Connective Tissue Paradox

I’ve been thinking lately on the mechanisms of PE, and I am a bit confused. Feel like I need to wrap my head around some basic physiology.

Let’s say someone hangs at 5 lbs and over the course of a 20-minute set, this pulls his penis to his current maximum FSL. Over time his body adapts, and he requires 7.5 lbs in his sets to get an adequate stretch for gains.

Pause right there. What happened?

When I work on splits, if I stretch my legs 135 degrees without training it feels like my groin muscles will snap. After getting some practice, maybe I can do 180 degrees effortlessly. It seems here that the more I stretch the muscles and CTs, the less force I need to stretch further. At the very least, it doesn’t seem like I’m applying less pressure when untrained and stretching 135 degrees.

This would seem to mean that for PE, the level of resistance should never go up (or need to), but I know that’s not true.

When the hanger progresses from 5 to 7.5 lbs, what exactly is going on? Have the tissues toughened to the point at which 5 lbs will no longer bring him to maximum FSL, and if so, isn’t this bad for erection purposes? That is, if it starts requiring more force to fully expand the penis, won’t that make it harder for the blood flow to do its job?

I feel like I have to be totally missing something here, but I don’t know what. Insight appreciated!

What you are missing is “bones” as bones have a much greater range of motion, joints design withstanding, than bones with ligaments and muscle groups attached and covered by skin.

Your muscles are not the same sort of tissue found in your penis either. So a reality of needing more weight to stretch further is based on you not stretching a joint for greater motion but different tissues for a length increase.

If you want a truly comparable situation that your joints relate to, go into traction. Traction for bones takes far longer than PE traction (as it is 24 hours a day for several months on and, racking way over 1500 hours which is the common PE traction maximum quotation) and that is just to get you healed close to where you were before and restore you to functional, much less any taller than you were to start with.

Let me elaborate on what’s confusing me. Consider two scenarios.

A: Bob stretches his penis with 5 lbs of weight. This brings him to his maximum FSL of 6 inches. A few sessions later, his TA has toughened to the point where 5 lbs only stretches his penis out to 5 inches, unless he hangs for more time than usual.

B: Bob stretches his penis with 5 lbs of weight. It will always be enough to reach his maximum FSL (even with a set time period), but will not always be enough for him to gain.

Which one is true, and why?

If I do toe-touches to stretch my hamstrings, I can increase the intensity of the stretch (and therefore the length of my outstretched hamstrings) by dropping more of my bodyweight forward and down. Over time, however, we expect that I’ll be able to stretch further without using much pressure at all.

Why isn’t this the case for the penis? Of course the penis is not comprised of skeletal muscle, but it seems to me that all the same principles would apply here.

One thing to point out, and I see this a lot (not a vet, just read the forums a lot), is that people will make comparisons with other body parts and other techniques.

Weight lifting and PE are not the same. Stretching and PE are not the same

That said, the penis is a part of the body. Surely there is some overlap between other exercises and PE.

Still, I see people comparing PE to say weight lifting directly and it just jumps out at me that you have to realize the difference. The biceps contract and our forearm is pulled in. This is a natural function. Our penis on the other hand.. It’s natural function is to fill with blood by a specific mechanism. It’s actually a relaxation, not a contraction (unless I’m mistaken).

Just pointing out that PE sometimes involves alien forces/ pressures/mechanisms in the sense that we can’t replicate them with out mind (mind body connection like squeezing the biceps in contraction). We are trying to replicate or intensify certain things, but the force is being inacted on our penis, against it.

Also pay attention to the anatomy. Ligaments vs muscle (smooth muscle vs…other types), skin, veins… Etc
I like these topics though. Good to think about it.

Others opinions?

In the analogy, once you have taken all that time stretching to do the splits effortlessly - you have “gained” range of motion there. So by analogy, when you gain length from PE, you can then effortlessly stretch to your old length. In splits training, one eventually reaches a maximum range of motion. No analogous situation exists with training PE for length, you can just keep gaining.

You’re missing the length part of the equation. It’s easier to understand if you consider how an extender works. With the extender you start at a specific length and increase the tension till you get to the max tension and with enough time under tension the tissues adapt to that length and then you add length to the extender and start the process over.

With hanging there is no opportunity to add length. You stretch at a particular weight until the tissues have stretched as much as possible and have remodeled, stabilized at that new length. At that point to make more progress you would have to either deload to decondition the tissues and then go at it again with the same weight(no one does this is would take too long) or increase the weight which would stretch the tissues more and start the process of adaptation at the increased length(due to more stretch from the heavier weight).

