No Gains

How I have been doing it is, moving up the weight in 2 1/2 lb increments. So when I first started to hang I was at 2 1/2 lbs. I would then hang until I no longer could feel that good soreness after a session ( usually after 2 weeks), and then increase the weight another 2 1/2 lbs.

So I’ve been adding weight about every 2 weeks when I stop feeling that good soreness. Maybe that is my issue….or one of them.

That soreness feeling is a guide for gains. You want to stay on it as many sets as possible each day. Feels kind of like a burning/ripping/shearing/melting sensation in the ligs? Not a sharp pain, but a dull feeling of continuous deformation. Choose your weights for each set such that they keep you in that feeling as much as possible. So you might do one warm up set, then the next set add weight as necessary to get into the “fatigue” feeling. Then subsequent sets, if the feeling gets too intense, lower weight as necessary to reduce the intensity while still maintaining the feeling. The ideal weight shifts around a lot, between days and between sets.

PS. You might benefit from having a couple 1.0 lbs or 0.5 lbs weights to fine tune in on the feeling and ideal weight.

You are spot on, BH. I filled up a gallon water jug which was about 10.5 pounds. I originally used my own homemade hanger and that’s where info a majority of my gains. I had no idea what I was doing. I only knew to hang for 20 minute sets and to rest for 10. I didn’t know about fatigue or riding it. I just hung all work day long.

Wow bro, I feel for you. To hang that much and see nothing SUCKS. Are you using a Bib? If so, did you do the 3 tests Bib talks about? Maybe you need to go to targeted tunica stretching now, like SO and the RSDT fulcrum.

I am fairly certain that swinging my weight front to back played a big role in my gains. Try incorporating swinging if you haven’t already. I also did manual helicopters, about 200-300 a day.

Go back to the ADS and manuals routine you summed up here
Flashpoint - 1 year progress update Pictures
and see if that works again. Forget hanging for at least 6 months and if ever you’ll try hanging again don’t hear anything about angles, deformation, fatigue and similar blatering idiocies.

That may be good advice, to go back to what has worked in the past. Different methods work for different guys. But some veteran hangers helping out a fellow hanger in a hanging topic in the hanging forum using hanging terminology is far from “blathering idiocy”. Just as the angle, force, time, and their effects on the target tissues all matter when using the manual + ADS routine that you recommend (or any PE method) so do these same concepts matter in hanging.

Don’t matter at all when using ADS and manuals, as they don’t matter at all when hanging. Exactly like this idea of ‘fatigue’ is mental: tunica albuginea is similar to tendons and ligs, and nobody wants to ‘fatigue’ tendons and ligs, they are not built to be ‘fatigued’, a fatigued tendon or lig needs a shit load of time to heal and going on pulling on it just serves to predispose to an injury.

About those ‘veteran hangers’ wisdom, I have heard some of the most stupid things coming from some ‘veteran hangers’, to the LOT theory to the idea that the penis can shift out of the body pulling on it, to theorizing that you have to create scar tissue in your penis and then keep stretching the scar tissue, and so on.

Of course it matters. Force and time are among the most important controls we have in PE.

I recently read an account on Bib’s forums from an orthodontist who upon reading Bib’s theory remarked how similar it was to using braces to move teeth. They target the periodontal ligament, if I remember correctly. And they apply a constant force, 24/7, and he talked about how there’s an industry accepted standard range of appropriate rates of ligament lengthening, and ranges of acceptable forces. He basically agreed that ligaments lengthen by controlled micro damage, and they continuously heal themselves in real time.

If the rate of damage to the collagen is kept at a low enough rate, the tissue heals continuously. Low rate of damage means micro tears, heat, long time exposure while maintaining an ideal point on the stress/strain curve, which is just enough to cause failure of collagen micro-fibrils without tearing the larger fiber structures. This is the idea of deformation, the breaking of collagen micro-fibril bonds. Always attacking the next failing microfibril without doing any damage at the level of larger fibers, is the idea of riding the fatigue. Riding as in staying in the zone between not doing enough (no deformation) and doing too much (larger fiber damage i.e. macro tears).

I don’t like the term fatigue either. I don’t think the word accurately captures everything Bib used it to mean: the feeling of micro damage in real time, and the damage itself. But it does save time by encapsulating an important concept into one word. And it is appropriate in that collagen fibrils fail after some time under force, and muscular fatigue has the connotation of a failure through tiring. But all in all, it causes more confusion than good because of that same connotation.

Angle up and down determines how much of the stretch is absorbed by ligs and how much is absorbed by tunica. Angle left and right distributes the stretch through the side of the shaft and stress one side of the ligamenture exclusively. A downward angle distributes more stress to the ligs. An upward angle distributes stress through the entire shaft, all the way down to the bulbs and crux at the insertion of the penis at the perineum. Mid angles are a mix of the two. This isn’t some theory, it’s easily observed and felt while hanging. Even a 30 degree angle change can make a difference in the feeling of what tissues are being stressed.

LOT is another thing that’s not really a theory. Hang above a certain angle, and you can kegel the weight and feel the stretch all the way back to the perineum. Hang below that angle, and you can feel the ligaments absorbing some weight, and the lower “internal” penis absorbing very little weight. Below some angle there is nothing to kegel. Loss Of Tugback. It’s not a theory. It’s just something that happens when you hang at different angles. Same is true of stretching at different angles. Different angles for different target tissues.

BD after my hanging experience this year I have to agree with everything you said, I’ve observed all the same things.

Yes, having different weights is a good idea, as I’m only working with 2 1/2 increments. I’ll be at Wally world today so I will get some 1 lb and .5 lb like suggested.

