My PE-tragedy

I’m sorry to post this in the newbie-forum (Don’t want to scare any new members), but for some reason I wasn’t able to post in the main forum. Anyway this is how the story goes..

I started PEing about a year ago. At first I didn’t know much about it, and I seemed to injure myself again and again, but nothing too serious. Then I found this forum and started doing quite a lot of research, found some reasonable PE-routines and did experience some gains. According to the ruler I didn’t gain much, but my penis felt bigger, and the erections were better (most of the time). I found it hard to jelq at 70-80 % so most of the time I wet-jelqed at 90-100 %, which resulted in some bad PI’s at times, but I also seemed to be gaining a bit from it. I tried to experiment with different kinds of lube (to find out, which kind was better), but the wet-jelqing started to require more and more. I discovered that besides from the discoloration, the jelqing had resulted in a whole lot of extra skin (this became very obvious during a deacon-break, when both length and girth decreased).

Experiencing these difficulties with the jelqing, I started focusing more on the stretching (still doing some jelqing, though, but only dry jelqing). In the beginning I always experienced bad EQ after stretching, but it seemed like my penis got used to it little by little. Then it even started requiring a daily set of stretches, and it took more and more to maintain the good EQ. When I realized, that I had probably been way to hard on the little fellow for two months or so, I decided to take a serious break from PE.

At that point my erection quality (which was already bad) started to get very, very bad (and of course it didn’t get better from focusing on it), and I wondered if I would ever “function” again without PEing. I tell you, I was loosing my mind, I was depressed, desperate like never before. And I could only blame myself! But instead of jumping of some bridge, I went to the doctor. I got some pills, but they didn’t give me back my good old Woodie. However, they didn’t even seem to work very well..

The thing is, I can still get a hard on, it’s just not as hard as it used to be (at all). And the extra skin makes it seem even even softer. The angle is barely 90 degrees. And the worst thing is that it is so very loose at the root that I can turn it around 360 degrees when it’s erect (I mean, touching my stomach and my thighs (legs) and it doesn’t hurt the slightest bit). It’s like the ligaments disappeared completely. My girlfriend hasn’t commented too much on it, but it’s obvious that she wonders what the hell has been going on with the penis during the last year..

Well this is my PE-story. At the time I’m considering to get circumcised to get rid of some of that extra skin. I was so happy when I found this page, and I really tried to put a lot of effort in to it, and for a year my penis was the most important thing in my life. I got some gains, and I saw changes, but when I quit the good changes disappeared and left me with an old mans penis. They say some people just can’t do it, and this might just be right..

The funny thing is that I still keep hoping, hoping that there’s something I can do about it. Wondering if PE could help me to get my old penis back if not a better one. If I only had a mentor or some professional to tell me what to do, or even to confirm that PE is not for me - at least then it would be easier to leave the thought of returning to PE.

I don’t know what kind of comments I expect to get from this post, but I know that I would really appreciate anything right know.

A circumcision isn’t going to solve your problem and will probably make the situation worse. If you haven’t already you should stop all PE exercises. You’re already above average. Give yourself a long break, at least a month, and see if things improve.

I really think that you over worked it over and over again to the point where you damaged it. I would just start up a very very simple routine and go from there. May be your dick response well to PEing. Mine doesn’t at all. I have to beat the shit out of it just to get any kind of gains. I think we all have a tendency to over work it because of the ideas and excitement of having a bigger dick (I know this applies to me). But as soon as I realized that the only way to grow is to get on a consistent plan and really pay attention to your PIs I started to get real gains. They came slowly but they are real and it shows. I have made PEing part of my daily routine so that it doesn’t hinder my day. I really think that if you do some kegels and start out with some messaging and easy stretching that you will gain more than what your dick use to be. Also I have had to take some time off because my dick wouldn’t respond either and if it did it was weak. I found out that I was just over working it and it needed a rest. Once I figured out that I just needed a break and that my dick didn’t die on me I had a better outlook on future PEing and now I’m bigger than ever. I think you should really just start thinking more positive and start a gentle routine. You should be back in no time. Just go slow. Let me know how things go as you progress.

