No Gains

The logic is pretty simple: a penis sheath is not a real penis, it is like clothes. The remaining of your verbous post is nothing short than hilarious and also completely off topic.

Mate why does everything have to become an argument ? I thought we had got over that.

I’m not talking theory just saying that since I’ve been hanging I’ve observed all the same things as bib and other hangers, why is that a problem ?
I’ve always been up front about my lack of gains over the years so I don’t see why that’s an issue.
It’s only been this year since I’ve been hanging that I’ve made any solid gain.

Cap, I know you surf this place with a cellphone lately, and this makes you miss something probably. I’ll make you a quick resume: here we have a guy who had good gains with an ADS and few manuals; then, to boost his gains, he jumped on the hangers’ wisdom train; after 5 months, hanging several hours per day, he has no gains. What’s the advice of all the people lost in Bib’ evangel? ‘Add sets, add angles…’ add, add, add. I suppose you see the point now.

This is not an isolated example. I have seen many guys swearing that Bib’ way is the way to go and if it is not working, than you just have to do more; guess what, before or after that they will disappear with no proof of gains whatsover. Convenient, because this way you can’t have a proof of what common sense suggests: doing 20 minutes sets and ten minutes between, several hours per day, with a hanger that doesn’t pulls from the tip, which applies most of the stress on the skin, which compress too much smooth muscle,that will likely cause toughening more then lengthening, is NOT the best approach to hanging and if it has not worked after some hundreds of hours then it is time that you switch to something else, instead than obstinanting going on with that. People are living like conviceted hoping that something that is a bunch of nonsense can magically makes sense tomorrow, this is a problem for me, not that some guys feels insulted because I doubt their’ Pope tales.

Fast check-up: look at this thread
Before-and-After Measurement Pictures
and see how many of those with commonly accepted b/a pics had their gains exclusively through clamp-style hanging. You can find manual stretchers, pumpers, hell even a clamper with impressive length gains, but none who gained only with hanging. Does that means that the traditional hangers wisdom is broken or not?

I understand what you’re saying especially in relation to the OP, I was only passing on my experience.
I can’t comment on the bib hanger as I’m using a vachanger but the general principle seems to work for me.
I only hung 5 days a week though so that’s one difference.

I gained with a compression style hanger. I am sure I am not the only one who has. I can count my clamping sessions on one hand. Last time I used a pump was 20 years ago. I didn’t start doing manual exercises again until maybe a year into my hanging career. Which I promptly managed to hurt myself by probably jelqing under to much pressure. My gains have come from a compression hanger only. I was not mixing any other methods during the time that I achieved the bulk of my gains.

I have pulled extra skin mainly by poor technique. If I wanted to I am positive I could grow some sort of pseudo foreskin just by changing the way I hang. The hanger is like a vice and is pulling on far more than my skin.

The most common mistake that I see people make is not progressing up to a weight that will do any good. They are not putting in the hours that they do with an ADS yet they keep the stress to low. I believe that 10 pounds is the minimum weight that is required for the vast majority of compression hangers to gain. With any type of curve there will be some that will gain under less stress and some that will require more.

Now if people up the amount of hours to near ADS levels then it will probably take less than 10 pounds.

I couldn’t care less about any of the theories. I do believe that the weight/time progression that Bib recommends is a good guideline.

In the interest of full disclosure and transparency I will post this p.m. I just received from Marinera, and my response.

Don’t know what you are talking about. Do you not like the free exchange of information? What is it you are afraid of? Is it that you realize my information actually has great potential to empower those you would rather see repressed, and you are looking for some pretense to ban me? What is this site really about? Are you one of the Gait keepers?

