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Using the ultrasound for therapeutic heat in PE

FYI Kyrpa,

I have about 20 years experience with low and high power lasers including an array of diode and gas lasers. Given my familiarity with them, I’m not very hopeful on their use for PE heating.

There is some promise at certain IR wavelengths that has shown to be more selective at absorption into collagenous structures. But unlike US the other surface tissues are simply too absorptive to all wavelengths. There simply isn’t a wavelength that passes completely through the dermis to the sub structures thre way that US does. It may be possible to use an FIR laser in a flood configuration to reach desired septum temps, but doing so without surface burns would take very long exposures.

OTOH, there is much literature supporting the use of low power (cold) IR laser treatment to dramatically stimulate neocollagenesis. But I expect that my plan that incorporates two FIR sources already achieves that aim, with the added benefit of helping to maintain stable temps.

Originally Posted by Tutt
Good summary Kyrpa. Is your intent to discuss in this thread the techniques of US heat, or log various test procedures and results? Or discuss the theory surrounding the observations?

Thanks Tutt,

First of all welcome back.

There is dozen of users using ultrasound and another dozen in the starting grid already .
The main aim is to clear the confusion around the application.

From the dozen early adopters some have jumped into deep end without taking the time to educate themselves, I am hopeful on bringing this discussion up the ultrasound usage starts to develop from firm and safe platform.

The main concern amongst the users seems to be the temperature management without invasive monitoring techniques.
What we would need is to bring more data from heating sessions to find out if it is possible for control the temperature with a confidence.

First thing we need to get adjusted is the Heating Rate calculation for the ultrasound dose in one session.
The calculation based on volumetric heat rate should be the starting point and will be adjusted with the data.
I am afraid that readings from two penises alone is not the very scientific sample group.

This thread is for to develop safe and effective ways to handle the US.
So I think it is fair to say everything you mentioned should contribute for achieving this goal.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Tutt
FYI Kyrpa,

I have about 20 years experience with low and high power lasers including an array of diode and gas lasers. Given my familiarity with them, I’m not very hopeful on their use for PE heating.

There is some promise at certain IR wavelengths that has shown to be more selective at absorption into collagenous structures. But unlike US the other surface tissues are simply too absorptive to all wavelengths. There simply isn’t a wavelength that passes completely through the dermis to the sub structures thre way that US does. It may be possible to use an FIR laser in a flood configuration to reach desired septum temps, but doing so without surface burns would take very long exposures.

OTOH, there is much literature supporting the use of low power (cold) IR laser treatment to dramatically stimulate neocollagenesis. But I expect that my plan that incorporates two FIR sources already achieves that aim, with the added benefit of helping to maintain stable temps.

Thanks for your insights. The affordable technology being at the level it is, we can say that the best we can do is to use 1MHz and 3MHz US solutions. They have already been proved to work well for our purposes.

Other techniques like the FIR in combination with the US should be interesting to study.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Growing4it
Thanks, I was hoping there would be more discomfort when getting into dangerous territory. Sometimes by the end of my routine, I start to feel some pretty hot temperatures at the transducer when using a hot washcloth on the opposite side of my penis. I suppose I should bite the bullet and test with a urethral thermometer to get a better idea of what my machine is doing in different settings.

This would be highly appreciated effort. As desperately we need this kind of info I still hesitate to ask anyone to do it because the risks involved.

If you go for it it should be done with a thermometer using thermocouple wiring. The probe is then as thin as possible and flexible.
Using solid probe it is really easy to injure the urethra.

Everything going fine you should expect irritation and discomfort inserting the probe. Urinating could cause mild pain for couple of days also. There is a risk of having an infection as well.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
If you go for it it should be done with a thermometer using thermocouple wiring. The probe is then as thin as possible and flexible.
Using solid probe it is really easy to injure the urethra.

Everything going fine you should expect irritation and discomfort inserting the probe. Urinating could cause mild pain for couple of days also. There is a risk of having an infection as well.


I am concerned that the thermocouple wiring is too thin and could possibly puncture the uretra.
I wonder if there is something that could be placed over the the thermocouple to soften it?

Originally Posted by Growing4it
I am concerned that the thermocouple wiring is too thin and could possibly puncture the uretra.
I wonder if there is something that could be placed over the the thermocouple to soften it?

I have coated mine with heat shrink tube. Two wirecouples inside. Easy to disinfect and make slippery to insert.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa

I have coated mine with heat shrink tube. Two wirecouples inside. Easy to disinfect and make slippery to insert.

