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Using the ultrasound for therapeutic heat in PE

Originally Posted by golfnut48
Tutt and Kyrpa.. Thanks for responding to my questions. The US device I purchased is from Cargando in China. The model is the SW10B Shockwave System. The energy range is from 60mJ to 120mJ. The frequency range is from 1 Hz to 16 Hz. I reviewed the manual that came with the device and see where the manual does offer this: AC 110VD/60Hz and Output Power of 230VA. Any suggestions?

Okey golfnut,

You have perfect equipment on curing the ED. Unfortunately incapable on heating the penis.
Mike already guided you in to best available source of DIY shockwave therapy.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by eivbisi
Hi Kyrpa, thank you for this awesome thread.

do you know if ithere is anyway to mute the machine? (it does a ton of noise when pressing a button)

No I don´t. It must be the electronics used. The handheld machine I have is completely silent.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Growing4it
I just started a new cycle after taking a couple of weeks off. I was a little surprised I measured 1/4” shorter after the break, but my girth seemed to increase by 1/8”. It may have been the bundled stretches I started implementing at the end of the last cycle, but who knows…

I did see similar effect doing bundled stretching on BPFSL. It dropped few millimeters instantly when the girth gains were seen.
Continuing with normal straightforward stretches brought the flaccid stretched lenght back.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Fixing my ED with Shockwave Therapy

The link that 32quarters provided some incredible information and real life experience with shockwave treatments for ED. Thanks for the link and it answered my major question.. How do you convert from mJ to mJ/mm2? There is a table in one of the blogs that provides exactly what I was looking for. This now enables me to correctly set my SW device for future treatments. Thanks to the many great contributors on TP for all your help in my journey. I just got started, although a little late at 71 years old, however I’ve already been able to see results.


Regener8

Originally Posted by golfnut48
The link that 32quarters provided some incredible information and real life experience with shockwave treatments for ED. Thanks for the link and it answered my major question.. How do you convert from mJ to mJ/mm2? There is a table in one of the blogs that provides exactly what I was looking for. This now enables me to correctly set my SW device for future treatments. Thanks to the many great contributors on TP for all your help in my journey. I just got started, although a little late at 71 years old, however I’ve already been able to see results.

Good to hear you found what you needed.

I don´t think if you need any conversion to calculate any energy summary with such a focused beam application you will use.
I think that there you shoot certain count of pulses each carrying certain amount of energy in one session.

At your age it is actually possible to get few years younger with the exercises and the shockwaves.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Shockwave settings

Thanks for the help from Kyrpa and Tutt, I’m now treating at a much more efficacious setting than before. I’m excited to get better results with these settings. I’ll report back if future sessions make a difference.


Regener8

Ok so have ultrasound physio, using a 3 MHz transducer on continuous mode at an intensity of 2 w/cm2, using lots of ultrasound gel and making little circles going back and forth on the top of the shaft (dorsal side)for 10 min. During this time using X4 labs extender adjusting it every few minutes to increase tension. Skin feels cool/same temperature as before. Internal temperature feels same as before too. Basically nothing feels different. Am I doing something wrong or the only way to know if working is by using urethral temperature probe?

Originally Posted by undefi_bhbkn
Ok so have ultrasound physio, using a 3 MHz transducer on continuous mode at an intensity of 2 w/cm2, using lots of ultrasound gel and making little circles going back and forth on the top of the shaft (dorsal side)for 10 min. During this time using X4 labs extender adjusting it every few minutes to increase tension. Skin feels cool/same temperature as before. Internal temperature feels same as before too. Basically nothing feels different. Am I doing something wrong or the only way to know if working is by using urethral temperature probe?

Something is not right. There seems to be common thing when using it on extender. The temperature control is poor.
That is one reason I to went stretch over the leg or shaft against the leg. We are not stretching probe sticking out of the urethra regularly. They have been testing sessions only.

What you can do is to place your hand under the shaft and press the shaft between the transducer and you fingers.
Then focus only for the half of the shaft for 5 minutes. Moving slowly keeping the shaft pressed between.
You will find if that starts to heat that way .


