Why we don't gain from hanging

Please explain. What are you referring to with heretic days? Still I’ve been following him since the beginning. I started right before he opened his own forum! The DLD of today is much different from the DLD of those days. Everyone has some soul searching to do, he has done this, and is an inspiration to me in terms of finding one’s true self.

But what do you mean by lying? I’ve seen the pictures and I’m wondering if it was because of the response he got that other PE goers refuse to post pics

What did you do after each occasion?

Let’s not forget, you can’t argue with results.

We have to adapt our routines to what actually produces results. We can’t expect gains or praise a PE routine/approach simply because we think it sounds good and reasonable to us, nature simply doesn’t work that way. Our opinions doesn’t matter, we have to go by our results.

This knowledge comes with experience, you get to know what works and what doesn’t work for you based on the actual results you get when trying different things. It just so happens that different people find that different things works for them. For example, low weight and long durations has worked best for me, not because I believe or think so, but because the results tell me so. Of course I would have loved to spend less time with PE and still gain, but reality begs to differ.

Some of us have known DLD, aka Mike Salvini, since well before his PE days here on Thunder's Place. If you don’t know the reference to The Heretix all that proves is you aren’t one of us. It’s no big deal.

While little Mike was here on Thunder's he habitually inflated his gains, and used badly PhotoShopped pictures to back up these claims. That’s what I mean by “lying.” In terms of my long-term history with him I have to say it’s consistent with the character he’s always had. With regard to this place, he’s guilty of other things besides lying, which is why he’s no longer welcome here. If he’s done some soul-searching, good for him; I, for one, remain skeptical. He’s made those sorts of claim before. The guy has problems.

People here can post pictures or not. If some are shy about it, that’s understandable for a number of reasons. To assume that this shyness is a result of the controversy DLD helped generate of his own accord is complete nonsense. First of all, it was a long time ago: most of our newer members don’t know from DLD. Secondly, for every PhotoShopped picture he posted we had other guys here who posted legit pictures. It’s easy to spot the difference if you know anything about PhotoShop.

Let’s keep this thread ‘on topic’ going forward. I don’t want to discuss DLD here. That’s what I was saying when I said, “Let’s not talk about DLD.” :leftie:

Got it?

Achille tendon, for example, is designed to have an huge amount of stress every day, thousand of times daily. The idea that it’s less important than suspensory ligs for survival is not supported by anything - actually, the suspensory lig is near unuseful compared to other tendons.

I think while hanging the suspensory lig is stressed isn’t the only tissue stressed.

“It seems to heall incredibly fast”? Where are you taking your data? We have few guys here still dealing with penile injuries they had years ago.

When you ride the fatigue you “heal” in one day? No one since now has explained what riding the fatigue means, and you are assuming that it means that you had micro-tears to your collagenous tissue? Some of collagenous tissue illness shows up without any specifical “feeling”, just so you know - read the whole article I linked if you don’t believe - the pain comes in very advanced state of illness, and is not coming directly by collagenous tissue, but by adiacent tissues and nerves that get a “chain-reaction stress”.

Starting with longerstretch’s post and working down

longerstretch - Right. What marinera was saying applied to an injury.

jb - Rock on brotha

jb - Yes that sounds about right

iron - Yeah, I gained the 1/4 inch, and I’m hovering around there at the moment.

hobby - I think this is pretty neutral and can be agreed on by many if not all

Marinera - Maybe he’s suggesting that to newbie hangers. That’s definitely not applicable to the context of this discussion.

Marinera - Yes.

Marinera - This is why I don’t like getting into it with you.. you make irrelevant personal attacks that contribute nothing to the discussion. I’m not going to respond until you approach it respectfully.

kimc - Yes.

blink2000 - Probably couldn’t have said it better.

marinera - ADS’s are always a good option.

marinera - Sounds like he made some good progress.. must have had tight ligs.

blink - I agree with your thoughts on the ADS. It’s limiting. And when they hint at the injuries forum they’re just doing their job as moderators.

Mr Happy - I think it’s slightly relevant.. he didn’t hang but it’s the same concept.. he stretched a lot.

Jb - so weird.

iron - strange.

longerstretch - Congrats. I’d question in what way PI’s *do* relate to hanging.

*ignoring posts about DLD, moving down to marinera*

marinera - I know what he’s talking about. He’s talking about the time it takes to move back up to your maximum stress level. It varies, and I doubt there’s a way to scientifically prove it, but I notice it to be anywhere from 4-8 hours not hanging on a particular tissue set (aka ligs) that I can go back and hang my max on them.

~L

lostracco,

Dude, you realize that this is an almost incomprehensible post?

If you are trying to respond to short pieces within certain individual’s posts, please use the quote function so we know what the hell you’re referring to.

You don’t have to quote their whole post (in fact it’s preferable you don’t) just the bit you’re answering. Okay?

It’s about clear communication.

Seriously. Let’s have a do-over on that one.

