thoughtfulgold's Penis Enlargement as "Scheduled Trauma" theory

Exactly.
First did PE for a few months a very long time ago.
I gained quick and easy back then (like most newbies) and kept the gains.

Starting PE again this year and wondered if I’d gain as easy in the beginning or if I’d already exhausted the “newbie gains”.
It seems they don’t exist. I think it’s just how your body grows when you’re rested enough and doing the right thing, when you find that sweet spot.
It doesn’t have to be just when you’re starting (except maybe early ligament length gains).

I also take breaks, whenever I feel it’s the best thing to do.

I don’t know, it’s like working out. You FEEL what your body needs. You won’t grow anything if you’re knackered.
You will just exhaust your body, that’s all, much like when you’re sick. Just common sense, and trying things out.
Thanks for the post, really confirms how things seem to go here too!

What if you have sex? Does it count as a break or not?

My question isn’t meant to oppose anything you’ve said, but how exactly do we think varying exercises circumvents the body’s stress adaptation (toughening response)? I am hearing a lot of stuff that “sounds right”, but we need some biology involved for there to be something to believe in specifically, let alone test and compare. These ideas have been developed for at least a decade here, and it reminds me of the pumping vs. clamping threads…

We think that clamping, jelqing, pumping - and so on - have different effects on our units, but do they really? Clamping can mechanically result in a greater amount of force than any other exercise, but besides amount, is there really a difference? Perhaps jelqs produce the stretching forces as well as “shifting” force (lots of discussion about lateral and longitudinal fibers and somehow disrupting their inter-connectivity), but maybe not. I think you’re onto something that a lot of guys have brought up in various ways, but in order to hold more water than the dozens of bro-science type ideas, I think we need to talk about the biological mechanisms at work.

Well, while your request is good and honest, google-fu does not a doctor make. So I could theorize all day what I think happens biologically, about shifting forces or the like. Some of which I have in said theory in my OP, as I’m not shy about theorizing. Problem is I’m not a doctor or biological professional of any sort. So it is theory based on speculation and hazy known factors at best. This I admit.

The theory in question is based on trends and patterns observed in 7 years in both my own gains and the gains of many others as well as extensive talk with Big Al, who is a venerable name in this business. I cannot cite medical journals nor books of medical definitions. I lack the requisite knowledge to do more than guess.

Additionally, PE has been mostly “bro-science” since its inception. It’s why so many conflicting theories exist and why so many things seem to work. Without actual science to isolate the common factors between different practices we can only theorize based on observable and repeatable patterns. Fortunately, amounts of force, types of force from exercises and devices and durations of force are still relatively quantifiable values so we can share routines with a modicum of consistency and success. The Newbie Routine works well for many despite the nature of how subjective the PE can be.

But, given the medical community in general shuns PE I do not predict a biologist, urologist, and MD will be coming to examine our works here (this one included) and offer criticism. Your desire for hard facts is fair. But the absence of hard facts is why Thunders is a secret cult of dick pulling men and not a Web MD style site based on Male Sexual Health and Penis Size.

I’ve only seen a few doctors post on boards like this in my 7 years. Less than 5 in fact. So I’m not sure what else to tell you. All I can offer is what I’ve noticed to be true via patterns and trends, which is the standard for PE theory at this point. As we don’t do labs or tissue samples to check for elasticity changes or chemical changes areas and tissues within the penis to see what actually occurs to verify the actions we take and their effects.

It’s the best I can do. I respect your desire for concrete and conclusive information. I simply cannot provide it.

I’m already listed as offering my body to science when I die, but I’m not sure if I’m allowed an addendum “please dissect my penis and compare the tissue to non-jelqing members of the population. Before preserving it in formaldehyde, preferably.”. It’s going to be hard to find volunteer humans for vivisection to actually look at the tissue… Plus it’s a complex system and there would have to be a large effort to find out, without any commercial promise. It’s going to be hard to find the resources. Don’t forget that a large part of even modern western medicine is “practice based”. I think the best analogy to PE would be fitness and bodybuilding industries, a few decades ago. They knew most of what worked, but not how. They knew what to eat, but not specifically which chemicals did which job. Now we have powdered creatine, beta alanine, D-aspartic acid, L-arginine, glucosamine, chondroitin… And that’s just what I own and frequently use.

