simply adds more stress to the longitudinal bonds. Now if the penis were erect, it might be a different story.

See, the simple act of filling the internal chambers with blood is a pressure force. This pressure extends the lateral and longitudinal bonds of the tunica. A normal erection usually does not put any great strain on these bonds. Only when the pressure is raised by using manual techniques are the bonds stressed. An example would be Ulis. But the extra stresses applied to the tunica are additive.

Now, lets look at what would happen to the erection if a twist were added. The erection pressure force has extended the bonds in all directions. If you begin to twist the penis, at any point, adding the second force, what happens? The longitudinal bonds receive an exponential stress, much greater than the erection pressure.

So, that is the problem with two force exercises. The ability to monitor and regulate the exponentially increasing, cumulative amount of stress is very hard to do. Depending upon the condition of the tissues of the tunica throughout, allowing for any weak spots, the unknown amounts of stress, etc, at some point in time, it is easy to see how a major failure could occur. Which brings up the final point.

These exercises generally affect the tunica. I do not know of any two-force techniques, which affect the ligs. While any injury is a concern, an injury to the ligs is generally much more forgiving than an injury to the tunica. While both are connective tissue, the tunica is much tougher, but also much more brittle, and also much harder to heal.

That is because it encapsulates the blood chambers and is the countering force to the blood pressure, which produces an erection. Therefore, any injury to the tunica is very hard to heal by itself. Each time you have an erection, the tunica would have additional force applied to the injury. It would be like walking on a broken leg with no cast. Therefore, a tear in the tunica usually requires surgery to close the tear with stitches. Then, it requires an extended rest period. As the tunica heals, the body lays down plaque in the tear area, which constricts the tissues and causes the bend usually associated with peyronies disease.

So, the forces unknown, hard to regulate tunica forces that come about with two force techniques could cause a major injury to the tunica. The key word is major. Not like spots or fluid buildup, etc. Major injuries. You do not get a second chance. You have to deal with the consequences from that point forward.

I am sorry that I did not get into these threads earlier. I simply do not have the time to read every post. Hell, I only scan the ones I open. While I can see a discussion of these things, this is simply not the direction I would like to see Peforums go. One major injury could easily be the end of the forums. Further, who wants to be the cause of someone else, newbie or vet becoming permanently injured? The thing is, even with all the warnings in the world, it is still EXPONENTIEALLY easier to become injured with two force exercises.

>RB. Agreed. I’ve had a few mishaps like that, fortunately no fracturing occurred, nor permanent damage, but it sure hurt like a bitch.<

I assume you are writing about mishaps during sex. However, the same thing can occur with two forces. Except it would be a planned thing. Not good either way.

Bigger

Hobby,
Once again hobby, you’ve already done the research! Do you doubt your own research? You ask for proof but it’s already been provided and yet you still refuse believe! You tell me to get a doctor’s opinion, but then say that this won’t make a difference either! :rofl: What’s the point, hobby? All the documented evidence provided so far supports my case. Where’s your evidence hobby? So far I’ve only heard subjective opinion and some fairly vague and unreliable anecdotes.

BTW, members of the board,
I have emailed 7 prominent urologists/phalloplasty surgeons from across the USA, Canada and UK asking their opinions of erect bending and erect exercises. I’m hoping to get at least one reply. I’ve also invited them to visit our board and participate if they wish. These are very distinguished men at the top of their field and I trust you will accord them every courtesy - I know you all will! ;) Except hobby ……….. because he doesn’t necessarily believe doctors! :chuckle:

Hobby, by the time I’m finished, I think you’re going to need more than just one Guinness Stout! ;)

Pan,
Nice to see you over here!
Firstly, no one has called you a liar - the only person I’ve called a liar is the guy who claimed 3/4” growth in a week, and that accusation still stands! However, your claims are unreliable. You state that your length growth is 1.5” - 2” ……. hold on a minute, there’s a 25% discrepancy there! And if you don’t think that’s much, just ask a guy who’s had to work a year to gain 0.5”. So either your measuring skills aren’t up to standard and consistent, or your size fluctuates in which case it can’t be considered genuine growth. Either way, it shows that your statistics are unreliable.
But wait there’s more! …….
You also claim that this growth was mostly due to erect exercises …….. mostly?!! Unfortunately, “mostly” also makes your claims unreliable. In order to gauge the true effectiveness of any exercise you shouldn’t combine it with others - it must be done alone to conclusively prove that it works. That’s one of the main failings of the erect exercises experiment on PE Forums - everybody is doing so many things, it is impossible to tell what’s working and what’s not. For all we know (and you for that matter) erect exercises may just be dangerous worthless crock! You have not one scrap of reliable evidence to show that they work at all. On the other hand, I have documented evidence, kindly provided by hobby, (thank you hobby! ;) ) which states that erect bending is extremely dangerous.
One other issue I’m going to take to task. You stated “you give false facts about peole(sic) on the other board to deffend(sic) your opinion”. If you’re going to throw around accusations like that, you’d better have some damn good evidence to back it up………… I’m waiting! :mad:

lil1 :flame:

So far I've only heard subjective opinion and some fairly vague and unreliable anecdotes.