I was here when DLD was on thunders too! I remember seeing the pictures with the broken ruler but I didn’t really know about photoshop in those days and the pictures looked believable to me. If you have a picture I would love to see it so I could judge for myself. And I was referring to a rumor that Bib didn’t post progress pics because of the reaction DLD had.

To marinera — I don’t know how the Achilles tendon relates here. I wasn’t evoking an evolutionary rating system for every ligament and tendon, I was giving credit to how strong the suspensory ligaments are and how fast the fatigue built up fades. The article you posted had more to do with sports injuries, hence ligaments and tendons that must bear weight. They are usually thicker and stronger and take longer to heal.

Tendons and ligaments are similar to TA, longerstretch - that’s the only thing we know. They should take longer to heal? Sounds like an hypothesis, agree? It would require some proof.

And how about “we aren’t hitting oly suspensory ligs when hanging”? Tell me, how thick is the TA compared to the Achille tendon?

If you build up very slowly your ligs will LITERALLY become thicker and stronger.

I’ve got a friend that does sport climbing at a professional level — although he does not compete, I have noticed the strength and thickness of his ligaments are just plain amazing. Want an example? He can flex his wrist, and I can flex my wrist and compare-his ligaments are literally 5-10 times thicker than mine. And he’s not swollen, or anything like that—he’s developed the strength of those ligaments over many years. Now about hanging & the suspensory lig which you seem to be calling the TA— I don’t think it’s unreasonable at all to say that you could slowly make this ligament stronger over time to handle hours of hanging. (I’m by no means weak, I can curl 180lbs on a good day, 160lbs any day)

Ligament strength and thickness takes much longer to develop than muscle tissue. I would estimate that ligaments and supporting tissues can take 3-4 times longer than skeletal muscle to develop. This is why you see many bodybuilders/ WWE/ or other professionals tearing ligaments with steroids. Even if you try to be patient with increasing lifting weight, these guys develop the capacity of their skeletal muscles faster than their ligaments and supporting tissues can keep up. OR-they have pain/ or small tears that eventually become macro tears because they refuse to let their body recover. It all comes down to knowing yourself, and looking for indicators—that you’re reaching fatigue, but not pushing to the point of injury.

I agree there’s risk with hanging 4-10 hours per day. I wouldn’t ever deny that. But people that build up to it slowly, and make sure they never put themselves in more than very mild pain—they are probably not going to be at high risk. Even if someone does everything right, an injury is still possible—and adding either time or weight to a PE workout will increase risk of injury no matter what. I think everyone here on thunders must realize that PE itself is a risk.

If you don\’t take any risks at all, your penis is not going to grow. Even the most cautious, consistent, and intelligent PE workout COULD cause an injury. Without the willingness to take some risk, you’ll never grow. I think the key is knowing when & where to draw the line. It’s ‘ride the fatigue’ not ‘ride the injury’. It’s unfair to generalize and say everyone that attempts to PE this way is going to get injured. As moderators, I see why you would not want to encourage that kind of PE. But, many have used the method successfully, so it’s known to work/ or to be effective.

With most major injuries I would venture to say people ignored nagging pains/ pushed things too far too soon/… I would venture to say that very few of them happen when people are staying extremely sensitive to their Penis, how things feel, are they reaching a very mild soreness, or are they pushing things to the point of pain. I would also venture to say, misinterpreting a minor injury as nothing serious could invariably lead to a major injury with continued increases to stresses on the penile tissues.

It’s like the body builder with the sore shoulder that keeps maxing out on bench every single day, and decides to be a ‘tough guy’ and ignore that pain, until the day he completely tears out his rotator cuff. Was he ‘riding the fatigue’ figuratively speaking? No.. I would say ‘riding the stupid’ or something worse….

I think some people just don’t understand that they need some fatigue in order to progress with PE. And if you can safely fatigue yourself every day without causing injury, why not do it? I’m definitely not saying to go nuts and hang all day long. But several sets a day—that’s smart if you want to gain well with hanging. People that do a good number of sets tend to report a lot more success than people only doing 1-2 sets a day. I think if you learn to read your own body, and go by feel, and if you monitor your workouts carefully, AND if you take things at a cautious pace—you are very UN-likely to get injured… even if you are ‘riding the fatigue’.

I wish I had the discipline to consistently hang 4 hours a day. Even when I have done 3 hours a day, I would usually go lighter on weekends anyway. I do agree that pushing 100% every single day is not a good idea. But I don’t think its necessary to completely abstain from hanging every few days. Just a few light sets one-two days a week then heavy the rest of the time never hurt me (or came close to hurting me). I think for a new hanger—they should take rest days, and let their penis adjust. But once your tissues are adjusted and you can easily handle the attachment point stress—I honestly think a few light days a week is enough rest. And if you’re not injured, but you feel like ‘something is wrong’ you could always just change angles for a few weeks, or even a month to pre-empt a possible injury.

I’m surprised no one has replied to my last post here.