Really good post Otis.

I agree that rest is needed, I also think kegels will help bring back your normal EQ.

Most guys make the mistake of trying to rip their dicks off with jelques. A really good rule of thumb is when you are done with your PE for the day, you should be able to get good hard wood. If you can’t you are probably doing too much.

When you restart, use modest force when you jelque, it should be pleasant. Also I’m a big fan of starting with a small amount of time, like 3-5 minutes.

Not enough PE will still improve EQ, just no gains. Too much PE will drop your EQ. So when you re-start, make sure your EQ is improving first and foremost.

If it starts to go downhill right away, you are doing too much, and I don’t care if its 2 minutes! HOWEVER, if under 5 minutes is dropping your EQ, you are still gripping and pulling too hard. Remember, you should be able to get good wood when you finish.

So, if you aren’t over doing it, and EQ is going up, you are on the right track. After a couple weeks of great EQ and no gains, multiply your time by about 1.10-1.15, this will give you a increase in your time between 10-15%.

Keep it at this range for a few days. If its right, you may drop your EQ slightly, thats ok. Big drop in EQ is NOT ok, and it means drop the percentage of increase.

After a while, your EQ should start to climb again (days to weeks). During this time, measure your bpfsl daily and see if you start to gain. WHEN you start to gain, make a note of your EQ level on a one to ten scale. Consider 10 to be your best EQ, 0 is no erection at all, and 5 about your average EQ.

You will probably find that you get your best growth somewhere between 7-10. When you find your level that you gain at…thats a critical number.

When your EQ rises ABOVE that number, use your multiplier to increase your time (lets say you found 1.10 works best), if you find its is dropping below that EQ number, cut down on your time…you’re doing too much.

When you find the EQ number that works best for you, keep it at that level by using your multiplier when you rise above, and it should (when you dial it in) drop it back down to the EQ level you gain best at.

If after using this for a few cycles successfully, that is, you have made gains, and you repeat it with no gains, its a good chance you need a 2 or more week decon.

Thanks for your mails all,

Westla: I don’t see why circumcision wouldn’t be a good idea. Can you explain it to me, please? By the way, I’ve not been PEing for two months and although my EQ has gotten better, it’s not as good as it used be (both before and during PE). I seem to have lost my gains (both girth and length), and that’s why I have all this extra skin know.

Otis: I agree, I overworked my unit. But the extra skin and the lower angle seem to be permanent damages (unless someday I’ll fill out my skin and have excellent EQ). I don’t think I’m going to do anymore stretching ever again. I had a low LOT even when I started, and I’m quite sure that I damaged my ligaments badly. I only used my hands, but I don’t feel pain easily, and that might just be my problem.

And finally to the great Sparkyx who makes PE a real science (by the way, did you ever find out if a cool down was better than a warm down?): Thanks a lot for commenting on this mail. I read most of what you’ve been writing on this page, I think, and I really like your theories. However, EQ (which is very central in your theories) can be hard to determine since it is also affected by psychological factors (feeling horny, stress and even fear of a bad EQ!) - even your morning wood can bee affected by this. Since I don’t feel pain easily, and I damages myself badly, I will always worry about a bad EQ, and this might cause a bad EQ. I don’t know if you have any advice regarding the psychological bias?

Also, I think I might start jelqing again after some time, and maybe just jelq. But I need to do something about my skin problem (I prefer to wet jelq), what do you recommend? And do you know any devices for very gentle jelqing?

I’ve thought about upward stretching and jelqing at the base as solutions to my low angle (which IS caused by permanently loose ligament due to downward stretching and stretching to the sides). But I want to do it all in a very gentle manner. I figured that if it was thicker at the base it might be “stronger”.

I thought very much about quitting PE entirely because at least I still function (more or less), but if I could PERMANENTLY better my situation (condition) by gently PEing for a year or two (NOT PERMANENTLY) I would be very, very grateful. I don’t even worry about the gains anymore, since they don’t seem to be permanent in my case. But I would really, really like to get back my well functional unit as it used to be. Even if it should take a lot of work. But without risking to permanently damage myself.

