Proof that masturbation doesnt affect gains?

At this point in the now substantial history of Thunders, it’s apparent to me from a whole lot of reading that most members here working for gains continue to have sex lives and/or masturbate - to ejaculation - at whatever rate their libidos dictate.

There are a lot of big-dicked vets here who got where they are by sticking to their routines and while doing that they did not become celebate in any way. There are a lot of newbies, it seems like, whose first worry in getting into PE is, How is ejaculating going to affect my gains; this issue is surely one of the most perennial questions here.

I happen to agree totally with gprent and westla and others that ejaculating is a healthy and very fun thing and that if doing that (no matter how you get there) causes some temporary sense of energy loss or turtling for an hour, so what? Two months down the road you’ll likely be bigger against your ruler if you stick to your program and that means more to play with the next time you have sex or masturbate.

I can tell you this for sure: abstaining from ejaculating is not going to make your cock larger; it only leads to prostatic and seminal vessicle congestion.

I’m sure you have heard of acupuncture. Acupuncture is the manipulation of energy or “qi” at different points that flows throughout your body. The Chinese have used for over 5000 years to treat ailments and for pain relief. That’s the same energy I’m talking about. So there must be an energy in the body or how else do you think that acupuncture works and why would it be recognized now by many western doctors?

Why would I want to read about autohypnosis?

I, like many other guys, do sometimes feel tired after ejaculation. I think the intensity of it varies depending on many factors. The epinephrine thing was my attempt to explain the reason for feeling tired. I’m not a believer in Eastern mysticism and the energy force Chi. I don’t think ejaculation “drains energy.” I think it’s the body’s response to epinephrine.

Regardless, all we can do regarding the masturbation thing is to let newbies know that there are differing opinions about it and let them make up their own minds.

I will agree that acupuncture is the practice of sticking needles in various parts of the body, and that it does have an effect. That does not in and of itself prove the existence of qi. You might also think that sticking a thin piece of metal into a nerve just might affect the functioning of that nerve.

As for autohynosis, I will explain further. When I read about tantric activities, with all of the instructions to focus your mind on certain areas of the body, contract certain muscles in a certain rhythm, and control your breathing, that just screams autohypnosis (as in self hypnosis).

I don’t really have a problem with that. If it works for you, great. But don’t try to sell it as more than it is.

I also agree to some degree with Miles Davis’ statements. As I said earlier, I often feel lethargic after sex, and it gets worse if I have multiple orgasms on a given day. That doesn’t mean that I have drained my mystical energy. It means that my body has flooded itself with hormones and so forth.

I also feel sleepy after a big meal. This doesn’t mean that I have drained my energy then either.

The difference between western and eastern medicine is science. The science behind western medicine is far from complete, but eastern medicine has, to my knowledge, zero science behind it. They have made some very superficial links between cause and effect, but then built this complex of spiritual explanations to support it.

westla-

I’m very hesitant to wade into this discussion as I don’t enjoy being (mis)perceived to be, and (falsely) accused of, “starting shit”. I’m not trying to do that (what I am trying to do is to promote the distinction between opinion and fact). Nonetheless, here goes…

YES. There are differing opinions on this subject on this Forum. What matters is distinguishing what are the opinions and what are the facts. I think the salient point in all of this is that we don’t know whether masturbation (read: ejaculation) affects the RATE of gains. What the anecdotal information on this Forum (the best information available, and very good information, I think) indicates is that ejaculation doesn’t affect whether gains (at all, of any rate) can occur (or not). Fine. But that isn’t what your sig says. It says: “No, masturbation does not affect gains!”. This is an opinion that is presented (emphatically!) as a fact. It may be (although we don’t know) that ejaculation affects the rate at which gains occur. Which, if true, is affecting gains. IMO, a less misleading, more accurate statement of (what can reasonably be considered) fact would be something like: “You can gain regardless of how often you ejaculate (or “masturbate”, if we want to continue to obscure the real issue)”. If you wanted to stick with a statement of your opinion, you could simply add “IMO” in front of the statement you already have. Of course, there are a myriad of other ways that either the fact or the opinion could be presented. I hope you get the idea.

FWIW, I think the greatest service to newbs (and all males for that matter) is to lay down the truth, which would look something like this: “We don’t know whether ejaculation affects gains rate, but based on information on this Forum, it appears that most guys can gain without modification to their pre-PE ejaculation rates.” FWIW.

Offered with respect for your consideration.

xeno

Is my sig that important here? Is my opinion, that of someone who hasn’t done active PE exercises since the summer of 2003, so important that a few words at the bottom of my post take on this much significance? I certainly don’t want to mislead anyone into thinking they can just jack off whenever they want. I want to make sure they think about it in light of all the “facts” and not just “opinions.”

I’m turning off the sig and the avatar for the time being. I may turn myself off (as Thunder did recently) soon, too.

I liked the avatar.

Me too. Always have.

awww man, don’t turn it off. I’d say most of your opinions are very well thought out and I personally value most of the info you give on here. I was just about to put my avatar up of myself but I don’t see myself doing so until you reconsider.

Actually, I think all we can say is that “We don’t know whether ejaculation affects gains rate”.

As a researcher, I can tell you that the study to which you are referring is self-report data from respondents. There is no way to determine the veracity of such data. Furthermore, the survey was not constructed to specifically test the specific hypotheses stated in this thread. It would be inappropriate to draw such conclusions.

Furthermore, just because there is a difference between groups, we don’t know if there is as statistically significant difference between groups. All of the analysis I have read are based on simple tallies (frequencies) and have not been tested by appropriate statistical models.

There is no cogent theory as to why PE works (indeed, the medical community claims it does not). Westla hypothesized the “micro tear” theory. If this theory was correct, and ejaculation hindered gains, then ejaculating would somehow have to prevent the body from repairing micro tears (one possible explanation). I agree with westla that such a conclusion is unlikely. However, there could be other unforeseen mechanisms in place.

As for me, if your penis is truly repairing from damage, I think it makes sense not to be tugging on it too much while it heals. (Ejaculation or not)

Welcome to Thunder’s Place, novi.

I didn’t refer to a study.

I disagree: this is a forum comprised of peers, not experts or professionals. Do all of us have to preface everything with “IMO”? No, because everthing on here is taken to be “IMO” - albeit the opinions of some will carry more weight than others.

My comments were specific to westla’s statement in his signature regarding masturbation and gains. No applicability to “everthing(sic) on here” was made or implied.

Me too.

It is his opinion (which I humbly respect very much and happen to share in this case), a preemptive expression of it before he’s asked again for the zillionth time.

I think nothing about PE has been proven scientifically, one of the very reasons for this forum existence. All the data about results -or lack of them- are anecdotal.

It hasn’t been scientifically demonstrated that masturbation affects gains, however, there’s no doubt -and has been scientifically proven- that it grows hair on the palm of the hands.:D