P.I.V. - gains forecaster?

P.I.V. and Forecasting Gains
Much debate has centered on why some guys gain quickly, slowly, significantly, marginally – or not at all. Most of the speculation focuses on (1) starting size, (2) LOT, (3) personal biology, and (4) lifestyle.

(1) Starting Size
Bigger Guys (pro): The bigger the starting size, the more tissue; hence even a small relative gain can translate into a large actual gain. And the 2nd advantage cited is that the bigger guys have more exercise options & versatility, including greater range of hanger placement.
Bigger Guys (contra): Those larger & thicker tissues may be more resistant to plastic deformation than the tissues of a small penis. And the psychological disadvantage might be less drive, less obsession to go that extra mile with PE.

Smaller Guys (pro): Smaller, weaker tissues may be easier to deform. Also, the smaller guy is far more likely to have that “inner rage” to keep pushing him, than would a guy who’s always been relatively comfortable with his size and used his tool a lot.
Smaller Guys (contra): Smaller starting size obviously includes less tissue to work with; hence, even a 1-inch length gain might require an additional 25% more length – or even greater. A smaller starting size also limits exercise options – even the act of safely attaching a hanger on a very small flaccid size could be nearly insurmountable.

The only consensus on starting size advantage or disadvantage is that there is no consensus.

(2) LOT
High, tight ligs can offer quick gains, even dramatic gains quickly. But many of the top gainers have described less-than-optimal LOTs. And ligaments don’t comprise the totality of length gains; tunica growth is also a major factor.

While the LOT theory fares better than discussions of starting size, the LOT theory is geared more toward workout design than forecasting gains.

(3) Personal Biology
This would include the wide variations in the strength of one’s connective tissues as well as responsiveness to stressors on a cellular level.

(4) Lifestyle
Smoking, excessive caffeine intake, obesity, poor nutrition, compromised circulation, etc. all to minimize or even prevent gains.

After 2½ years in this game, I’ve come to believe that a potentially significant factor is one’s Penile Inherent Viscosity (P.I.V.). I suspect that PIV is much more significant than starting size, and perhaps more significant than the LOT test, in determining potential gains.

In short, are you a grower or a show-er?

If you’re a major grower, like me, that indicates that your penis exhibits a high degree of elasticity. If, on the other end of the scale, you’re nearly a complete show-er, your penile tissues have very little elasticity.

The implications of all this hinge upon the basic concept of tissue traction. Elastic tissue, when placed under load, stretches; however, the elastic properties ensure that the tissue returns to normal after the stress is removed. Hence, your BPFSL immediately returns to normal flaccid length as you as you let go. And even the temporary lengthening of the penis after an intense stretch session is short-lived.

Actual “growth” occurs when the tissues pass beyond their elastic limits and enter the realm of plasticity (“plastic deformation”). The greater your inherent elasticity (i.e., the more of a grower you are), the more demanding is your task to take those gummy, highly expansive tissues to plasticity.

Conversely, a major show-er exhibits relatively little elasticity and should be able to stress those tissues beyond their elastic limits (“controlled damage”) more easily and more quickly than the grow-er.

So, the ideal PE trainee would be a major show-er with a very high LOT and an active, healthy lifestyle – not me, lol.

I know that some guys have mentioned hot wraps pre-workout, followed by cold wraps post-workout. But I’ve seen very little follow-up on those experiments. I’m trying a totally different approach beginning Monday – but I’ve rambled more than enough already (my apologies)

I’ll post details of this experiment & any subsequent progress accordingly.

- w a d

Looks like I’m screwed again!

But wait, the more I do this, the more I am changing from a grower to a shower. Unfortunately my total length seems to have hit a brick wall, but my flaccid size keeps improving, which I think is great. Luckily, my girth still shows room for growth, so if I could just cement in a solid 7.5 X 6.0, I would be very happy, but gaining that extra .25 in length is slow slow slow.

I started out at around 6 X 5, drank like a fish, had a poor diet and did no exercise. Now I don’t drink, have an excellent diet and exercise regularly, so improving the total package does have it’s benefits.