I know I used the word “permanent” quite a lot in the above, but if the bad changes are permanent (which they more or less seem to be - skin, loose ligaments, bad EQ), and the good changes (good EQ, size gains) are not permanent, you will be committed to PEing for the rest of your life, which might be a problem to some.

I’m really hoping to hear more from you, because I need some advice to go on, thanks a lot,

BD

First of all, I disagree with those who say you should re-start your PE exercises. If you have caused serious damage with high erection percentage jelqing you need to give it a lot of time to heal.

You’re saying that your problem is poor erections and loose ligaments. How will removing the most sensitive part of the penis help that? Extra skin does not contribute to or detract from erection quality. It just makes it look soft, as you yourself said, “The thing is, I can still get a hard on, it's just not as hard as it used to be (at all). And the extra skin makes it seem even even softer.” I’d refer you to some anti-circumcision sites for a whole list of reasons not to remove your foreskin, but they’re easily found by using an Internet search engine and looking for “circumcision.”

Desperation and depression will also contribute to your erection quality problems.

“At that point my erection quality (which was already bad) started to get very, very bad (and of course it didn\’t get better from focusing on it), and I wondered if I would ever “function” again without PEing. I tell you, I was loosing my mind, I was depressed, desperate like never before. And I could only blame myself!”

You’re still able to attain an erection, that’s good. It’s not as strong as it used to be and you understand why. You need to stop doing what caused your problem and give yourself a long time to heal. Try to understand that, with time, the body can deal with many problems on its own. Try to look forward to improved erection quality by understanding that your mental state does affect it and work on improving that part of you.

As far as the circumcision goes, if the excess skin is interfering with sex, is causing pain, or is directly contributing to your depression, then get it removed. If you can understand the longer foreskin is only a sign of past PE workouts and does not, by itself, affect your erections then it’s one of the best things to have attached to your penis. I wish I still had mine.

First of all, listen to Westla. Unfortunately, many new guys have no idea who they are taking advice from. They are more likely to take advice from some guy that doesn’t know anything, and pass up on a seasoned Vet. West is not only a seasoned Vet, he is also an MD…so you are indeed lucky that he has taken the time to help you!

Second, I first wrote about EQ almost 2 years ago. Then as now, EQ was the TOTALITY of Erectile quality. Unfortunately, it seems to have distilled down to the one factor of hardness, which while useful, is not the concept and lack accuracy.

EQ is the sum total of hardness, frequency, duration,ease of erection, nite and morning wood. Those are the majors, but I think you could even add things like refractory period. You observe all that you are capable of observing, then see if OVERALL it is improving or decreasing.

If you look at the totality, it eliminates the variables of nervousness, not enough sleep etc. If you just look at hardness, you will not get an accurate read on your EQ. After observing the totality of your EQ, you might find that one or two factors can give you a fairly good read, then thats fine.

Take me for example. I have found that my performance with my wife and nite wood are two factors that really give me an accurate read. When my EQ is highest, I get nite wood most of the nite and it gets rock hard. My EQ is always confirmed when I have sex with my wife. Easy to get hard, stays hard for as long as I want, gets very hard, etc. But I don’t suffer from performance anxiety.

So, you must observe all the aspects of your erectile function and over some time you will see those that give you an accurate read. Lets say you get rock hard easily with porn, but when you are dating a new girl, it doesn’t get hard.

Well, if it can get rock hard at ANYTIME, that indicates really high EQ, if you can’t get hard around a new girl, it indicates nervousness, psychological. Psychological factors are not part of EQ!

OR if you are stressing about your EQ and it seems poor, yet at nite, you get awakened by rock hard wood. This indicates your EQ is very good, but again, psychological factors.

So observe the totality and it will give you a far more accurate view and understanding of your EQ.

Sorry Sparks, I’ve said many times that I’m not a physician. I do work in the medical field and provide direct patient care, but I’m not a doctor.