The stretching adaptation is pretty simple the key is not to overdo it because then you will be strengthening the tissues more so than stretching.

Hope this helps.

The real paradox is is the stretching-strengthening continuum regarding connective tissue. That’s the key learning here. What is referred to as the “sweet spot”. You want the smallest amount of force that will cause lengthening with the minimal amount of strengthening. That will maximize the amount of lengthening before hitting a wall.

That’s why you will see the veterans here admonish too aggressive of an approach.

Thats the key.

But how can we find the smallest amount of force that will cause lengthening with no strengthening at manual stretching?

Back when I first started PE, I was on the PEGym forums and there was often much gnashing of teeth over all mechanical methods (hanging, extending, clamping, pumping, etc) being “too advanced/extreme” for newbies.

I don’t understand that. Is hanging with 1 pound of weight “extreme”? What about clamping with half the tightness of your average cock ring?

One major advantage of mechanical methods, as I see it, is that the intensity can be adjusted as low or high or needed, and this can be tracked with hard numbers.

I think a lot of it came down to fetishizing what is thought to be “natural”, as if PE is a natural thing to be doing whatsoever anyway. Even if it were, natural does not necessarily mean effective, safe, good, etc.

Not trying to hate on manual methods either, I know many have had success with them, but I think it pays to be aware of their drawbacks and limitations.

The limitations of manual exercises are still outside of the scope of expertise for newbies. The safe usage limits of clamping and other methods are also unknown and it has an implicit expense to start with. PE shouldn’t be a buy-in to get bigger. Otherwise we are the same snake oil salesmen that get ads on pornhub between videoes.

Fact is until the newbie learns on manuals he wastes money and runs a huge injury risk with mechanical methods more often than not.

If you want to get fit at home do you start with a weight bench if you’ve never benched or used weights? Or pushups and sit ups?

Or do you put 10lbs on either side of your Olympic weight bench bar? This is analogous to you suggesting a half clamped clamp or a 1lb hangar.

There’s a progression. Stay with it and reap the benefits is the idea.

But people will do as they like. As long as the effort to make this point is made, most of us will give any newbie what tips we can, even if they make a poor choice against our advice.

When I say limitations of manuals, I mean the issue that you cannot quantify what pressure you’re applying with numeric precision, not the amount of pressure that can be applied (though that is an issue for many, further down the road).

I think every newbie should familiarize himself with jelqing at least, since it’s an essential supplement to every routine.

I don’t think a $2-3 clamp is a waste of money. We’re not selling anything, people can use any brand they like. I use a Cable Cuff from Home Depot, but they don’t pay me anything to say that, haha. Plenty of instructions for DIY devices as well.

We’re also different from porn ADS in that what we recommend can actually work.

If you want to get good at bench press, I would recommend bench pressing, even if you have to start at light weight. Practice what you want to do.

The smooth muscle is contracted when soft, right? So I think stretching can quite feasibly be compared to isometric strengthening of the smooth muscles.

I don’t know if it’s the case that it’s an entirely different mechanism of growth, unless there is no myofibrilar hypertrophy whatsoever in the smooth muscle.

thoughtfulgold i am very interested in your opinion.

I know that we have expamples on this forum of people who have gained 1.5-2 only with manuals. But do you believe that is possible for someone to achieve 2 inch gains without devices?

I believe that with manual stretching and especially fulcrum stretching you can apply very good tension on the whole shaft and you can target the tunica better than hanging or extender. Thats for length, i know that girth is an other story.

Thanks for the responses, by the way, I’m starting to get a clearer idea of how PE functions and progresses.

It is easily possible to gain 2” without devices. The issue becomes how long this will take and how well the penis in question responds to manual exercises. Some people do not gain as much as others from manuals. This is fact.

Theory has been posed on differing starting sizes versus gain patterns. Nothing concrete exists but I would wager that starting size and proper manual PE have a huge effect and more men who start smaller (or just more desperate mentally) have more frustration learning the exercises as they are often less patient. Those are the folks who turn to devices early after claiming manuals failed them.

So for a gain of 2” without devices many criteria must be met. And it is difficult to say who has that potential or who will meet it. So, this is why we only recommend 3-6 months on the Newbie Routine to acclimate a man to PE but give him the space to decide his next move in a more informed fashion.

Learning PE and whether you are willing to put the time and effort in is a process in itself and many start PE with a device and quit. Money needs not be wasted if you can’t stick with the practice. Once you learn it, 2” is simply a matter of time. Perhaps a very long time, maybe including devices, but a matter of time nonetheless.