Girth theory: Pumping vs. clamping

Nice post JohnnyClang.

What kind of pressure do you use in your pump? Because

>That is, by themselves jelqes (sic) do not apply that much force (compared to pumping) to the tunica<

seems to indicate that maybe you are pumping hard and not jelqing that hard.

Welcome to the forum, you seem to be thinking about all the right things.

Typically between 5 inHg for my first set, and up to 9 inHg max in my second set, cycling, but not for long at those high pressures - maybe 10 sec.
I find entering the pump with a 100% erection and kegelling as much blood as possible seems to do the trick.

I’m a newbie, but learning fast. I made 0.2 in gain in girth in my first 4 days. Seems to be permanent - time will tell. Perhaps stretched the tunica a little. But my cock felt like it had done 10 rounds with mike Tyson afterwards, so I’m taking it easier now (not with the pump, but with the jelqes and stretches).

I use an air pump with good pressure accuracy and control.

Right now I’m using the x40, and I can definitely see how water pulls more when the liquid shifts as I point the pump up/down . My routine is a few mins at high vacuum then clamping, rinse repeat. I find doing my jelqs after pumping is little quirky so I skip that, but I never skip my twisted stretches pre-pumping.

I tried twisted stretches with pumping as well in my first 4 days. I think the twists are really good at preparing the tunica and making it more supple - a good benefit when used with a pump. But I think it was the twists that made me most sore, so I’ve given up on them for a while until my cock gets a bit tougher. I think they are not for newbies.

You only do enough to get into the jelly state friend they’re really powerful. If I do more than a few minutes I turtle, and my erection suffers a bit. Some days like I said ill have crazy boners, and then skip bundles because the sheer force of erections makes for very easy expansion regardless.

That last bit is actually a very good conclusion. Epic post!

JohnnyClang,

Yeah probably a good idea to avoid twists to start with. There’s a tendency to throw the kitchen sink at this early on and then you find you have nowhere to go when the simple stuff stops working. I must admit that twisted stretches worry me from a mechanical perspective: it seems like a good way of increasing stress in an uncontrolled manner on small sections of tissue and the nerves are quite fragile as well.

Sounds like you are pumping at a good pressure. In regard to jelqing, you pretty much already mentioned it in your earlier post, but there’s a shear force working in jelqing as well ahead of and around the grip, so it’s not a simple static pressure model, making a comparison to pumping harder.

You might like this video for your anatomy knowledge.

Google some pics of collagen fibers, and see how they run perpendicular. Knowing this it makes sense to splay them diagonally (twisted stretches, fulcrums, jelqs) rather than perpendicular which is where they are strongest (basic stretches). It’s a more efficient way of stretching right? I know xenolith does all kinds of crazy shit ensuring he hits every single fibril, and you know how gainful he is

Watch the video memento posted above, it’s very informative. Collagen fibers in the penis don’t just run perpendicular, but another layer runs around as well. I doubt that exerting diagonal force on those fibers has more impact than simple linear stretching. What does happen is that the inner layer (the one that has the fibers arranger in a circle) is stretched too, and that might help girth gains. Not length.

Yes true it does encourage expansion like how xeno uses his tunica tenderizer before pumping. They offer a softening effect like heat so its always good to remember twists as a ‘pre-workout’ implement.

Given all this discussion on the merits of different exercises what do you all think is the best order to do them in ?

Seems to me jelq, stretch, pump.

Any thoughts ?

Stretches, jelq then pump, this is how I do it: from less aggressive, letting the heavier for last.

In the future, will be doing squeezes and then clamping. Interested to follow a discussion about this (pump then clamp or clamp then pump).

I am no pe expert but have a general knowledge of how this works. I know there is smooth muscle tissue in the penis. It can grow through three or four mechanisms. Hyperplasia hypertrophy and through the fibroblasts. So I think the best way to get growth is stretching of all manners. I know the tunica is important I would guess it would stretch with time under tension as well as the rest of the penis. And in my opinion once the penis is ready could you not let’s say keep your main routine the same. Stretching and jelqing maybe hanging. And let’s say pump 2 weeks clamp 2 weeks then super set them for one then take a week off then repeat. To keep your body guessing. Muscle works similar to most tissue.

Plastic deformation is important in this discussion because of its efforts on the tissue and creating new tissue. So doing what the body leasts expects is the key to maintaining the growth we are looking for and short breaks to allow the body to get used to a stagnate state again. Similar to bodybuilding for most natural bb’s have to cut and bulk. The keg is to get as big as possible then put your body back in a growing state by taking g away what it was adjusting to. So pumping and clamping and breaks should all work. Clamping more so but I am by no means to that level in any way.

Well that was a heck of a read… a lot of great ideas were thrown in the mix, even if the majority of this thread wandered off the titular subject. A number of concepts sound brilliant, but I noticed a few conclusions based on misconceptions and faulty logic.