My latest thoughts about P.I.V. could explain some of the variations associated with my BFS Theory – such as the discrepancies noted by hobby regarding how his BFS does not keep increasing for long during a break. I might be an extreme case of extreme elasticity – which could explain a paltry 1.6” EL in 2½ years of PE (and that includes 3/8” of regained size – so my actual “new” gains are more like 1.22” in 30 months….ouch!).

I’m looking at this from 2 sides: wanting the tissues to decondition when they’ve strengthened too much, and recognizing that too much elasticity can be like trying to run underwater – a great deal of effort to achieve very little.

This does not contradict with my view of punctuated PE. Deconditioning breaks followed by brief periods of daily stretching, taking advantage of weakened tissues because, obviously, if the tissues become too tough you can’t do anything with them.

I honestly think my man Wad just shits down, thinks up the COOLEST souding acroynm possible, and then attempts to fill each letter with an appropriate word. THEN thinks up a theory based on that acroynm. Lmao. Just kidding dude, keep up the good work.

Wadmeister.

Good points all,
Regarding your 1st point re actual versus relative growth a cu” measurement is the equaliser here so actual growth can be compared.

The 2 remaining items you did not identify are:

Age
Personally I think guys under 25 or so are still growing.

Pecker activity
The old use it of lose it, especially guys that are married and don’t jerk of a lot, I bleieve they grow BACK to their orginal larger size when they we’re maybe in their 30’s.

Alrdybig,
Am I really that transparent? :)

I just think that penile elasticity is probably the best indicator of gains. LOT can tip you off about how much potential lig gains you have at hand, but not necessarily your overall gains.

Consider this example: 2 guys, “Slim” & “Fatty.” Both have 6 BP x 5, but they both get totally different results from PE.

Slim is 25, active, non-smoker, non coffee drinker. He’s a major show-er with a 5” flaccid and a LOT up around 11 o’clock.

Fatty is in his 30’s, chain smokes, chugs coffee all day & seldom gets off his ass. He’s a major grower with a 2” flaccid and a LOT about 6:30.

Slim starts making huge gains & gets all excited. Fatty is drudging along. He gets a little bit of size from jelqing and maybe an extra 1/8” EL by getting his LOT all the way down to 6:00.

4 months down the road, Slim is 7.2 x 5.5. Fatty is 6.2 x 5.25 and is getting disgusted. In 4 more months, Slim is 7.6 x 5.7 - but Fatty has already quit. In fact, Fatty begins to doubt that he ever made any gains from PE. He suspects that his measuring technique became very aggressive, etc. Fatty concludes that PE is a total crock of shit. But Slim stays with it. It’s not long before Slim finally hits 8 x 6, and is one happy camper. Slim doesn’t doubt that PE works, but Fatty knows that PE is all bullshit.

I’ll bet this story has played out countless times.

Like Bib always said, “Work smarter, not just harder.” What could Fatty have done? Well, aside from cutting out all of his nasty habits & sedentary lifestyle, a LOT test would have revealed to him that he had very little lig growth potential - so all of his stretching should’ve been between 10-12 o’clock. He also needed to log far greater time stretching because of his highly elastic penile tissues. And, he should’ve realized that we all grow at different rates. Just because Fatty was a major grower with a very low LOT does not mean that he could’ve never hit 8 x 6 - his path just would’ve been more arduous and took longer than Slim’s exciting ride.

And another very promising reality: an individual’s LOT can rise. I know that mine did after a tenacious bout of tunica work. I added about 1/3” EL during one length cycle and my LOT definitely increased. I think this was probably due to the fact that as the tunica extended, the ligs were also pulled forward, tightening them, thereby raising my LOT. When I began PE I had a dismal 7:30 LOT. After that dedicated tunica cycle, my LOT was nearly 9 o’clock.

You are making a leap here in presuming these factors matter one way or the other. Bib mentioned gaining the best when dieting and restricting vitamin C intake. The poor vs. good nutrition thing has been discussed several times before. Some good gainers here are sedentary, pudgy smokers who eat crap and chug coffee and/or booze. Others are lean, active, health obsessed nutrition freaks. No clear correlation one way or another between these “lifestyle” factors and PE gains has been established.