So have I. The links I provided do not support either of our opinions. They merely show that, among other more common causes, “trauma” may also cause Peyronie’s. As I’ve written several times before, it does not necessarily follow that careful manual erect bending constitutes “trauma” sufficient to cause Peyronie’s.

:horse:

BTW, members of the board,
I have emailed 7 prominent urologists/phalloplasty surgeons from across the USA, Canada and UK asking their opinions of erect bending and erect exercises. I'm hoping to get at least one reply. I've also invited them to visit our board and participate if they wish. These are very distinguished men at the top of their field and I trust you will accord them every courtesy - I know you all will! ;)

Excellent idea. But, are they knowledgeable and/or supportive of manual PE techniques in general? In any case, the answers should be interesting. Why haven’t we asked them before about non-surgical PE? Maybe one or more will get interested enough to join in future discussions.

Except hobby ……….. because he doesn't necessarily believe doctors! :chuckle:

Let’s not let this discussion devolve into ad hominem garbage, or a hobby v. lil kind of thing. I respect you, and I hope you feel the same. If you had trusted every word that came from the lips of urologists, you wouldn’t have deferred your scheduled surgery and tried non-surgical PE. I gather you at least somewhat share my skepticism regarding the opinion of just any doctor you care to pull out of the phone book.

lil,

when you mentioned “that” guy over there you also mentioned a group of people (small like three or four or something) and the “questionablety” if these people were to believed in, didn´t you? I feel as a part of that small group of long time heavy duty PEer.

My gains are 1.5”-2” dating TEN years or so back. I didnt measure then or don´t remember the numbers.
I think I was 6” at 18-20. Now I´m 8”.
I AM RELIABLE, sure my length fluctuates some, less than 1/2” and of course depends on level of “horney-ness” and for how long time I have the erection. Fucking for two hours sure max it out more than a lunchtime 3 minutes hardon.

My first 1/2” or so WAS ESCLUSIVELY ERECT “BENDING”. That was a long time ago but have a good woody and GENTLY push the dick towards the hips (dick being straight) and also down between the legs, produced my first gains. I did it primarily cause it felt SOOOO god, like a morning stretch. I read some in a taoist book and thought that the length I gained was all I could get, thought it wasnt really “growth” but just stretching out the ligs. I was a elite martial artist back then and had very good knowledge about the body and was also VERY much in tune with my body.

A couple of years later I gained a small amount of girth (1/10” or so) and 1/4”-1/2” from pumping on and off, but didn´t believe I could get more than that, so practically stopped it.

1.5 years ago I decided to get more gains, begun to feel it was possible and found these sites on the net where they claimed 2” or more ws possible to gain.
I suddenly realised that more force to the dick than what I have been giving it before should do the trick. I ´begun a couple of weeks of erect squeezes and flaccid stretching and gained about 1/2” L x 1/2” G in three weeks. I the ngined a little more but joined a site the same time (penilfitness) where they all told me that it was dangerouse and that 60-70% “erect” jelqing was the key to safe enlargement. Well…. they should now so I did that mostly for long time (maybe 1/2 year) and NOTHING on several different routines. Then last summer I begun to exercise with power squeezes again, and Pansqueezes, and some “erect” bending and “squeezejelqbendinghybrides” about 90% erect or so. I did 2-3 workouts a day, and suddenly I started to gain some more, minor lenght and I think 1/4” G.

Tried for a long time if “less is more” could be something, just working out a couple of times a week, nothing happened and I did again starting to think my limit was reached. Been on a plateu
for long time but in the beginning of august I again decided that more was possible if the workouts was intense and done often. Was thinking about the works of mr bib. As long as the dick isn´t sore just work it much and often, if it´s sore rest until it´s not sure. Use relatively much force when doing the exercises AS LONG AS IT DOESNT FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE OR PAIN. Been doing VERY intense powersqueezes, Pan squeezes and “horseshoes” with a couple of pumping sessions in between to rest my hands.
Result after this august = 1/4” girth and minor length. Girth is what I aim most for. Now I´m 8” (alittle more some days)x 6”.

My gains has come during intense periods of MAINLY 80-95% erect exercises, thats it, no matter if you believe it or not.
As soon as I take it more easy, the gains dissapere.

So erect exercises is NOT dangerouse crock as you put it, but for me a SAFE way to enlarge my penis. It also makes my dick less sore than jelqing and flaccid stretching, which means I have BETTER feelings in the dick as well as BETTER ERECTIONS!!!!!!!

Guys who hurt themselfs (IMO) does it no matter which exercise choosen, they dont have the patience to gradually increase the force, and probably in bad tune with their bodys as well.