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Heating problems with extender users

There seems to be a trend of extender users having poor heating experience with ultrasound despite the intensity they use. It is causing frustration in users after they have opposite experiences for some of the practitioners

Using hangers allowing the penis to be in tight contact with skin of the users limb are getting their shaft heated in significantly better rate, or at least they can feel the heat build up.
Placing one´s hand pressing the shaft against the transducer allows slightly better heat building experience as well.
It may well be the optimized transducer to shaft contact playing in our favor, but surely that can´t be all there is.

Ultrasound waves travel through the thin shaft so that the 3Mhz waves have lost only 50% of the intensity reaching the opposite site of the penis if the flaccid penis is 2,5 cm thick.
Using 1MHz application there is 60% of the intensity still left to reflect at certain percentage.
The out border at the surface of the skin does not absorb that still left intensity and certain amount of the intensity not reflected survives to been instantly attenuated exposed in the air.

When ultrasound reaches a boundary of two different medium here will be a reflection being relative to the difference of the acoustic impedance Z of the two substance.
Impedance is defined as Z = ρv, where ρ is the density of the medium (in kg/m3) and v is the speed of sound through the medium (in m/s). The units for Z are therefore kg/(m2 · s).

The intensity reflection coefficient a is defined as the ratio of the intensity of the reflected wave relative to the incident (transmitted) wave. This statement can be calculated as :

a = (Z2 - Z1 )^2 / (Z1 + Z2 )^2

The acoustic impedance of the air (Z2) being 420 (kg/(m2 · s)) and the skin (Z1) 1.99 × 10^6 (kg /(sec · m 2 )) the contrast being significant leads us to calculation:

a = (420- 1.99 × 10^6)^2 / (420- 1.99 × 10^6)^2
= -0.99957

Meaning 99.9 % of the intensity reflecting back against the beam of the ultrasound source.
The shape of the outer boundary of the skin acting as a lens reflecting all waves concentrating exactly against the most intense portion of the beam.
At the depth of 2.5 cm there is 1.0 w/cm^2 intensity still not attenuated in the tissue and this intense wave source counteracting the transducer beam intensity.

There have been discussion if the focusing multi wave collision actually would increase the intensity ,I do suspect opposite as a summary collision of the waves significantly attenuating the heating effect.

If we were at this point going increase the transducer intensity as a summary we would compensate the suspected loss.
But not to hurry there because it would lead us to unwanted adverse reactions via non-thermal effects of the ultrasound.

Standing waves induced cavitation is the thing we like to avoid as much as we can, and it is the resulting risk from the colliding waves.
Standing wave is a wave which oscillates in time but whose peak amplitude profile does not move in space.
“Standing waves occur when an ultrasound wave hits the interface between two different tissues, such as muscle and bone,
resulting in reflection of a percentage of the wave. The increased pressure produced in standing wave fields can cause transient cavitation and consequently free radical formation (Dyson et al, 1974)”

In our case skin and the air being the interfering pair of medium. Leaving these oscillating waves not traveling forward we lose the heating effect due absorption and what we get is the standing oscillating wave forming pressure pulses inside the tissue.

What we can do is remove the skin to air boundary by placing tiny piece of ours against or well formed, massive thigh and stretch it by hanger setup. Using conducting gel between there is no longer reflecting boundary left.
If we can´t leave the highly expensive extender of ours then other measures has to be taken producing same kind of outcome. There are ultrasound gel pads available to the thickness of 2cm to be placed firmly against the shaft.
There is also ultrasound standoffs available at many thickness. Ballistic gels or ultrasound phantom model gel also available, latter being really interesting product.

https://humimic.com/product/diy-ultrasound-phantom-gel/

If you are vegan you can brush a steak with a conductive gel and use it.

In conclusion there have been Manko showing increased urethral temperature for air exposed shaft.
My experiences with dual transducer set up suggest that placing opposing the identical waves, the heating effect diminishing and directing them on the same spot at lesser than 90 degrees amplifying the heating impact.
There have been studies published with opposing transducers resulting standing waves and cavitation.