Westla: Thanks a lot for clarifying your opinion regarding the circumcision. This definitely makes me reconsider my decision. I think your are right, when you say I should take the time needed to fully heal before restarting my exercises. You’re probably right, when you say that the body will deal with the problems on it’s own (the ligaments are not as loose as they have been, and perhaps the skin will tighten, or someday my penis will be big enough to fill it out). The skin takes some sensation, but the circumcision would probably make me lose even more sensation (and I guess there’s no such thing as being partly circumcised, or having just some skin removed). Well, for now I’m continuing my break, and I’m looking forward to restarting my exercises, but I’ll not begin before I feel fully healed. For now I’ll try to speed up the process by kegeling as much as possible (even though I hate it!) Thanks a lot Westla.

Sparkyx: Thanks for the elaborate definition of EQ. I think I’ll always be able to get some kind of erection when watching porn, for example, but I should still look at the ease of attaining the erection, the hardness, if it lasts without stimulation etc. (That is the quality!). This is probably why I ended up over training so much (I was able to get a rock hard erection, so I thought I was okay, but it was getting harder and harder to attain, and the quality of the erection got poorer). I normally don’t get a rock hard nite wood (although it happens), so this is not a sign of bad EQ for me (however, in periods of successful PEing I do get the hard nite wood, so that’s a sign of very, very good EQ for me). I experienced that after a few days without sex or masturbation my EQ lowers (although I’m pretty horny, I think.), while if I have good sex with my girlfriend twice a day or more my erection is normally rock hard. Is this normal? Because it makes no sense to me, but when I don’t use my penis it gets lazy..

As I said I’m going to start with some kegels, and then I might start some super gentle exercises when I feel ready. I mean I can live with my penis now, so I’ll just take small steps.

I heard about air-clamping and wondered if this could be good for me. I could use an air-clamp for upward stretching (is that a good idea?) and maybe somehow for jelqing. And then I invented my own jelqing-device (I’ve just thought about it):

If you had a cylinder on each side of the penis (pressed onto the penis by some device), then you could jelq by rolling it up the shaft, which wouldn’t stretch the skin. Okay, this was a bit difficult to explain, but does anything like this exist. If anybody can recommend any gentle devices or methods that do not stretch neither skin nor ligaments I would appreciate every input.

Thanks a lot Westla and Sparkyx. I really appreciate your advice. I would, however, very much like a comment on what I wrote in the above:
“I thought very much about quitting PE entirely because at least I still function (more or less), but if I could PERMANENTLY better my situation (condition) by gently PEing for a year or two (NOT PERMANENTLY) I would be very, very grateful. I don’t even worry about the gains anymore, since they don’t seem to be permanent in my case. But I would really, really like to get back my well functional unit as it used to be. Even if it should take a lot of work. But without risking to permanently damage myself.”

Corrections:

“I normally don’t get a rock hard nite wood (although it happens), so this is not a sign of bad EQ for me”

I mean, it’s not necessarily a bad sign.. I sometimes experienced a very soft nite wood, but I don’t know if this is better than no nite wood or if it should be hard if it’s there?

“I could use an air-clamp for upward stretching”

I mean, I could also use this clamp for upwards hanging.

Oh, now I found it. The device. I thought I’d seen it somewhere, but I couldn’t remember where. It’s called a “power jelq”-device. Seems like it works for some and not for others. But it might improve my EQ, and shouldn’t stretch the skin (since the rollers roll, right?). And it comes with the PeniMaster (is this similar to the “Static Stretcher”?) on some website for 260 dollars (-30% = 188 dollars) or alone for 70 dollars. Or I could make one myself, but I’m normally not very good with my hands. It’s a bit expensive.

Are you supposed to use it on the sides of the shaft, or the top and bottom? It’s probably not very good, but it shouldn’t stretch the skin I guess.

PJ doesn’t really ‘roll’ per se- rather it does slide up and down the shaft and does pull the skin along for the ride— in which case your ‘extra’ skin will serve you well.