I agree with this.

hobby,
The medical community has established conclusively that smoking & excessive caffeine intake restrict blood flow and in the long term can even lead to vascular damage. Since we aim to enlarge those blood-holding chambers and to strengthen our erections, there’s no leap in logic at all.

In fact, by citing examples of the good gainers with the negative lifestyles, you’re actually committing a very common error of causality. I often saw guys in the gym who made huge gains on decidedly lousy routines. The problem is, many newbies who admired their physiques foolishly parroted their lousy routines - and usually got no gains at all.

By citing the good PE gainers with the lousy lifestyles, you’re presuming that their poor habits had no ill effect on their gains. It’s quite possible (and even reasonable to think) that they actually did. In other words, had they not done those negative things, their gains may have even been greater. That’s no different than my saying, “Smoking is absolutely not bad for your health.” In fact, my mother never smoked and died at age 48. Both of her parents smoked, and they each lived to 85 (true). Yet, would that be a true conclusion on my behalf?

And, pabs & Para, I’m not sure what you mean by the age thing. I was at my very biggest by about 16 or 18, and held that size for many years. At age 37, I found that I had actually lost 3/8” EL - and I had a lot of pussy over the years; but most of all, I was an extreme jackoholic. So my cock got plenty of use, but still shrank.

>The medical community has established conclusively that smoking & excessive caffeine intake restrict blood flow

Sources? If I blindly accept the assertion that these reduce blood flow, provide one source showing slightly reduced blood flow hinders or helps gains from PE exercises. You can’t. Nor can I, which is my point. I’m saying we don’t know if or how certain “lifestyle” factors affect PE. You claim you know they do and in which direction. Hey, I hear they are hiring a replacement for Carnac the Magnificent. ;)

>In fact, by citing examples of the good gainers with the negative lifestyles, you’re actually committing a very common error of causality.

How so? You’re committing the error of thinkitmustbesoality. I’m saying that not only has no causative effect of the “lifestyle” factors you mention on PE gains been ascertained from the discussions here, but not even any correlation. Unless you have better data on how these factors affect PE gains than I do, you are making an assertion based on nothing but blind speculation. What kind of error is that?

Yes, clearly some guys experience shrinkage as they age even if they keep using their dicks. I was just saying that I suspect many of the quick gains older guys get are simply “regains” of lost size — a common belief around here. I’d be exceedingly skeptical of PE if the only evidence were from 50+ year-old men who gained less than an inch in length. Anyway, that’s not especially pertinent to the thread topic; I just think the age factor is important to keep in mind when people put numbers to the gains they’ve made.

“Heavy smoking is frequently cited as a contributory factor in the development of impotence, mainly because it accentuates the actions of other disorders of the blood vessels, including high blood pressure and atherosclerosis.”

So, are you really suggesting that a practice (smoking) which can contribute to impotence has no negative effect on penis enlargement? Wow.

Furthermore, your challenge to me to cite one study that demonstrates that smoking and/or caffeine may detract from PE is nothing but disingenuous rhetoric. You know damn well there are no “scientific studies” about PE - in regards to anything, lol. I cannot cite one study that proves that dipping your penis in hcl will hinder PE gains.

If you want to believe that habits which can lead to impotence won’t hurt penis enlargement gains at all, be my guest. I’ve based my claims upon medical science, regarding impeded blood flow. I have no idea why you make the assertion that impeded blood flow will not hinder penis enlargement - maybe from Carnac? :)

Is there any statistics on the difference in gains between those who were growers and those who are showers?

Or are you simply going on the fact that flaccid gains come first, growers generally become more showers as they gain.

Wad,

You mentioned your LOT went up after a dedicated tunica cycle.

What did you do exactly for the tunica?

mm

<<I might be an extreme case of extreme elasticity – which could explain a paltry 1.6” EL in 2½ years of PE (and that includes 3/8” of regained size – so my actual “new” gains are more like 1.22” in 30 months….ouch!).>> Wad

I’d settle for 1.6” in three years. In fact after gaining 0.5” with a year of hard effort I’d be delighted with getting 1.6” after three years. Gaining an inch and a half on your dick is pretty damn good!