Sounds good

Thanks

Just purchased a US device

Kyrpa- thanks for your in depth research and understanding of US for PE. I just purchased a US device that came with a recommended setting for ED but not PE. The device has adjustments for frequency and energy levels. The recommendation for ED on frequency is 1 MHz. The energy level is listed in mj and not w/cm^2. The setting they list is 5 mj. Do you know what that converts to in w/cm^2? Also what would you say are settings that would be safe for PE? Thanks and please keep posting your incredibly helpful research.


Regener8

Originally Posted by golfnut48
Kyrpa- thanks for your in depth research and understanding of US for PE. I just purchased a US device that came with a recommended setting for ED but not PE. The device has adjustments for frequency and energy levels. The recommendation for ED on frequency is 1 MHz. The energy level is listed in mj and not w/cm^2. The setting they list is 5 mj. Do you know what that converts to in w/cm^2? Also what would you say are settings that would be safe for PE? Thanks and please keep posting your incredibly helpful research.

w/cm^2 is a power metric, whereas mJ is an energy metric which includes the time variable. There is no conversion from mJ to watts without knowing the time. I’m guessing that somewhere there is a suggestion of time period for that 5mJ setting.

I would also guess that any home device indicated for ED treatment is a very low power device. For reference… these guys are using about 1,200,000 mj of energy to reach the stable 43C temp. You need to figure out the power output of that device before you use it.

Originally Posted by golfnut48
Kyrpa- thanks for your in depth research and understanding of US for PE. I just purchased a US device that came with a recommended setting for ED but not PE. The device has adjustments for frequency and energy levels. The recommendation for ED on frequency is 1 MHz. The energy level is listed in mj and not w/cm^2. The setting they list is 5 mj. Do you know what that converts to in w/cm^2? Also what would you say are settings that would be safe for PE? Thanks and please keep posting your incredibly helpful research.

Very curious to know what machine do you have? 5mJ is 0.005 w/sec.
If you have some sort of low intensity pulsed ultrasound (LIPUS) option programmed in?
Those kind of treatments have been used before shockwave type of treatments came to the scene for ED.

We are running continuous ultrasound programs with much higher intensity needed for threrapeutical heating.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Hi Kyrpa, thank you for this awesome thread.

do you know if ithere is anyway to mute the machine? (it does a ton of noise when pressing a button)

Power Output

Tutt and Kyrpa.. Thanks for responding to my questions. The US device I purchased is from Cargando in China. The model is the SW10B Shockwave System. The energy range is from 60mJ to 120mJ. The frequency range is from 1 Hz to 16 Hz. I reviewed the manual that came with the device and see where the manual does offer this: AC 110VD/60Hz and Output Power of 230VA. Any suggestions?


Regener8

Originally Posted by Kyrpa
The main concern amongst the users seems to be the temperature management without invasive monitoring techniques.

“Without invasive monitoring techniques”

So beautifully worded…. and yet so understated.
LMAO!

I honestly mean that to be flattering Kyrpa, that was perfectly worded.


First redneck to say the phrase, “hold my beer while I go and microwave my unit for a bit”

Originally Posted by golfnut48
Tutt and Kyrpa.. Thanks for responding to my questions. The US device I purchased is from Cargando in China. The model is the SW10B Shockwave System. The energy range is from 60mJ to 120mJ. The frequency range is from 1 Hz to 16 Hz. I reviewed the manual that came with the device and see where the manual does offer this: AC 110VD/60Hz and Output Power of 230VA. Any suggestions?

You need to visit this site for the information you need:
http://shockwavefored.blogspot.com/2018/


Initial: 7” BPEL; 6” NBPEL; 5.25” - 5.5” MEG

Current: 7.5” BPEL; 7” NBPEL; 8.25” BPFSL; 6.25” - 6.5” MEG w/ c-ring.

Goal: Improved/consistent EQ while managing ED. Secondary: maintain current stats.

Originally Posted by Mike03016
“Without invasive monitoring techniques”

So beautifully worded…. and yet so understated.
LMAO!

I honestly mean that to be flattering Kyrpa, that was perfectly worded.

Thanks Mike,

I don´t know if the literal talent in single sentence can outweight the ambition in others.

I have to admit that reading some of my postings I feel ashamed by the language errors , but I promise to do my best to minimize them.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

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