Your root/ligs will loosen with age- and I think PE also does loosen them but as I was older and already had ‘lost’ that high and tight erection angle I can’t really speak to it- what I can say is that I’ve yet to meet a woman who has an issue with my low hanging fruit.
Unless it is 100% erection I too can touch it to my thigh— with no loss of functionality. Note that a standing jackhammer requires the capacity for a straight down erection and is not uncommon in US porn.
I wouldn’t be concerned.

I too was blessed with a generous amount of shaft skin and have never thought is a drawback, whether for PE or any manner of sexual activity- I’ve only ever dry jelqed and prefer it for neatness sake.
But then I’ve never used lube for jacking off either.

Search about here and you’ll find relatively simple instructions for a homemade PowerJelqer [PJ]- using in fact the exact same frame that the commercial PJ uses. I don’t do DIY either, but if I’d known about TP and the PJ plan I’d have done it and spent USD 5 instead of USD 70.

As to the PeniMaster [PM]— if you’re interested in ADS, then I cannot strongly enough recommend monkeybar’s gear- not ‘bargain pricing’, but considering that you will actually use it? Pays for itself.
Since switching over to his Vac head approach, I’ve logged well in excess of 300 hours.
Over the last six weeks.
Not too bad.

Listen to west and sparky- leave your junk alone altogether for a minimum of two weeks, and perhaps much longer. Leave it alone.
After a couple of weeks you may engage in a little light therapeutic[/I] [not ‘erotic’] massage at the end of a long hot shower— not jelq- just from very light manipulation to assist recovery.
If you begin to stiffen then stop.

After a few more weeks you may well be able to incorporate some very light stretching- again, bear in mind that this is therapy— NOT ‘PE’.

Some NoX may help with bloodflow, which supports healing.

Make haste s-l-o-w-l-y, be the tortoise.

[Not the turtle ;) ]

Thanks Andro!

Hmm… I’m surprised the PJ doesn’t roll. It seemed to be the perfect device, but the rolling might not give a good jelq either. So it’s really just a device for ordinary dry or wet jelqing. The dry jelq shouldn’t stretch the skin so much, but I find wet jelqing much easier (when using my hands at least - I have very long and bony fingers, and not that big a girth - this device might make dry jelqing easier and more gentle) But did you try it, and would you recommend it? Maybe I can make one for myself that rolls (if I can even get the stuff needed for it in this country).

I get your point about the ligaments. But I still don’t want to do anymore downwards stretching at any price. The standing jackhammer SHOULD be just a bit painful, I think :) The skin is a bit of a problem for me during sexual activity. If my girlfriend is not soaking wet, the skin is like stuck, and my penis is moving back and forward inside of it. And this gives less sensation both for me and her. Regarding the ligaments, it feels very different for me having sex with a loose penis, but she didn’t mention it. But it has to be very erect not to look or seem weak… But I’m glad to hear I shouldn’t worry too much about my low hanging fruit ;)

I feel that my penis is getting healthier, and I’m definitely not going to rush in to anything but therapy for the next month or so (I’ve started kegeling a lot). This is why I’m doing some research on gentle devices. Could you pass me a link for Monkeybar’s gear, so I could check it out. Otherwise I might find it when doing some reading on different devices. So this device your speaking about stretches the shaft or both the shaft and the ligaments?

I already took a few pills for the blood flow, but the were very expensive. I wouldn’t want to get used to taking this kind of pills. More physical activity and less smoking should do the job (I’m kind of ashamed to be a smoker, since it’s no good for PEing, but in my DOWN period (depression or whatever) I slipped right back in - planning to cut the smokes before restarting PE, though…)

Again, thanks a lot Andro! I would very much like to hear from you again. And every input about gentle methods are welcomed. Thanks to everybody trying to help me out of this miserable situation. Your support is really helpful…

Sounds like you have damaged your suspensory ligaments. I’m not sure how/if that can be repaired without surgery.

I think you have nothing, Big Dane.

If your suspensory ligs were damaged, you had pain. They are symply overworked, so less elastics and less strong.

Take a deconditioning break, and if you have any residual doubt, ask a MEd.