I’m not. :mutley:

Marinera — you bring up an excellent point!!! I want to thank you for this because it got me wanting to answer those questions. Connective tissue is not the only thing we are stretching. Again safety and caution cannot be stressed enough. But I agree with Blink that as long as you don’t go overboard you should be okay. And riding the fatigue is probably safer because it provides a more chronic stress compared to the more acute stress placed on the body by hanging one’s max a few times a day.

I came across this site today and it offers some interesting things, man I miss anatomy since nursing school, I really should of went to medical school but alas I’m a poor kid :( . I think we should educate ourselves in anatomy as much as possible. There are more than one type of connective tissue, and many times they are all mixed together for added protection depending on the function at the site.
http://www.cour seweb.uottawa.c … /Default_En.htm .

Take a look at the histology sections for epithelia, connective tissue, nervous tissue, muscular tissue and male reproduction system. If you know the general overview of the penile anatomy this offers a lot information and personally answered numerous questions for me today. Though I haven’t read everything yet it is on the agenda this summer.

For instance peripheral nerves in the skin follow a zig-zag pattern to allow for stretching! Thats great news for us eh? Deeper nerves are generally wrapped in fascia or connective tissue. And from my previous knowledge of peripheral nerves they are able to heal themselves at a rate of a millimeter a day! I don’t think anyone gains that much in a day so we should be set for more hang time.

Though again safety should be a first priority. Because if nerves are severely damaged it may never heal and one should be able to tell if they damaged a nerve severely and should seek immediate medical attention (numbness that lingers is a dead giveaway).

I don’t think one should just jump into hanging 10 hours, and that might be a bit much regardless. But I feel as long as you are pretty experienced in your hanging setup and have given the skin time to stretch you should be okay to ride the fatigue for a couple hours a day. Oh and to clarify my previous posts when I said healing of the connective tissue I meant how the fatigue that can take a day or two to build up can vanish rapidly with rest days. I’m not against rest days and in all my previous routines I took them. But I’m going to give this riding the fatigue and less rest days a go. As long as your not hurt, know the difference between pain and soreness, I don’t think rest days are necessary.

The funny thing of this all is: it makes little difference in pratical terms what you do believe, as long you are an experienced PEer and are a wise guy :) .

Many, many times, people has said here: “I’m going to hanging with 15+ lbs (or whatever), 9 hours daily, 6 months straigth, and I’ll demonstrate I’m right.” I’ve never heard reliable reports of someone who has done such a thing - of course I have not read all threads on TP, so I could have missed; but, according to premises, he should have become a legend, gaining 3” or more in short time, so it’s strange I’ve missed. ;)

Everybody who tries, understands that:

a) you have to use a very low weight OR

b) you have to do it for less time OR

c) you’ll have an injury.

I’m making a very simple point here:

If the penis can heal while stressed, why taking a day off when you are really fatigued? There isn’t a way anybody can answer this question, other than that: you should use, for most of time, a weight that isn’t causing any appreciable needs to heal. :)

And I’m making this point not for the sake of blaming this or this other (true or supposed) big gainer; I’m saying that to protect novices, who could got this wrong message : “The most weight and time you hang, the more you gain.”. There is a range of weight and time - you have to be in that range to have gains. It’s true for any type of PE, why going ahead believing it’s not true for hanging?

Marinera, how much experience do you personally have hanging?

>”The most weight and time you hang, the more you gain.”.

I don’t think anyone here is advocating that. I’m certainly not. As you said, a balance is required. We have 3 main variables to play with: duration, intensity and frequency. All are inversely related in the sense that as one increases the other two decrease to some extent.

Hanging requires a decent amount of time under tension. Often, life’s demands constrain the practical amount. I’m sure many guys who would like to hang for longer are limited to only an hour or two per day. And many gain, at least at stages during their PE careers*, from putting in 1-2 hours. Again, nobody knows exactly how much is ideal.

Intensity — the amount of weight or tension used — is something we want to minimize. Having to hang heavy weight (properly, for real, not dangling 30 lbs. from skin just to snap a pic), isn’t fun. Even using excellent equipment, issues arise. Attachment soreness, fluid bloat in front of the wrap, etc. So, we want to minimize this variable, which leads to the last:

Frequency. Minimizing recovery (time off) increases the overall workload and seemingly helps avoid strengthening/conditioning. At least it does according to feel, and feel is what we’re using as a gauge. Taking a day or several off, then having to add weight plus spend a while (perhaps several days) just to get back to the feeling of where you left off runs contrary to the goal of minimizing the weight required.

Now, put all that together. Use the least amount of weight necessary to maintain a good stretched feeling for a decent amount of time, and don’t take rest days. If you’re feeling a bit overworked, hang fewer sets for a day or several until you’re back in the groove. If you’re not feeling enough, hang more sets if you can for a few days. Add weight when you must.

*Another issue: A newbie can do most any semi-sensible PE routine to reap any easy gains he may have available. As time goes on, gaining becomes more difficult.