BTW I have documented evidence that driving a car is extremly dangerouse.
While erect exercises aren’t for newbies, there is a current thread on PE Forums in which several PE vets report good gains and/or good workouts from erect bending.

””“”If I remember correctly, aren’t these “vets” the same ones who claimed a 3/4” gain in 1 week from erect stretches? Seriously hobby, I think these claims of miraculous growth need to be taken with a bag of salt! If you do some detective work you’ll find that the two principal protagonists, who have always bounced off each other, arrived on the scene about the same time - this is not a good sign. While it may not be the case, it’s an old troll trick - two of them will be in leagues to create a fantastic story with the sole intent of fooling people. Sometimes it’s harmless and entertaining - other times, such as this, it can be downright dangerous! We try to keep that sort of thing to a minimum here by actively discouraging it whenever we find it. Always remember, talk is cheap. Like you, I like facts! “”“”

Speaks for itself IMO!

Who of “those vets” that talk about these exercises, have claimed 3/4” in a week?
Who are you refering to when you mention “vets”?
Would that be DLD,RB,jj and Pan?

To be honest (which I try to be as much as I dare :-) I think you are narrowminded and have attitudes, you proabably will be pissed for me saying that but…. well well….

Please realize that english is not “my” language and sometimes I have a hard time getting the words down right.
Also my measurments are in cm, so I have to translate as I write this, they are not exact but very close. I also dont keep a track, I know when something works anyway.

/Pan,
a PE vet that only get gains when doing 80-90% erect exercises.

” The links I provided do not support either of our opinions. “
Hobby, you are flogging a dead horse! As I (and many others) keep trying to tell you, but you refuse to listen, (it seems you are more intent on winning a debate through obstinance rather than reason), erect bending is dangerous and can cause Peyronies Disease. All the documentary evidence submitted so far confirms this and you cannot deny that.

“But, are they knowledgeable and/or supportive of manual PE techniques in general.”
Isn’t this exactly what I said you’d do in my last post?! Even if I get some of the most respected and distinguished urologists on the planet to contribute, you’ll still question their veracity. FYI, after phalloplasty surgery the patient is required to undertake a strict PE routine which consists of hanging and/or manual stretching. I haven’t found a phalloplasty surgeon yet who doesn’t specify this as essential. This usually is to be performed for 6 months. The reason for this is to inhibit retraction through scarring and the possible reattachment of the suspensory ligament to the pubic bone and also to build on surgical gains. Phalloplasty surgeons have known about the value of nonsurgical PE for quite a while - infact some of them openly endorse PE devices. Of course they know about PE - it’s all based on traction which is a medical principle that has been used for centuries.

“If you had trusted every word that came from the lips of urologists, you wouldn’t have deferred your scheduled surgery and tried non-surgical PE.”
I like the way you change the subject when you see an inescapable corner looming! ;) Phalloplasty surgery would have cost me over AU$20K and I’d have to hang for 6 months anyway. So I decided to save myself the money and sidestep the surgeon and see what would happen if I just hung - I was going to have to do it anyway so at worst it would be practice! The result was about 2” growth in 6 months, no scars or injuries and it cost me less than $200. It’s probably about the same as I would have gained through surgery. Not trusting the urologist never entered the equation, he is highly qualified and was recommended. But $20,000 for me is a lot of money and it would have been a great struggle to pay it off.

lil1 :littleguy

I hate to see a wounded animal suffering and I don’t enjoy putting it out of it’s misery. Fortunately, for me, this one was DOA.

So Pan, you’ve been PEing for 10 years ….. but you can’t remember whether you actually measured yourself at the start or, if you did, you’ve forgotten. You "think" you might have been about 6" at 18-20. Hmmm …….. Pan, that’s not very reliable information. And added to this you say "I also dont keep a track, I know when something works anyway."
I see ………thank you Pan, we’ve got your number and can you close the door on the way out. :)
lil1 :littleguy

Hey hobby! Where are you? Come back! ….. I’ve got this radical new theory that erect exercises actually kill brain cells! :chuckle: Care to discuss it over a Guinness - my shout! :gulp:

BTW, for all the people who want to know who the guy was who claimed 3/4" growth in less than a week click here .

Please calm down a bit. I for one like to see the visits of regulars from peforum come here and chat, and vice-versa. I thought it was great that Johan went over and posted his stuff, and now a lot of guys are doing the AI stretches over there, too. Let’s all just agree to disagree for now- as those that are doing erect bends and are passionate about it will not be stopping anytime soon if they are getting gains. Do I think people should do erect bends? No- I think someone will very soon be tearing the tunica, but I cannot know that for sure. My thoughts are to keep the debate CIVILIZED- but keep the debate going. Time will tell who is correct, and if the picture I saw of the horseshoe stretch on peforum is an indication of the erect bending that is being practiced- it won’t be long… BTW, here is a link to that pic if anyone is interested.