The Problem with IPR (for me at least)

ted,

Good luck…I wish I had some special advice to give. Unfortunately, as you can see, I don’t have much to offer in that department.

I guess I was just hoping there was something that could REALLY help me since I wrote this…

A new approach for hard gainers

It needs to grow some balls! :)

You do need to dial it back rushmore.

Anybody seen Shilow?

I’ve got balls. If I grew any more or any bigger I’d need new pants. (:

It is better when we all relax. :)

I agree that dialing it back is a good idea, but I also understand where rushmore is coming from. It is very frustrating to be at this for 4+ disciplined years and get essentially no gains all the while reading about member after member that get “easy” gains.

Rushmore, I completely agree that IPR theory is a hard sell for slow gainers since there is no growth during the I-phase.
I wish I had the answer for you, but I’m still trying to figure it out for myself…

Sorry if this sounds insensitive. But, after reading some of your history, I just have to ask: Throughout all these years, why have you continued to incorporate decon breaks and IPR techniques into your routine if they’ve never worked?

My 2 cents here. I think the real key is getting it dialed in so you ARE getting gains in the I phase…if you aren’t then the rest won’t do you any good.

For Rushmore, I don’t know if you mean you have been doing STEADY PE for 4 years. If you HAVE, then you need to first take about 3 months off, then go back to what originally worked for you and do some variation of that. I think if it doesn’t produce gains, then slightly increase the time every 2-3 weeks until you start to see gains.

When and IF you start to make gains again, then I think one of the best things to come out of the IPR theory is that with HIGH force PE, most gains will slow greatly after 2 weeks, and its time to take time off.

Lower force PE I think works on a different mechanism and the growth can last a lot longer.

Whichever method you use, I think measuring is critical, and when growth greatly slows or stops, I think you should take a decon break at that point. The lower the forces used, the shorter break needed, and if you are using really high forces then a significantly longer break will be needed.

I think the problem comes in when growth slows or stops and we just keep increasing time and force, and it all just goes toward tissue toughening.

I agree with everyone except Happy. No wait, I agree with Shilow. Aw crap.

I don;t have the desire to read your progress log, Rush, but I do sympathize. It’s been about a year since I have seen any gains. Each time I “ramped up” my routine I injured myself and each time I took a break, nothing seemed to happen.

On October 15th I started something kinda new. I mixed up a PE gumbo and now I use it for a “lazy” jelq routine three days a week (Tue, Thur, & Sat.). It is kinda like what I imagine Wantsmore was proposing.

On those days, after my jelq routine, I apply Monkeybar’s Vacu-Hanger as an ADS for no more than 8 hours. I will wear it for four hours, take a one hour break (with some jelqs for good measure) and then another four hours. If I try to go longer, I just get injuries.

It’s still early, and I don;t have any progress to report yet (so WHY am I here) but perhaps it is something you may want to try. It incorporates a lot of the theories that have worked for other folks - but is easy enough to actually do.

The mixture consists of (in order of highest quantity to least):
40% Olive Oil
20% Honey
10% Vit. E Oil (concentrated)
>5% Vit A (Retinol)
>5% Liquid Calcium
>5% Ethyl Alcohol
>5% DMSO

By working every other day you give the tissue time to respond to stimulus before causing more damage. The ointment contains nutrients for cells and a transdermal carrier. It is also an excellent lubricant for jelqing.

The ADS gives the tissue a biomechanical stimulus to remodel in the lengthened state which should also increase girth. If you keep the tension light enough you hardly notice it is there.

I can tell you may be near the edge of giving up. I wouldn’t blame you.
I ask myself from time to time if the gains I saw were even real. Were those initial measurements correct? Is additional length worth all the effort and time?

Is there anything you haven’t tried?

I honestly didn’t realize this was considered “dialed up” in any way. So in light of being made aware of this, I apologize. This forum has always been good to me.