I’m not saying that we wouldn’t benefit from fundamental research. I am however saying that this resource shouldn’t be sold short. It’s also likely that PE would attract the wrong type of doctor (the type that wants to sell you implants and overpriced creams and other snake oil).

Just check the progress reports. It’s working. This is practice based PE, and the evidence for it is hanging between my very legs.

P.S. We’re all jelqing in white robes right? That’s the cult code right? …Right? no, just me?

For what it’s worth, in addition to the short list of medical professionals here that TG just referenced, there have been a few others who have outlined seemingly well-rounded scientific reasons for their chosen routines and theories.

I can’t think of any off the top of my head but I believe Firegoat outlined some solid points pertaining to stretching in a relaxed state. There have been others who advocated a cold warm down and gave justification for doind so. And still other members who differentiated between the mechanics/organization/growth of muscle vs penile tissue.

I’m not sure if the thread exists, because I started typing this post before I thought of using the search button to look, but I wonder if there is a thread or two on everything PE that is backed by scientific evidence.

Thanks for highlighting the idea of Variety!

I have been a believer in the theory of de-conditioning breaks, but your post takes this concept to the next level. Thinking back, most of my gains have come after switching to a new routine, and then slowed drastically right about 2 weeks in. Typically I have been taking de-conditioning breaks of a week or two, and these seem to help restart the gains, but I wonder what would happen if I switched routines every 2 weeks? Such as stretching for 2 weeks, (with break days incorporated, like 1on,1off), then pumping for 2 weeks?

How do you specifically incorporate variety, Thoughtfulgold, and what are your favorite routines?

My only suggestion would be to be cautious about drawing too close an analogy between building muscle in the gym and trying to stretch or grow ligament fibers, because these are different types of fibers. I don’t claim to be an expert, but it seems these fibers would react differently.

I use muscle fibers only in the context that they grow and increase in the same microtear method that the penis generally does. And that overdoing it at the gym causes inflammation and muscle tears, much like some of the macrotears and dangers of PE being overdone will affect your penis. Some similarity but…no, not an expert. And even so…please do not drop a dumbbell on your dick trying to “work out”. *chuckles*

Now, my theory on switching routines is that switching too soon may not get you the max benefit from a routine that it can give you before moving onto the next thing. So there is some value to not changing daily and weekly. But, at the same time, variety can be very good if you have an extreme amount of things you can do that you can rotate through. I wouldn’t change my routine every two weeks unless I had 5 or more completely unique routines to do. I do not and I do not think that the benefit would be that much more that such logistics need be thought through in that way. However, if you have that amount of creativity, manual exercise expertise and devices give it a whirl. I do predict after around 4 routines you’ll still gain the same deconditioning effect because you’ll only cycle the same routine every 8 weeks or so. And you’ll likely optimize your gains with that level of shuffle. I would love to hear about this experiment if you do manage to make up that many different routines and start rotating through them over a 2 month period.

Currently, I use a simple routine. I outlined it in a post on the first page but let me paste it here as well.

Currently as of today:
Day one: Warmup, V Jelqs, edging, warmdown
Day two: Warmup, pumping, edging, warmdown
Day three: Rest, edging
Day four: Warmup, V Jelqs, edging, warmdown
Day five: Warmup, Clamping sessions, edging, warmdown
Day six and seven: Rest

This way I get length and girth and keep my fatigue levels relatively low to medium. Consecutive days of pumping or clamping kill EQ (typically, not for everyone) and sometimes you have to amp up clamping much more if you do it consecutively. It was when I was managing clamping that I came up with this theory more solidly and started putting it together.

What I have generally done in the past is to try one type of exercise, like pumping, stretching, hanging, etc… and do just that one exercise until I saw gains slow and then stop. Then I would take a break out of frustration and eventually start on a new exercise. With each type of exercise, I saw gains, but they slowed and then stopped. So I am wondering now if I can keep gains going at a more rapid rate by intentionally switching between exercises after a period of about 2 weeks, which is when I usually saw gains start to really slow when doing only one exercise. I’ve never been able to keep a strict schedule, but it’s generally 1 day on for every 1 day off per week. Maybe switching it up within the same week-long period like you do would have better results? I don’t know. Have you tried longer periods of time doing one specific workout, then switch to another, or have you always done a routine that varies workouts within a week-long period?

