Proof that masturbation doesnt affect gains?

Nonetheless, it affects gains.

I believe that cumming in general drains the man of energy, the same energy I can use to make my dick expand, stretch, and make permanently bigger. Taoism teaches the fact that if you cum, you lose energy, energy you could keep and cultivate to become multi orgasmic. If you don’t believe that there isn’t a thing wrong with blowing your load then your probably not going to want to believe that it will affect gains either.

This must be clarified. xlmagnum was talking about masturbation before your workout. Masturbation before your workout will more then likely result in a less intense or lesser motivated workout.

I always take this topic to mean you are talking about masturbation after the workout as far as affecting gains are concerned and in this regard it does not.

Well, that makes it quite simple then. You should proceed along the lines of what you believe to be true and I will proceed along the lines I know to be true.

Before or after, it doesnt matter, any cumming in my book is bad. Its like drinking alcohol, its enjoyable but it drains the body. However a smart athlete will know that drinking a drop works against him.

Alright, but I see alot of people on here that are really divided on this and ultimately it affects the information on this forum and their gains. So I guess everyone on here will have to do their own personal survey. For myself I haven’t let myself cum in a while and I have some amazing workouts where I am definitely the most engorged i have ever been. I don’t get this if I masturbate even a day before.

I don’t understand why you guys want to make a big deal out of this. If you think it makes a difference, then don’t masturbate or have sex until your dick is as big as you want it.

In my reply to remek (linked above) I said that newbies have enough problems without worrying that they’re going to “reverse” their gains if they jerk off. It has been the experience of many members of these forums that they made gains while continuing their sex lives during the time they were doing PE. To tell newbies that their gains are reduced by masturbation only puts more stress on them in this new endeavor. Since the experiment hasn’t been done to prove it one way or another, all they have is anecdotal evidence (both for and against). And since both sides believe they are right, it’s still up to the individual to make up his mind about what he’s going to do.

The penis is an organ used to expanding and contracting. To make it get larger it has to be expanded or stretched beyond its normal limits. This is done with jelqing and manual stretching. (I’m not going to address advanced exercises since you all are so concerned with newbies getting the “correct” information.) Jelqing expands the erectile chambers (corpora cavernosa and corpus spongiosum) by manually moving blood and pushing it under higher than normal pressure against the tunica albuginea (the tough, fibrous tissue that forms the walls of the corpora).

One of the theories of how PE works is the “micro-tear and repair” theory. Essentially it says that as tissues are expanded (by pressure or stretching) beyond their normal limits microscopic tears in the cells appear and as the body repairs them new cells are added to accommodate the stress. When I was first introduced to PE this was the prevalent theory. It made sense to me since I’ve had some experience with tissue expanders used to create skin grafts. Tissue expanders are plastic/silicone bags placed under the skin at a donor site and slowly (over weeks) filled with saline solution. As it expands the skin above the bag grows to accommodate the stress. The new skin is then harvested for the skin graft. If PE is done in a consistent, regular manner, the added stress can cause new tissue growth like it can with tissue expanders.

My statements about masturbation and gains come from my belief in this theory of penile growth during PE. Once the stress is applied and the tissue is microscopically damaged, compression or contraction of that tissue won’t repair that damage. I think this is the heart of the argument. Contraction of the penis after ejaculation is normal. Will penis shrinkage after ejaculation prevent growth? If the micro damage is already done, I don’t see how the smooth muscle of the trabeculae in the CC contracting will have any effect on the tissues of the tunica albuginea.

If you want to believe that a plump penis after your workout promotes growth, then you can believe it. If you want to believe there’s a cosmic energy that is “drained” by ejaculation, that’s fine, too. You’re free to post your opinion in newbie threads, as will I. They can then see that there are (at least) two sides to the argument and make up their own minds about how they want to deal with that. Saying that my opinion “affects the information on this forum” (I assume in a bad way) is tantamount to saying I’m wrong and you’re right. The statement in my sig about masturbation and my response to newbie inquiries about this subject will not change until a long-term study is done that proves me wrong. You might as well deal with that, since I don’t see it happening in the near future.

That’s a lame POV to be taking. Allow me to elaborate.

In response to you, I have a new theory. Stepping in Cow Shit affects gains. I know this isn’t a desirable thing to be doing, but it does affect gains “nonetheless”….as you put it. Let’s say I’m walking along, and all of a sudden, I step in Cow Shit! OH NO! My day is ruined, I go into a state of depression, so PEing is the last thing on my mind. If I don’t PE, gains will never come, thus stepping in Cow Shit indirectly affects my gains, but “nonetheless” affects my gains.