Now…

Dick,

I only started to incorporate extended rest periods after I realized that no mater what I was doing, no growth was occurring. Had I been gaining all along, I would have never tried decon breaks, infrared lighting, and all of the other crap I have lying around my house. Problem is I have never found the right chemistry of PE that works for me. At this point I can only hope that there is still some hope in future advancements. I believe my limiting factor is the most difficult to overcome, a steel cable for a septum.

sparky,

How HIGH is HIGH? I haven’t PE’d for about 3 months until 2 days ago, so I’m quite deconditioned (if that condition even exists for me anymore). I doubt that jelqing for 3 minutes and stretching for 5 is going to give me growth anymore, which ironically was my newbie routine that gave me the only results I have ever achieved! I’ve started several threads about my problems, but it comes down to a powerful limiting factor coupled with a penis that gets toughened up very quickly, IMO too quickly to ever realize a gain. There’s only so much force I am willing to put on my unit. What I find to be true about IPR, at least for me, is that I have a window of about 2 weeks that my dick “feels” pliable and that gains “could” possibly happen before it turns to beef jerky. Problem is, I can’t get gains that quickly…

I know the last post was difficult to understand. But I have read the thread linked by rushmore
A new approach for hard gainers

and, basically, concepts that I tried to expose are the same that rushmore already said there.

To say it in another way:

the IPR could be wrong when assuming, conceptually, that hardgainers are those who get less enlargement; they, adverseley, should be called easy gainers, because they adapt to a stress easily, quickly, and with little morphologicals modification. So their defense are more efficient; they (their penises) are stronger.

All that imply that, for the hardgainers, next phase of training (PE work) should be not ligth and infrequent: this actually is good for the easy gainers. The next training should be higher in intensity and number of work-out/week, because hardgainers have to do the same amount of work the easy gainers do in 12 weeks, in 6 weeks; after the 6th weeks of work, bodies (penises) of the hardaginer will be adapted and nothing will work for them.

The fact that, using the same amount of work of easygainers (or normal gainers), the hardgainers are under-worked at first, and adapted before the end, should be indirectly sustained by the number of injuries : if I’ m not wrong, generally easygainers have more injuries then hardgainers, despite the fact that among hardgainers there are some who are doing something brutal to penis.

Yes, I believe this is exactly the main issue. The window of time for gains to possibly happen is too short for a hardgainer to realize growth. Hardgainers NEED more time to gain, but by the time that gains COULD be made, the penis has already become to tough or conditioned. My unit literally becomes a completely different piece of meat by the time 10-14 days have passed. Now how can a hardgainer grow in 10-14 days? I mean, I don’t think it would be healthy to hang 100 lbs off your dick, although this may be a solution to this dilemma.

How high is high? I really just have a guess at this point. I think over 5 in hg, over 10lbs in hanging, jelquing really can’t be quantified, but when it becomes "unpleasant"…but really I think those ranges are more moderate to beginning of HIGH, and is just my best guess.

As far as whether you think 3 minutes of jelquing and 5 of stretching is going to work…what do you have to lose to start at that level, give it 2 weeks and see if it is working?

I think that for many guys, the "growth zone" might me very close to the toughening zone, if they go much past the "growth zone" it hits toughening and stops dead.

Have you seen these two threads? I think they are worth a look at;

NEW newbie + advanced routine

Speaking to Big Gainer soon

What is similar in these is just upping time (jelquing) while keeping the force modest. I think once you find the growth zone, then when it stops, rather than keep upping the time, go to a 2 week break then begin again at that same or near to it, time amount.

Also, if you haven’t read my EQ thread, I think it may give you some useful tips. Its linked at my signature.

But you can do 1h of fulcrum stretch a day, that I think is more productive than 3 h of hanging for day.

You could do:
1st week - 30’ fulcrum stretch
2nd week - 45’ fulcrum stretch
3rd week - 60’ ” ” ” ”
4th week - 75’
5th week - 90’
6 week - 90’

3 weeks off.

or a shorter phase (macrocycle).

The major factor should be, also, the total time of work/day, because the basic need is dont’ getting your penis time to adapt. So, an HG should do more number of work-session/day.

Also, he should adopt a “divide and conquer” strategy, avoiding doing an exercise for girth and one for length at the same time.
So could be good: 3-6 weeks stretch only; then 3-6 weeks jelqs only; 3 weeks off; repeating.

Just an idea.