Thoughts on PE from johndough

I can explain it, can and have;

Once a man passes adolescence it becomes almost impossible to add muscle without taking steroids or otherwise increasing their natural testosterone/hgh levels, however when a man begins working out at a later age he will get bigger muscles almost immediately even though he shouldn’t be able to grow but a very small amount of muscle anymore

Why is that? Did he gain muscles at that late age even though bio-metrics indicate he shouldn’t be able to?

The answer is, he didn’t grow new muscle, he took his muscle and tissue out of the mild state of atrophy that everyone who doesn’t work out experiences

That’s the analogy, none of our tissue is to it’s maximum length/width/pliability unless we are working at it for that limb

Using those same principles we can easily explain most gains, especially those “newb” gains as not really physical gains other then bringing the tissue to it’s maximum state

This is why most people gain but about an inch or so and then it seems to slow down to unperceptive increases.

I suspect those who can’t gain have simply been at their near maximum from the start

Now, I gained an inch in a very short period of time, I haven’t gained anything since

Does this mean I am going to stop?

No, I still have hopes there are improvements beyond this plateu that can be had over time.

Yes, and I’d argue that what you’re describing here is EQ increase. And like I’ve said, EQ increases are the only convincingly “proven” effects of PE (i.e. the studies on pumping to correct ED).

By the way, thanks, Marinera. Oh and to address your second point about length exercises, what I meant by that is I didn’t do hanging because I had little interest in gaining length. I think you must have read my progress report, where I posted my original routine but haven’t posted all the stuff I’ve done since then (basically everything except for hanging). With some modifications to my routine, I may or may not be gaining now (I want to think that I am). But I would still never claim that “PE works” because my mind doesn’t work that way. (And like I’ve said, in the same line of thought I would never say it does’t work either).

You might make that argument for someone else, you can’t make the claim for me;

I also gained an inch of flacid bone stretch, no decrease in fat pad (probably gained some) add to that fact that the erect gains exactly corresponded to flacid stretch gains

In addition, my eq has always been at 10, my erections have always felt so full the skin feels like it can burst when I “flex my unit” (now I know this is called kegel)

My penis, and even then at the relatively average to small size I had,(5 1/2” erect), I almost always penetrated women to the point of discomfort for them, (in the proper position), and they would ask me not to go so deep.(tee hee, I took great pleasure in this since I was length challenged).this could only be explained by the hardness of my erection

Nope, not increase in eq, not possible, especially when you consider the flaccid stretch gains were commensurate to erect gains

Taking tissue out of the mild state of atrophy fits and explains most gains very nicely, eq increase doesn’t fit at all

AMEN BROTHER!

“proved it yet either”

“tissue to its maximum”

"Dick hangs low”

A handful of loudy gainers? Well, I don’t know precisely how many entries there are in the database, but I think gainers are more than ‘a handful’. By the way, I don’t know why but I made up my brain that non-gainers or injured tend to be way more vociferative than gainers.

Where is your theory exposed? I like to hear new ideas.

I’m only up to page 3 of 17 (as of now on this discussion). While I appreciate johndough’s attempt to approach this in a scientific manner, I have to say that finding lack of that information in established studies is not a sign of anything. If there were dozens or hundreds of studies on the matter, over long periods of time, and they all said PE didn’t work, that would be something. However the problem is not a wide consensus of studies saying it doesn’t work versus a handful that show that it does, it’s that there isn’t a preponderance of studies on the matter period. Why? Because most researchers and doctors have the a priori assumption that it doesn’t work and won’t waste their time on it. It is therefore left to practitioners to do it or not.

The entire discussion reminds me of the stories Jack LaLanne tells about his early ventures into body building and fitness in the 1950’s. The “medical experts” all assumed doing these things would lead to being musclebound, inflexible, coordination problems et cetera. Now of course it looks like folly but back then that was considered conventional wisdom. The same is true of many other things that the medical community regards as established fact and therefore didn’t continue, or never started to, study. PE is in that same category.

Why are there no pictures on here? Have you ever tried to measure your erection? It is quite difficult for most of us to keep it up at full mast when measuring, and that’s the point you want to measure it at for consistency. There is far too much variability in flaccid size to use that as a barometer. Well add taking a picture to the measurement process and now you have a real interesting recipe for disaster in the measuring department. This is especially true when we are talking about incremental changes for many people. Do you think a bunch of people are spending years of their lives wasting time on here concocting an elaborate story about their gains because it’s fun. There are far more interesting stories one could make up than that you pull your pud in a certain special way to make it grow by a quarter of an inch.

The Most Common Conjunction - Synonym

This is dumb, but you can use either. Don’t step to me on grammar :-,

LMAO Exactly!

You speak truth. Sound and fury signifying nothing indeed. If you get a chance, check out this book by
American retired school teacher of 29 years and 8 months experience in the classroom John Taylor Gatto,
“The_Underground_History_of_American_Education “. You can read it on his website.

What does school do with children? According to Gatto:

It makes the children confused. It presents an incoherent ensemble of information that the child needs to memorize to stay in school. Apart from the tests and trials that programming is similar to the television, it fills almost all the “free” time of children. One sees and hears something, only to forget it again.

It teaches them to accept their class affiliation.

It makes them indifferent.

It makes them emotionally dependent.

It teaches them a kind of self-confidence that requires constant confirmation by experts (provisional self-esteem).

It makes it clear to them that they cannot hide, because they are always supervised.

What this man describes is what I’ve experienced, both as a student, and as a teacher.

Lastly, fire only burns if you believe it does, and there’s more of it than you ;)

See this is why science will never win. It’s why children in the US are getting measles because people still believe vaccines cause autism (see my first post in this thread). It’s why people still try to deny that global warming exist. We in the scientific community do everything we can do to not speak in absolutes, because it’s the only way to be honest.

What I’m saying is that people can talk all day on here and say PE did or didn’t work for them. But in the end that’s not controlled, it’s not proof, and it’s definitely not scientific. But you’ll continue with the emotionally powerful argument of “The only science I need is the look on my wife’s face when I stick my new big dick in her.” or “The only science I need is that I hung 100 pounds from my dick and didn’t grow an inch.”

In reality, the only honest scientific thing we can say about PE is that “Some studies suggest improvement in EQ from pumping” and that “To date, there is no scientific study that supports a link between PE exercises and non-EQ related increases in penis size.”

But none of that shit gets people excited, so when I keep using the term “loud” I mean it. Look up Jenny McCarthy and Andrew Wakefield and see how they single-handedly have spread measles around the developed world because the scientific method wasn’t good enough for them.

I will be doing PE for years. I love it, and I think it is doing good things for me. But until I see a controlled study, I will never make the claim that it “works,” because for me to do so would be dishonest.

You lost me on the AGW thing sg106. Science, bah humbug. That ain’t science it’s chicanery. ;)

From a science standpoint, what’s needed is a number ( a couple of hundred, or more ) of unbiased, well funded studies by truly neutral, objective parties. Unanimous agreement on the results will probably take about 10 to 30 years (about average) of confirmation, debate, & consensus.

I really don’t see it happening, because the way the business of science is currently set up (and make no mistake, it is a business), there’s no major profit in it. The money made from pumps, weights, & books isn’t going to touch the profit made from a 3,000 to 13,000 dollar phalloplasty procedure. You can even do it for free with your hands LOL. Like I said, no profit.

It’d be great to have studies. I’m a science / tech geek, I love crunching data. But I wouldn’t hold my breath waiting for them.