:-k

What is the point of having a bigger dick if you never use it? Ever heard of prostate cancer? Cumming on a regular basis prevents that to some degree. The penis (and tesicles) are geared towards renewing the fluids held within, so you need to get rid of the old stuff first.

All that aside, did you forget the fact that the intended function of the penis is to cum? We have it for procreation (intended purpose) and to procreate, you need to squirt that semen.

Whether or not you want to call it “cosmic” is up to you. However it is a fact physiologically, that energy is lost. I think any man can agree that they feel drained after cumming, not the opposite. Anyways you say you want to keep that statement up there until proven wrong, that’s fine, but until then its just your opinion, nothing more. You have no facts whatsoever to back up that statement.

Retract that, I’m not saying you should never cum. It is healthy to cum, just not all the time. You should have the choice to conserve and cultivate that energy.

Listen, if anyone on here has read the book The Multi-Orgasmic Male, has practiced the techniques, and believes in the 3000 year old Chinese medical advice it contains then I think most people can agree with my opinion on this. And just like I said before, if you think that an unlimited amount of ejaculation is healthy and no wrong can come of it then you’ll come to the conclusion that masturbation does not affect gains.

WestLA, you left out a group: one that has sex AND masturbates. Sign me up for that one. BTW, is that you in the new avatar? Nice to see your real face, you aren’t nearly as ugly as everyone says.

stmheath, Can you define this “energy” that you are talking about? Can you point to an experiment where this energy was ever proven to exist? Personally I think that the idea comes from the way people feel before and after sex, especially if you are abstaining. I for one know that I get hyper and feel energetic if I go without for a while. I also know that I get down, maybe way down, if I jack off too much. If I do it three times in one day I almost get depressed (but somehow it still happens every now and then). Unfortunately due to my job I have a lot of experience in both going without for a while and jacking off too much.

I think that these feelings can be fully explained by hormone activity in the body. These hormones have actually been observed and explained, unlike the “energy” that you are talking about.

Might I suggest that you read up on autohypnosis?

Along with HalfRusski, I’d like to see the study that measured this loss of energy. Can you provide a link or text reference?

It has been suggested that oxytocin, the level of which increases at the time of ejaculation, makes men sleepy. I haven’t been able to find any proof of that. What makes more sense is that ejaculation is controlled by the sympathetic nervous system and the primary neurotransmitter of that system is epinephrine. There is an abstract of one study which evaluated blood pressure and electrocardiographic changes with ejaculation. The results showed an increase in blood pressure and EKG changes suggestive of cardiac stimulation. The release of epinephrine and the body’s response to it can make one feel tired. While some can be satisfied with a spiritual explanation of this phenomenon, I’d rather see something scientific.

I think I’ve provided a fair amount of physiology to support my side. You have the responses to one poorly worded question on an Internet questionnaire and 12 guys who claim they don’t masturbate (no answer yet regarding if they had sex after PE). So your explanation is also “just your opinion.”

I thought you and gprent agreed to disagree. Can’t we also have that arrangement?

C’mon guys - is it only obvious to me? … The guys who masturbate the least have the most self discipline - whether it cums to masturbation or exercises … . that’s is the reason !!!!

LESS MASTURBATION SHOWS DISCIPLINE - WILL REFLECT ON DEDICATION TO REGIMEN - HELLO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dem.

Oh man, I thought it was just common sense for everyone that cumming drains you. I don’t even want to give an analogy because it would be redundant.

Westla, the image of the unsatisfied woman whose lover ejaculates, grunts, and collapses on top of her is so common that it has become a cultural joke, but the exhaustion that men feel after ejaculating is as old as the first coital groan. I used to box and all of my trainers told me never to ejaculate at least 2 weeks before the fight. They were right, I had much more stamina by following their advice. But its not just athletes that have known the weakness and lethargy that follows ejaculation, artist have also felt the lingering effects on their work. Jazz musician Miles Davis explained in an interview in Playboy:

Davis: You cant cum, the fight or play. You cant do it. When I get ready to cum, I cum. But I do not cum and play.

Playboy: Explain in laymen terms.

Davis: Ask Muhammad Ali. If he cums, he cant fight 2 minutes. Shit, he couldn’t even whip me.

Playboy: Would you fight Muhammad Ali under those conditions, to prove your point?

Davis: Your goddamn right I’d fight him. But he’s got to promise to fuck first. If he ain’t going to fuck, I ain’t going to fight. You give up all of your energy when you cum. I mean, you give all of it! So, if you’re going to fuck before a gig, how are you going to give something when its time to hit?

So anyways westla, if your saying you personally don’t feel any loss of energy or feelings of lethargy after you cum then you must be superhuman. As for most people though I got to believe that they don’t really need a study to know they have a energy loss of some sort when they cum. But yes lets agree to disagree, I’m not arguing here. Take care