Attached Images
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START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Originally Posted by Kyrpa

At the depth of 2.5 cm there is 1.0 w/cm^2 intensity still not attenuated in the tissue and this intense wave source counteracting the transducer beam intensity.

If the ransducer is producing 2.0 w/cm^2 of course.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Yep so to confirm I kept everything the same (continuous wave, 3 MHz, 2 w/cm2 and used my hand to press the dorsal side into the probe head and got great heat results in under 5 minutes. I could even feel the heat on the fingers as well. The contact must be 100% between your unit, the gel, and the probe otherwise air acts as a perfect barrier and the energy is lost (my guess in a less mathematical way). I think with extending the penis becomes too cylindrical to achieve the contact necessary (my guess).

So protocol is what now, heat for 10 min, manual/hang for 20 min, then ADS? Any on/off days from this or can do daily?

Overall thanks for all the help and advice!

Originally Posted by undefi_bhbkn
Yep so to confirm I kept everything the same (continuous wave, 3 MHz, 2 w/cm2 and used my hand to press the dorsal side into the probe head and got great heat results in under 5 minutes. I could even feel the heat on the fingers as well. The contact must be 100% between your unit, the gel, and the probe otherwise air acts as a perfect barrier and the energy is lost (my guess in a less mathematical way). I think with extending the penis becomes too cylindrical to achieve the contact necessary (my guess).

So protocol is what now, heat for 10 min, manual/hang for 20 min, then ADS? Any on/off days from this or can do daily?

Overall thanks for all the help and advice!

Thank you for the feedback and congrats for finding the way.
You summarised it well. The contacth patch should be perfect for the radiating area of the transducer.

Keep off days from the heating. 3 days workouts 2 off have been working well now for few already.


START 18/13.15 cm Jul 24th 18 (7.09/5.18") NOW 22.5/15.2 cm Fer 12th 20 (8.86/5.98") GOAL 8.5"/ 6"

When connective tissue is stretched within therapeutic temperatures ranging 102 to 110 F (38.9- 43.3 C), the amount of structural weakening produced by a given amount of tissue elongation varies inversely with the temperature. This is apparently related to the progressive increase in the viscous flow properties of the collagenous tissue when it is heated. (Warren et al (1971,1976)

Even when stretched, the shaft takes on a slightly flattened shape when the sound head is applied. Coupling the shaft to the thigh or palm is likely the cheapest and easiest method to ensure wavefront continuation, precisely to avoid the standing wave and cavitation issues Kyrpa mentioned. If the shaft is in direct contact with the thigh (indexed with US gel) I think there is still risk that superficial thigh tissues reach >45C before the penis reaches 43C, especially with 1Mhz frequency. Using my fingers and/or palm to oppose the wave certainly results in that experience.

I would suggest using the 2cm gel standoffs with a backing medium to allow power increase without risk of cavitation. I would also be interested in the results of supporting the ventral shaft with a slightly convex polished aluminum sheet or pipe and indexed with US gel. Essentially like a gentle fulcrum. Theoretically, this would aid in reflecting the energy back into the shaft but not directing it back to the sound head. With the proper radius, much of the interference would be perpendicular and increase the effective power, much like running two sound heads angled perpendicular to each other.

I would say that overall I’m actually most in favor of passing the most uniform wave pattern possible completely through the shaft and into an absorptive medium on the other side. Provided ample power from the sound head to allow us to simply dump off 60% of it.

Do any members here have extensive experience in generating high frequency electromagnetic fields? I could use some guidance on prototyping a radio frequency device.

So after coming off of a week recovery from an injury, I’ve lost some BPFSL of about 0.4 CM but I wanted to know from others of the following.

1. Since I don’t have a thermometer to test the internal urethra, does everyone go based on time of 8 - 10 minutes OR go based on feel? For me, when I get to the point where the heat becomes unbearable, I assume that I have hit the right heat temperature internally so then I rotate to another area.

2. Has anyone tested or figured out a way to use the Ultrasound on the Suspensory Ligament since that is what is key to unlocking some easy gains?


Current: BPEL - (Before 6.8' - 7') (Now 7' - 7.25')

Current: MSEG - 4.80' - 5.2'

Goal: 9x6

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