Part of my theory is based on the same frustration you describe. I mean I’ve done random things, I’ve done varied things. I have done the same thing all week for weeks on end (which I think is least effective but works to a point, at least in the beginning), extender theory is based on the same thing day after day, week after week as it so happens.

But, in these days of paying attention while I do PE and trying at least to add consistency, I typically do things within a week and do that week for around 5 or 6 weeks. Then I take a week or two off. So it’s 2 or 3 things during the week, at least currently, and doing that week for around a month and a half. My schedule during the week is typically 2 on 1 off but 1 on and 1 off is something I saw gains with. I just want to stay motivated more so I do it 2 days at a time these days.

My gains usually come in week 4 of anything. It’ll be week 1 then after a few more weeks I’ll see some more taper till my break. So I’m not sure I can fully identify with your system of getting gains only for the first couple of weeks. That said, it’s why I suggest you cycle a variety of exercises as a two week routine set. I mean maybe you could Clamp and Erect bends for two weeks. Then ULI and JAI stretch. So on and so forth, combining length and girth exercises and devices you have experience with and a comfort level with. I think in your case this may be optimum. But this is just my theory.

Looking back at my logs, it seems that I got gains for a longer period than 2 weeks (gained for 4-5 weeks) without any significant breaks. I guess my memory was fooling me. My data actually corroborates what you said about timeline, with the small difference that I have seen gains start quicker than 4 weeks. Maybe that’s because I’m not as much a veteran of this as you are and am still enjoying easier gains?

High pressure pumping seems to have produced most of my gains, although I got annoyed with it when gains stopped, and then switched to manuals and all-day wrapping. I could never figure out how to get clamping to work well for me, and I’ve kind of incorporated some jelqs into every day habit. Lately I’ve been testing out something BeardedDragon called “ballistic stretching” in a small thread he started a while back. I’ve had significant BPFSL measurement increases, and about 1/8” BPEL increase doing just that exercise about 3-4 times per week for about a month and a half.

I’ve just taken up pumping again at 5-7hg, and in attempt to try out elements of your theory, I am thinking about rotating that with ballistic stretches, maybe 2 days pumping, then 2 days stretches, taking the occasional day off here and there. I feel like I would be hitting mainly girth with the pumping, and then mainly length with the stretches, giving time to recuperate in each dimension when focusing on the other. Does that sound like I am understanding your theory? Previously, I did strictly one type of exercise (plus jelqs sprinkled in on a daily basis) for 2-3 month periods of time before getting frustrated with slowing gains and switching to a new exercise.

I do think that it’s because you’re not quite as experienced as I am. The theory behind gains is that they are logarithmic. So you gain less and less, regardless, as time goes on. It’s why Newbie Gains are their own special miracle unto themselves typically. Your logbook sounds about right for what I’ve seen routines give and have experienced myself so…excellent record keeping indeed.

What you describe understands my theory pretty well. Though, your definition of “rest day here and there” concerns me, as I personally always favor more rest than less. It’s why I typically go 2 on 1 off or 1 for 1 more than any other setup. And really, I’ve never had the spare time for 5 on 2 off.

I do think by mixing your routine up with one of each that you’ll see more gains regularly. By how much, there is not any telling. But something better than the usual taper off I think. This is very curious to me, as this theory and how it affects your gain pattern may be beneficial to others.

I think it’s worth a shot to incorporate your theory and see if the usual “taper off” can be diminished and the gains kick-started right back again after a decon break. Plus, I usually notice decreased EQ when doing the same exercise back to back on consecutive days. I think 2 days in a row is about all my unit can handle for pumping.

By “day off here and there” I really mean that I’ll probably be doing about a 2/1 or 1/1 with a week long break every 4-6 weeks for this new modified routine, incorporating your advice.

I advocate 2 on 1 off myself. And I don’t even pump or clamp on consecutive days. This, I think gives me better results on the days I do. As when I was doing it consecutive, each following day was just a shadow of the last.

I can see conditioning happening.

Took 2 weeks off

Changed my routine 4 x 7min clamps to 2 x 7min pumps followed by 2 x7min clamps.

Day 1 back I got 1/2 inch gain in girth. Temporary.
Day 2 was less
Day 3 was less

Now I know what to look for i should be able to manage my deconditioning.