I ask all of you that are reading this to beg this venerated and accomplished master of the p.e. Posting forum that is thundersplace. Org to please not ban the lowly swaffel, with only having been able to post a paltry 5 times. At least not until he has had the opportunity to impart what he humbly considers to be wisdom he has gained over a life time of travels, study and dedication on a topic that is near and dear to everyone here at thundersplace.org. Ask him to forgive swaffel for his sometimes “verbose” language. You may even remind him, this all powerful moderator who has the power to ban anyone of us at the press of a button, since he has chosen to use a V word, of a quote from V Is For Vendetta: “Words will always retain their power. Words are the the means to meaning, and for those who listen, the enunciation of truth,.”
I will not deal with him on a private level. I don’t trust him. I think he is being disingenuous. I will only address him in a public forum. I understand to most of you I must appear to be an extremely suspicious character. That’s all right, I am, and it doesn’t mean I’m wrong. And since I have the feeling that this will be my last opportunity to post here at thundersplase. Org let me further illiterate the case I am putting forth against Marinera. First of all Marinera claims to have nearly a ten inch long erect penis with over six and a half erect girth. He also claims to have made some fairly substantial gains, and despite having posted a nearly unbelievable amount of times, so many times in fact that one could fairly assume that he has dedicated his life to helping others achieve what he has, yet he has offered no proof. Not one single picture. We’re supposed to simply trust him. Hmmm. Second, it has been my experience that the techniques he advocates do little to nothing to increase one’s size, and at best only serve to toughen the penis. Anytime someone advocates a methodology that in my opinion has a chance of actually increasing one’s size Marinera ridicules it. Anytime someone advocates a methodology that would enable one to retain there sperm, he ridicules it. Anytime some one posts a picture of a penis that would compare to his, supposedly, he ridicules it. In fact, anytime any one says anything that doesn’t fit inside his box he ridicules it. I have only addressed this man twice, at least I presume he’s a man, of course we cannot know given the nature of this forum, for all we really know Marinera could be a committee or even an A.I. Software program, but just for the sake of this argument I will stick with the “man” premise. Like I was saying, twice I’ve addressed him. The first time I immediately get a private message from another moderator, warning me to watch what I say, simply for calling into question what Marinera had to say. The second time I get the message above. Somehow it didn’t surprise me at all. In my previous post I gave the essentials of a strategy that has allowed me to quadruple my erect volume, and dramatically increase erectile function. Marinera chose to ignore this entirely, and immediately went to work looking for ways to quasi legitimately ban me, and coincidentally or not my post was immediately buried beneath several posts, all of which were moderators. Hmmm.

Get over yourself. Myself and other moderators had been responding to the original poster and conversing among ourselves before swaffel came along. Heck, I think you are trying to bury my posts. Perhaps you are afraid I am going to enlighten the people and you want to bury it.

The only things that moderators will ask you to do is follow the forum rules. No one is above the forum rules and that includes you.

So just follow the rules and you can continue to enlighten the world.

As a favor it would be nice if you can take your super huge paragraph and break it down to multiple paragraphs so people can read what you have to say easier.

Not trying to bury anyones posts mate, please go ahead and elaborate on your methods.

Better you answered that pm, because there are matches between your account and other accounts. So you are saying that you don’t have other accounts here? Are you sure? Think better before replying this time.

Dude, do you know what is written in your profile? ‘Previous PE Experience : no.’. Now blame me for putting yourself at ridicule.

Which doesn’t mean that it is the best kind of hanger, agree?

This is one inconsistency I see : if 10 pounds is the effective weight, why suggest to start with a low weight and progress? I know you need some time to learn how to use a hanger, but this has little to do with adding weight week after week searching for ‘fatigue’. (How come that people who use other technique don’t keep searching for this mythical ‘fatigue’? They shouldn’t care less and seem to gain at least as well as hangers.) One should spend a week or two learning how to use the device, then just make use of the effective weight for the least amount of time possible, instead than transfroming himself in a convicted doing countless ineffective sets.

What do you do to become stronger? You go in a gym, you pick up a weight you can lift without too much effort and do 3 or more sets with it, with rest bewteen sets, and you keep adding weight and sets week after week. This is anologous to Bib’ guidelines for hanging. A pathway to make your penis stronger nore than longer. At this point throw in countless sets to try to make it weaker instead than stronger - well, doesn’t make much sense, does it? And add angles, and any kind of strange positions, so that you should do an infinite number of sets to be sure that you are covering everything. Why? Becasue so, if you don’t have gains, it is because you haven’t done enough sets, and his suggestions can’t be proven wrong.

The best course would be making use of a hanger that pulls from the tip, that allows long sets (45+ minutes) without restricting circulation, and if that doesn’t work after some hundreds of hours switch to another technique.

Something that people are often missing : all the other PE techniques focus on strain (lengthwise or girthwise, so expansion). They don’t focus on applying more and more force believing that that is the primary goal of their progression. If you apply a weight to your penis, and your penis tries to lengthen to relief the stress, the weight is still there; so your body is like ‘Hell, what the fuck I have to do to deal with this stress?’; it will partly lengthen, partly toughen up. That’s why hanging is not the best way to lengthen the penis, to begin with; doing it with a clamp style hanger and adding weight and sets week after week adds makes it even less ideal.

Swaffel,

I really enjoyed your posts, you’ve got a way with words!

Interesting insight on the South Pacific culture. And a healthy way to view PE, as something to be proud of instead of ashamed of. While I’m not about to go public with my PE for the good of the cause, your post inspires honesty and a good frame of reference for doing PE.

I’d be curious to hear more about your sheath and its design features. What is it made of? How does it accomplish the trio of pressure, elongation, and full circulation? Did you design it to be held in the upward position by a belt like I see in online images of the Tannese? What other design features or customs did you pick up from the Tannese?

I’d also be interested in any insight on your path to sperm retentions. I am always amazed at the positive effects of retaining for 2+ weeks, but rarely do it because of the extreme case of blue balls that inevitably shows up.