I really don’t want to use an ADS again since I stopped gaining with it after many months of trying. It’s the whole reason I lost interest in PE for a few years.

Here’s the link to that orthodontics post on Bib’s forum for anyone who’s interested.

http://forum.bi bhanger.com/for … theory-about-pe

Bearded Dragon has hit the nail on the head yet again. I believe some of what you have observed partially explains why the men of Tanna Island in the chain of islands that comprise Vanuatu are known by some to have very large penises. And it has also been observed that the older the man, the larger is his penis. The wraps they meticulously form over their organs are in some respects akin to braces on ones teeth. They also serve to conserve heat, and generate some amount of pressure. I also suspect that the gourds they are sometimes seen to where are used not just for ceremonial rituals, but also as vacuum cylinders, as my experimentation has shown they are perfect for the job. I doubt that the ancient, pagan gods that are depicted in statuary throughout the South Pacific that have enormous phalluses are baseless in reality. I believe they were real men that practiced Penis Enlargement, and had a fuller understanding of it than we do today. The men of Tanna are the sole remaining safeguards of this ancient knowledge.

Thanks swaffel. I am mostly paraphrasing Bib from stuff he wrote over 10 years ago, and which I later observed to be happening in my own hanging experiences after I got my hanger configured in a way that I could hang long periods of time each day.

I will have to learn more about the men of Tanna Island, thank you for that reference. There was a member here with a contentious and short lived posting career by the name of chubypeckerwood who reportedly based his method for gains off a similar wrapping method, inspired by the Vanuatuans, using neoprene sleeves to make his wrap. I never knew that this practice was specific to Tanna Island though.

a) The periodontal ligament is quite completely different than tunica albuginea; b) you don’t know if he really is an orthodontist as he claims; c) comparing the force applied by an orthodontisc device or procedure to the force applied by an hanger is ludicrous per se; d) when you use a clamping hanger you are not applying a force 24/7; the force is applied in cycles, about the opposite way; so e) saying that Bib’ ‘theory’ is analogous to using braces to move teeth is wrong; that ‘braces’ model is actually similar to what you do when you use an ADS; which normally apply less force, for more prolonged period of times (never 24/7, though; did you know that years ago a couple of members here tried to wear 24/7 an extender (I think it was the static stretcher) and they gained nothing?) ; f) what he agreed upon, even supposing he really is an orhtodontist, only shows that he is unreliable : an orthodontist knows about nothing of ligaments; think if a physiotherapist would pretend to know how to move teeths. g) most of how much ligaments can lengthen has nothing to do with damage; and it has been shown in experiments that in connective tissue any strain triggers cellular proliferaction, without of any ‘damage’ to heal; the ‘damage’ model is not a good one for PE, there are different grades of damage and each of them has specific consequences; breaking the tunica albuginea is a damage, do you think your penis will grow longer after a rupture? Adversely : damage could be meant in such an extensive meaning to include any kind of damage; but again, this wold be meaningless, for example cells are dieing all the time in our whole body, even if we don’t pull the penis, but this won’t give a longer penis, will it?

See what I mean? Show me a single study (in vivo) showing that if a healthy tendon is damaged continously at any given intensity it can heal continously and become longer. And what exactly are you meaning with ‘micro-tears’? Breaking a few fibers or what? And again, this is not what you can do with a Bib. And a ‘level low enough to heal continously is inconsistent with the idea of ‘riding the fatigue’.

Oh, Bib. The Bible. Well, muscular fatigue has about shit to do with a tissue like tunica albuginea or ligs. When you feel your muscle burning, it’s the striatus muscle, not tendons. And is doubtly that there is any feeling associated to the breakage of an individual fiber. What you are exposing is just a bunch of suppositions and you believe them not for rational reasons but because you don’t know the subject and you want to believe that somebody does.

Since stressing the ligs is no point you can save time stretching only downward. Have you ever heard a manual stretcher giving all this importance to angles? Look at those who had gains using an extender or a pump: they give a fuck to angles; all the theorization and the apparatus to hang in different position and angles is ludicrous.

Sides and angles are two different things. Stretching to one side never stresses exclusively one side of the ligament or the shaft.

Which is no point. The downward angle is the most effective because stretch the most important part of the tunica albuginea, the dorsal one. This is why it is the most effective. Not because lengthening the ligs serves to make your penis shift ‘the inner penis’ out of your body.

Which serves to nothing either. I can’t help but laugh thinking that there is somebody that wants to stretch his perineum.

The theoric part is that you are supposing that those feeling have a specific meaning. You don’t know that. I have been reading from an unbiased point of view the empirical outcomes of all the things you are exposing, and I have come to the conclusion that they aren’t just inoffensive writings based on the ignorance of the subject, but they actually make harder to get gains. It is way more likely to have gains by hanging if you never heard all of that supposed ‘knowledge’. And this is thread is the another confirmation of what I am saying.

Having some experience in hanging, and reading thousand of posts, I will tell you those feelings are bad PI’s; when you start feeling fatighe, burning, aching or anything that can be associated with fatigue, stop PEing, because if you go on your tissue will just strengthen.

You have to inform yourself dude, it’s the one who invented it that called it a theory
Bib’s LOT Theory

and for your information, he suggested that LOT theory can be used to know the best way to hang to have gains. A bunch of nonsense that we are still trying to inform members that they can just forget of it and it will be better.

LOL. It’s their penis sheath, not their real penis. It grows because the older the man, the more respect he deserves, I guess. They have normal penis and they don’t do the practice you think they do; actually, for their culture penis size is irrelevant.
http://www.ency … opic/Tanna.aspx

I think only in the hanger forum one can read that kind of posts. Or maybe in the NCE.