I’m not going to appeal to my education or knowledge; if anyone has a grasp of mathematics and physics, my take should make some sense. My numbers may not be perfectly accurate, but the argument is relative. I just want to show how pressure works. To be honest, pudendum’s conclusions were fairly close, but the take away probably should have been "proper jelqs are better than either clamping or pumping", which may be somewhat ironic.

PRESSURE
The first thing that needs to be cleared up is how little difference there is between the two mechanisms (and please catch me if I overlook something here). The tunica is a membrane which is always subject to pressures… on both sides. The atmosphere is about 30 inHg. Human blood pressure is 120/80; in inches that’s 4.7/3.15 inHg. That means (in a healthy human at rest) there is always around 33-35 inHg on the inside of the penis and 30 inHg on the outside. This is just enough to maintain a flaccid hang of what is a fairly sturdy but flexible organ.

Now, when pumping, there’s no "pulling" involved, the only thing that changes is that air pressure drops from baseline atmospheric (29.9 inHg). I think the most common pumping amount I’ve heard is ~3 inHg, so if we were pumping flaccid at this level, it would look like this:

33-35 inHg >|< 27 inHg

If we introduce an erection, the internal pressure will increase as well, creating a greater differential pressure. I couldn’t find an absolute answer for this, but according to this thread - Erectile Pressure - an erection is about 6 inHg. Since the erection is mainly isolated (the CC no longer has a pulse) we have this:

36 inHg >|< 27 inHg

Now we kegel! According to the Lavoisier study quoted earlier, from "Journal of Urology 136 (1986)", the kegel was measured to increase pressure between 4-22.6 inHg. Therefore, suppose our incredible athlete can produce this:

58 inHg >|< 27 inHg

If we replace the pump with a clamp, there are only two changes. The easy one is external pressure, which is neutral again (atmospheric pressure). The "hard" one is the function of the clamp as a fulcrum, which I don’t have the math for, but from experience we know is quite significant. In this case:

58+? inHg >|< 30 inHg

Again, the numbers are not critical. The point I want to drive home is whether you clamp or pump, you are simply tipping the balance of pressure, which exerts directional force on the tunica. It’s irrelevant whether you are "pulling" or "pushing" the compliance of the tunica only effects how much it expands (and thins and tightens etc.), not how much force it is subject to. pudendum also made mention of the pressure dropping inside the CC because of this volume increase, but this is also irrelevant. The pressure created inside is limited by the strength of your ICS muscle, which is the same whether your girth is 4" or 7".

FLUID - Though it’s been mentioned and I think most will say it’s a lesser issue, it bears summary. I believe that fluid is inevitable and variable depending on your methods. Some people get more with pumping and some more with clamping. I get it at the base near the clamp, but I think it’s because I’m always edging and accidentally pushing it downward! Others probably get a lot less clamping because the clamp isolates the penis from the body more so than the pump… with the pump it just leaks in from more directions. The bottom line is both clamping and pumping produce a pressure differential from the circulatory system to the extra-cellular spaces, so both can produce edema.

COMPLIANCE
The second misconception that must be addressed is the notion of working on the tunica while it is compliant, i.e. "pumping with a semi" etc. I think pudendum hit on something critical here, but he seemed to have misinterpreted it.

The penis has fibers that run lengthwise and fibers that run circumferentially. Sure, they are coiled up when flaccid, but to gain erect length and girth, they must stretch or grow longer, there is no other mechanism unless somehow your elastic fibers are so strong you never actually have 100% erection (which would technically be a genetic defect if it is even possible). Whether lengthwise or girthwise, we must apply tension to those fibers. Just like stretching a spring with a given amount of force- the spring extends and compliance drops until a balance is achieved or the spring breaks (please god no). Now pudendum’s conclusion that we must aim to over-stretch our girth without stretching lengthwise is probably very good insight, but this cannot be achieved in a cylinder unless there is something mashing down our glans (like the dishrag analogy… the pump is that other guy pulling the mesh lengthwise), forcing all expansion in a radial direction. Therefore I’m not sure I see the benefit of pumping semi… the tunica can still be pumped to an over-extended dimension (like the spring), but the only difference is the internal pressure will be lower, since you are trying to create a pressure differential with the entire circulatory system rather than a closed tunica (not to mention kegelpower…).

I think our biggest takeaway should be that jelqing is still technically a better mechanism for growth, and clamping and pumping are only more effective because most of us have weak hands. When we jelq, and draw that wave of pressure is along the tunica, we are not only stretching those fibers in both axes, but possibly "de-tangling" or "limbering them up" in a way. This may not sound very scientific, but I suspect it is what’s going on in there. Also, I would suggest that jelqs stimulate growth much like the ellipse action under a clamp… only the force is applied from base to glans.

In other words, my take is the majority of the thread went off-topic to reinforce the usefulness of jelqing skill, and the difference between clamping and pumping is small. Do whichever is easier or effective for you. Personally, after a year of clamping I’m going to shift back to jelqing… as much as I have the strength for.

Great post jh.