There is a good discussion on Mantak Chia’s books about the subject of sperm retention here: Seminal Kung Fu and Crown Chakra Orgasms

I hope you will avoid the arguments and continue the sharing. TP yields some far out discussions for a bunch of dick pullers.

No way for me to quantify it off of my experience. The only other hanger I used was a Captain’s hanger. The failure of the hanger was mine in lack of ability to put it together correctly. I truly have no other experience with other hangers.

So I do agree that there could be better hangers out there. There also might not be.

I can’t speak for other style of hangers or even other hanger users. But I absolutely could not have started at 10 pounds. This is not just due to the weight on my penis. It is a vice and as you move up in weight it requires greater tightening of the vice. The compression forces on my penis where intense. Just adding more sets haphazardly can lead to bruising and skin issues. The only problems that I have ever had was when I came back to hanging from any extended period of absence and I try to pick up where I left off. Not only couldn’t my skin handle it I would also have issues with edema and I actually felt I was risking injury.

I am under the belief that other people that have used a compression style hanger know what I am talking about. The guidelines that Bib has are more in regards to safety. I haven’t been on his forum in a long time. But I do remember there was always the desperate people that tried pushing to hard and to fast. They would injure themselves.

This also doesn’t even speak about technique issues. Such as the mistakes of hanging with to much blood in the glans.

You definitely read things differently than I have. Now I also must admit that I received most of his instructions from his forum. Perhaps the instructions have evolved over time.

The rest between sets is because you are causing oxygen loss and you run the risk of tissue death. It is not for some mythical recovery or for extra gains. It is to make sure that you don’t cause gangrene in the tissues.

The idea of adding sets is to make whatever structures weaker. The methodology is to slowly reduce weight as you can tolerate instead of just stopping when you feel you can’t take anymore. There have been points where I know I can’t hang anymore at a given weight. So instead of calling it a day or a session, I drop a pound or two and hang for another set. Then when I feel I can’t tolerate the now lower weight I drop another pound or two. I keep doing this until I decide to call it a day or session. This is where that term “riding fatigue” comes from. Perhaps the word has no meaning but most compression hangers understand that feeling.

Perhaps the idea is hokey but it is what I have been using. In regards to angles people are taking it as a divide and conquer strategy.

Again my experience is primarily at two angles only. I really don’t have any experience with any other angles beyond the random experiment to just see what it feels like. What I have been doing works for me so I haven’t felt the need to mess with it.

The rest between sets is a limitation of his hanger. Now I don’t believe any hanger is perfect and I don’t mind taking the rest between sets. I personally don’t like sitting at the angle I hang at for more than 20 minutes. So it works for me.

From what I have read most people that haven’t gained from compression hanging are usually to conservative and the weight they are using is still very low.

Does the penis eventually become stronger? My guess is yes. But I believe this is with almost any form of PE. It is why people stop having gains after the newbie period. Not counting gains from improved erection quality. In my opinion the stresses at work are no longer enough to overcome the now stronger penis.

However, I could be wrong but I have yet to see someone use an extender or ADS and maintain the same level of linear growth month after month. They will get to the point that the tension on those devices just won’t be enough.

Perhaps. I do have a question in regards to that style of hanger. If you pull from the tip and now the tension is distributed over the entire penis, shouldn’t it now take an even greater amount of tension to overcome everything that is resisting? This is the opposite of divide and conquer.

As far as I am aware most vacuum hangers are unable to go beyond 26 pounds of weight. I am still hanging at 17 pounds of weight but all the tension is pulling on maybe 66% of the structure that a vacuum hanger is pulling on. A compression hanger is more concentrated in one area.

Yes the vacuum hanger can be used for greater periods of time but more tissue is resisting in concert. Then you throw in the limitations of what a vacuum hanger can handle in regards to weight and I could see scenarios where hard gainers would never gain with one. At the very least their gains might be limited.

A compression hanger has strain also. Trust me.

Again this goes back to my belief that all forms of PE are causing the penis to get tougher/stronger. So a compression hanger allows you to increase the weight as needed well beyond a vacuum hangers limitation.

Now I know you don’t believe about fatigue at all. But part of the thinking and why many compression hanger users never get beyond a certain weight has to due with the idea of riding fatigue and this theory of limiting factors.

The theory is there are limiting factors to be overcome and a weight that overcomes one limiting factor might be more than is needed to overcome the next limiting factor. So you don’t get everyone hanging at 70 pounds in two years. But part of this theory is to keep trying to prevent it from healing and toughening up. So you keep it weak and you keep going after the next limiting factor.

Now of course here is my disclaimer. I don’t care about the theory at all. If I am gaining and it is working for me, I truly don’t need bro science trying to explain why it works. As long as I gain within a time frame that I am happy with, I will keep on following the same technique. It could be because of magical unicorn dust. Obviously there is some science that explains why things are happening, but I truly don’t need to understand it, to gain.

My personal biggest limitations with hanging have been me. I am inconsistent with hanging just like I am with most things in my life. I have never ever hit 40 hours in a month. Bib recommends 10 hours a week and I always allow life to get in the way of me hitting that. I also take unintended breaks because of my kids vacation schedules. So in a year I am probably doing 1/3rd the amount of hanging that Bearded Dragon or other hangers do.

I find it hard to believe that if I was to hang more often, I would have worse results. I am a believer in more is more. With the exception of someone injuring themselves.

Isn’t a basic of PE that you start with the lowest force and least time and slowly increase until you see gains then if gains slow increase time or force.

How is that any different to the basic hanging strategy.

That is a learning issue, not a matter of being able to sustain the compressive force.

I have used a compression style hanger. Namely, the AFB hanger, of which the Bib is pretty much a rip off.

I have never said that he advice them as a ‘mythical recovery for extra gains’. It is because clamp-style hangers cut off circulation and you have to remove it after 15-20 minutes (some people have to go as short as 10 minutes, actually). This is a factor of inefficiency, that’s my point.

Why? Why you want to make structures weaker? What will happen when they recover? That they will be stronger. What will happens if they don’t recover? An injury, before or after. The idea of riding the fatigue is pretty much the old ‘no pain no gain’ in bodybuilding.

Not really, if you are using a vacuum hanger the tension is not pulling on the skin, which absorbs most of the stress that a clamp hanger applies. The same is true for manual stretching. More inner penis being pulled, more cells being stimulated to grow or proliferate. You are looking at this like the penis was an inanimated thing, a bar of metal or such: you have to pull on it so it will deform over time. Instead ,the penis is living tissue, the aim of the pull should be to gently stimulate growth.

You don’t see those scenarios. I think you are sold on Bib’ tale and you bought his hanger; how do I know that? Because otherwise you had tried a vac hanger first, going from the less intensive to the more intensive, the less discomfortable to the most.

Anyway, if you think a clamp style hanger allows for unlimited weight, you are wrong. As you observed above, the weight is fixed to your penis by the compressive force, which cause discomfort; over a given amount of weight, the discomfort will become too much to allow sets longer than a few minutes (which are good if you want to run in a penis powerlifting contest, otherwise not).
Now, slowly adding weight allow your skin and smooth muscle to become stronger and resist to the compressive force; but at the same rate your inner penis (more specifically, the tunica albuginea) is becoming stronger. So again, it comes out that the clamp style hanger strategy is not that wise.

Let me add one thing, to you and all the people that believe that the more weight you can place on your penis, the better the outcome : first extenders applied a maximum tension of about 3 lbs; nowadays there are extenders that can apply tensions above 10 lbs; has the rate of gains of people using extender increased? Apparently not, their gains is a function of the time, not of the pulling force.

Which limiting factors?

Oh, I believe that fatigue can be felt. What I am saying is that there is no proof that fatigue is required for gains: so true that you don’t hear manual stretchers, or pumpers or jelqers speaking about ‘fatigue’. If anything, fatigue is probably counterproductive for gains.

That’s where the theory is flawed. Tissue toughens up the most when it is prevented from healing. What happens if you repeteadly damage connective tissue without allowing for healing? That you create scar tissue, which is harder to stretch.

Now, I have a little story for all the enlightened ‘compressive style hangers’ : there is member here, ModestoMan, who doesn’t enter often anymore, but he was here when Bib was here (and I wasn’t here); he is also a Moderator Alumni; he had good gains with manuals, than he thought he could have better gains with hanging, inspired by Bib’ story. He hung under direct supervision of Bib, and when he didn’t gain the advice of Bib was always ‘Do more sets’. Guess what? He not only didn’t gain anything, but ended with a ligaments inflammation. He told his experience here in public and if you search you can find it. Just so you know that we are not the kind of peole who never discovered the wheel.

Lots of great discussion on here regarding different theories and techniques. I will admit, my initial gains with the ADS came easy and fast. If my memory serves correct, I think my ADS routine was 6-8 hrs, 7 days a week.

In 2010-2011 I stopped peing due to no gains so I lost interest. I just recently started PE again (5 months ago), so I had quite the break from all of this. I figured my gains stop from the lack of force that the ADS could apply, and that is why I chose the hanging route.

Now I’m more confused as ever on which route I should take. Do I go back to an ADS, keep hanging or incorporate both. I’ve read many great post from mariners, titlest (?), Syrian (?), firegoat and a few other vets. I assume they all have great advice for what has worked for them and others, but damn all this going back n forth doesn’t help me any.

My ADS has been lost for a few years, so what are some descent ones that are cheap? I think my penis master cost around 250-300, and I don’t really have that kinda cash right now.

Thanks everyone!